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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by kimar
The concept of rights and what they are differ over time and space (geography). For example, I think it is fair to say that most Americans feel that they have a right to own a gun. But if we were to go back to Ancient Greece, the right to own a gun would never have been heard of, simply because guns did not exist.
This is why the 2nd Amendment is worded the way it is, and at no point mentions guns. The right to keep and bear arms was understood in Ancient Greece just the same is at is understood today...at least by those not so intent on convolution.
I wasn't referring specifically to the constitution. I was showing that different people in different time periods and cultures have differing views about what rights are. Most Americans today believe that it is a right to own a gun. This belief cannot be applied to all people (because guns did not always exist) and might not be the case in the future (for any number of reasons).
Originally posted by Alethea
Actually, he was taught correctly. Rights are privileges granted by the government. There are certain "rights" that were granted to you by your Creator....carrying a gun was not one of them.
I'm explicitly referring to the right to own a gun. I'm not talking about the right to bear arms. I'm not talking about the right to self defence. Most Americans believe that there exists the right to own a gun. This right cannot be applied to all people throughout all time because guns have not always existed.
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by kimar
I'm explicitly referring to the right to own a gun. I'm not talking about the right to bear arms. I'm not talking about the right to self defence. Most Americans believe that there exists the right to own a gun. This right cannot be applied to all people throughout all time because guns have not always existed.
There is no difference between the right to own a gun and the right to keep and bear arms, they are the same right. It matters not what "most Americans" believe, nor is it clear that you have the pulse of what "most Americans" believe. What is a right, is a right, regardless of popular consensus, or "conventional wisdom".
Whether it is purposely, or inadvertently, you are attempting to convolve gun ownership as a separate right from that of the right to keep and bear arms. Regardless of your intent, the only consequence of such an argument is confusion. Rights are not confusing, and attempts at making it appear as if they are do nothing for the defense and maintenance of individual rights.
Others will whole heartedly disagree and spew "personal responsibility" bs.
I believe with everything in me that health care is a fundamental human right...
...and that good societies respect and promote this by providing each other this right.
It would be nice if it was as simple as stating that "a right is a right."
Is marrying the person who you love a right?
Tell that to homophobes or to the elite in Victorian society.
Is being free from slavery a right?
I sure as hell think so. The founding fathers didn't.
Rights only exist when they are practiced and acknowledged. Otherwise, it's just a word.
Rights are Special Privileges the Government gives you.
We all have the need to survive, but to do that in our large communities some guidelines and regulation for acceptable behaviour is needed. The whole thing falls into chaos otherwise.
This is where we disagree. As I have stated, I believe that rights have evolved, been won and lost over time. I believe with everything in me that health care is a fundamental human right and that good societies respect and promote this by providing each other this right. Others will whole heartