The need to fill the void of ignorance

Originally posted by hawkiye

Can you prove what salt taste like?

Some things cannot be proven by outside observation. They must be experienced or tasted.

Doesn't mean those things are proven universally. I can't prove that salt tastes only one certain way because it might taste a different way to someone else. That's how perception works. The guy I've been arguing with seems to think he knows that his version of reality is an absolute truth, but your salt analogy actually challenges that. Can he prove that his perception of reality is the reality for everyone? Absolutely not.

reply to post by Condemned0625


True in a sense but all who have tasted salt know that is has taste even if filtered through thier perception. Where as someone who has never tasted it might say there is no taste and no one can know the taste. It might not be a perfect correspondence however I think it makes the point.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

It's quite the predicament, but I don't think that the act of murder can be rationalized away nor justified by one's own anger, that's insane.

Do you know what that statement is? It's called an opinion. I've called you out on that several times but you failed to admit that your opinions are not factual and cannot be demonstrated.

It's interesting the lengths to which some will go to evade accountability for their actions. We all sin, or have sinned in some way or another, and this is why repentance relative to the Absolute is so vitally important.

Sin is a concept. You just keep bringing up conceptual beliefs that can't be proven. So, repentance relative to the "absolute", you say? What is this "absolute" you speak of and why do you believe it's important to ask of its forgiveness?

You're talking about something that sounds very similar to a god, which is a concept itself that has never been proven either.

The Universe is conceptual the same as our reality. Reason being: Consciousness is the root of energy. The Absolute or Infinite is directly responsible for how things function via myriad proxies or vessels. Being the vessels in this outfit we would need to search out both integrity and resolve by drawing from common law built into the system.

It's the equivalent of being handed a controller during the middle of a video game you know nothing about. Your ability to recall from experience and feel out levels gives you a heads-up chance. Understanding how to win over the system... Well, God knows God. Perhaps we'll have to involve a considerable amount of proxies.

reply to post by Americanist


How is consciousness the root of energy? Does nuclear fusion have a conscious? The universe is what it is. It can be conceptualized, but the fact that it is the collection of all things in existence still remains. That is a logical absolute that is not contingent upon observance by minds. If someone else objects and claims that the universe is merely a dream or illusion, well then you tell me if you can see the problem.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

It's quite the predicament, but I don't think that the act of murder can be rationalized away nor justified by one's own anger, that's insane.

Do you know what that statement is? It's called an opinion. I've called you out on that several times but you failed to admit that your opinions are not factual and cannot be demonstrated.

Sadly, it only gets demontrated to the one who was killed, from their perspective, which is why I asked you to try to see it from his POV, the one murdered.

reply to post by Condemned0625

If someone else objects and claims that the universe is merely a dream or illusion, well then you tell me if you can see the problem.

How about rather dreams and illusion are part of the universe? Everything has consciousness on some level it is what animates the universe. How are the electrons flying around the nucleus inside a rock? To see everything in terms of our current perspective is quite a limited view don't you think?

reply to post by hawkiye


Subatomic particles don't need to be conscious to perform their functions. You're talking about something that's not even in the realm of science. That's like saying my keyboard has a consciousness...

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by Americanist

 

How is consciousness the root of energy? Does nuclear fusion have a conscious? The universe is what it is. It can be conceptualized, but the fact that it is the collection of all things in existence still remains. That is a logical absolute that is not contingent upon observance by minds. If someone else objects and claims that the universe is merely a dream or illusion, well then you tell me if you can see the problem.

I'll put it a slightly different way... The root of energy is a basic schematic denoting consciousness. The Universe is an assembly. You've spun your words into a paradox. Name anything absolute outside your own perception.

I didn't say the Universe is a dream or illusion. I reason it has a defined structure, programming language, and overall purpose for playing.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Sure, I can see it from their point of view (the victims), but I can also see the assailant's point of view. Neither of them are universally right nor universally wrong, but that principle applies to the individual and his/her perception of it. If it's true to them, it is merely true to them and anyone else who agrees with them. No "law of life" states that murder is wrong. I already explained this to you several times and I'm getting tired of lecturing. If you don't want to end the argument, I will. Goodbye.

reply to post by Americanist


Yes, but you need to realize what consciousness is.

Consciousness

1. the state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.

2. the thoughts and feelings, collectively, of an individual or of an aggregate of people: the moral consciousness of a nation.

3. full activity of the mind and senses, as in waking life: to regain consciousness after fainting.

4. awareness of something for what it is; internal knowledge: consciousness of wrongdoing.

5. concern, interest, or acute awareness: class consciousness.

6. the mental activity of which a person is aware as contrasted with unconscious mental processes.

Non-biological processes, such as energy and motion, are not conscious. You're using the term 'consciousness' out of context.

I think the universe is "run" from the POV of a single, non-locally distributed photon, which always knows everything in eternity, from all angles and perspectives, precisely because there is no such thing as time or causation from that POV. If we then were to introduce Wheeler's Delayed choice experiment, and view it from within the frame of a Monistic Idealism (as opposed to Materialist Monist - mattter alone is primary), then what emerges from that as well, also points to the importance, at the very deepest levels, to both forgive and seek forgiveness. Once "grokked" by the Akashic Field or Zero Point Field (Absolute) then whatever isn't fruitful is cast away, and everything learned, stored up, either as negative karma, or as treasure in heaven, in the causeless, fully informed infinite domain of all possibility, as it actualizes, and reboots in eternity (discontinuous). The implications of this for the human being are profound and validate much of the ancient wisdom (wisdom of the ages). It takes the golden rule and the phi ration extension, to a whole new level! And it's here, through the present moment in eternity (once forgiven, in repentance), that we may be found again, in eternity, as we truly are, cleansed of karma, for which, symbolically, only requires out feet (walk). To me this is significant, this singularity of light and love and absolute perfection, awareness, justice AND mercy, and only there in what is righteous, or simply put good, is anything of value stored up or harvested, and everything else, including all the hatred, the jealousy, the violence, all the hurt in the world, the sorrowful absurdity let us call it, until at last we FIND what is a worthwhile or wholly just pursuit, and there's no evil there, only enjoyment, friendship, humour, and love, and mercy, tenderness, kindness, even the willingness to carry those burdens on our fellow man's behalf when he commiserates with us.

It is said that when we commiserate with our neighbor and he thanks us, he is kind hearted, but if he scorns us, he is hard hearted.

Therefore, if I've come across harsh, I apologize wholeheartedly, and I pray, and experience, and know (felt experience) that the love of God abounds in ways that we cannot possibly even begin to imagine.

Love,

Rob

Forgive me, for getting mad at you, because of your avatar, or your belief in unbelief, or based on my past activities at alt.satanism, I'm sorry. I hated you, judged you. I was a hipocrite in that area, that was my own blindspot, because I already know, in advance, how much you hate me, as a Christian! It's kind of a defence mechanism to a degree.

But I will INSIST that there IS something going on, of which we don't even have a CLUE, but that is nevertheless real, and formative and creative - so me I just want to get with the flow of that, the flow of life, somehow, (authentically inauthentic) and while I'm at it, point the way for my fellow man no matter who he is and no matter what he may or may not have done, and I've had murder convict friends myself, I can love anyone, and I am not afraid of them. I believe in the love i KNOW it to be true. To me, it is the ONLY thing, in the final analysis, which ISN'T absurd, or maybe it is that it isn't..

I've caught a glimps of a new space of bright hope and possibility for our collective future, a taste, many of us have, there is no denying it.

WHAT precisely it is, we are not entirely sure yet, but all the clues are stacking up in favour of some sort of astonishing discovery, about our very selves and yes, the nature of the universe, the law of life and love, the whole kit and caboodle, that's the unknown unknown realm of absolute novely, which is the only possible creative space, of the eternally unfolding present moment of now.

Phew!

Sorry for rambling..

Best Regards (and prayers)

With Love,

Rob

P.S. So you see, there's no need to kill me now, because I love you!

I listened to my teachings, remembered and recognized my error, while sumitting myself and my expression to a higher power in THIS case the reader, here at ATS (you're IT btw "thou art that" as are we all in the end).

Interesting discussions as always..

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by Americanist

 

Yes, but you need to realize what consciousness is.

Consciousness

1. the state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.

2. the thoughts and feelings, collectively, of an individual or of an aggregate of people: the moral consciousness of a nation.

3. full activity of the mind and senses, as in waking life: to regain consciousness after fainting.

4. awareness of something for what it is; internal knowledge: consciousness of wrongdoing.

5. concern, interest, or acute awareness: class consciousness.

6. the mental activity of which a person is aware as contrasted with unconscious mental processes.

Non-biological processes, such as energy and motion, are not conscious. You're using the term 'consciousness' out of context.

I use the term as a collective knowing. A state of infinite being. Full intellect or activity. I should have known this would fall into semantics. Fortunately, the term consciousness still fits the bill.

reply to post by Americanist


Infinity is a concept and cannot be reached. Infinity is an ongoing process that never ends, it cannot be obtained by anyone or anything because it does not consist of a specific value or amount. An "infinite being" cannot exist and nothing can reach infinity. Your statements don't make any sense at all.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by Americanist

 

Infinity is a concept and cannot be reached. Infinity is an ongoing process that never ends, it cannot be obtained by anyone or anything because it does not consist of a specific value or amount. An "infinite being" cannot exist and nothing can reach infinity. Your statements don't make any sense at all.

There's a literal loop hole in your statement further described as: Perpetual frames of reference recycling as a constant function of present tense. Imagine the entire Universe was your new HDTV. The TV cycles information at a particular refresh rate based on the technology at the time. First off, eliminate time from the equation. Secondly, understand these frames of reference are set in an endless loop creating Infinity. Last but not least, assembling as a collective the aforementioned frames truly defines what "this" is.

Synonyms: everlasting, foreverness, eternity, perpetuity

reply to post by Americanist


There is no loop. I am simply telling you that infinity is NOT a value and it CANNOT be reached. No matter how high or far you go, the number will continuously rise forever. If you start from 0 and reach 999 quintrillion * 999 sextillion to the power of Google, you still have an infinity to go if you're attempting to "reach" infinity. Do you understand now? This is getting #&%!ing ridiculous.

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by Americanist

 

There is no loop. I am simply telling you that infinity is NOT a value and it CANNOT be reached. No matter how high or far you go, the number will continuously rise forever. If you start from 0 and reach 999 quintrillion * 999 sextillion to the power of Google, you still have an infinity to go if you're attempting to "reach" infinity. Do you understand now? This is getting #&%!ing ridiculous.

Infinity is not a numeric value or nothing of the sort. It's a loop. It's the same loop that creates black holes from two opposing magnetic fields driven to a head. The only thing ridiculous here is your inability or unwillingness to comprehend anything beyond www.merriam-webster.com....

All I've seen you do is reach for definitions embedded in a language crafted to fit a vast majority of people. By your own logic those definitions must be opinions as well. You starting to get this? I've reached Infinity because I'm a part of it. My mass assembles and reassembles right along side our planet, our solar system, this galaxy, and everything above and below my perceived spectrum. We are refresh rates simply put. This is a concept of Infinity you might try to wrap your mind around at some point.

reply to post by Americanist


Yes, it's a loop, but you said there was a "loop" in my statement and did not elaborate any further. Still, you're contradicting yourself when you admit that it has no numerical value and then assert that it can be reached because you're part of it. I'm not arguing from opinion; I'm arguing from facts and logical absolutes. Infinity is the concept of a value greater than any finite numerical value. It can also be a dimension or quantity of sufficient size to be unaffected by finite variations, which is the way it is used in certain aspects of physics. At least I know what I'm talking about when it comes to terminology.

I don't need you to act like a prick and pretend that you know more with some sort of philosophical argument that has no basis on evidence. Apologetics is a good term to describe the position you're asserting. All you've done so far is presenting uncritical acceptance of a concept or theory that you have not proven.

reply to post by Condemned0625


Don't get your back up here, I'm not taking any more runs at you.

But isn't there a problem from the present moment perspective then, relative to what it's coming out of, and moving in to?

There can be no present moment, sandwiched in infinity, since it's impossible to count down from infinity via any series, to one.

Life is a flow then, a process, and a creative one at that, but creativity, to be creative, must also be novel, fresh.

The whole notion of an arrow of time is flawed, right from the get go.

There is no time, and the phenomenal world of causation is an illusion, but a very persistent one.

I purport that all there is is spirit and truth, nothing else, and everything is an eternal manfestation of that, of which we are an integral part.

an eternal, evolutionary recurrance, whereby not one thing is left out, everything processed, as the very supply, through learning, of what is formative, and functional, and therefore constructive or creative, and helpful, fun.

In the space of nothing and absolute UNcertainty (an open mind), nothing else arises BUT fun, love, mutuality, joy, creativity, recreation, play. At least that's what was there for me when I became present to nothing, to the void, just spirit and truth inspiring love. I think it's the very reason everything was made.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You're starting to sound like a solipsist. Please, spare your argument for another time with someone else. Cognitive relativism shouldn't be so hard for you and Americanist to understand, but apparently it is. This A Priori argument has gone way too far and has become too ridiculous for my standards, ridiculous to the point of rendering this entire thread off-topic and pointless. Nice job.

reply to post by Condemned0625

It IS ridiculous, yes, but it's not unreasonable. I know about nothing, and there's something there.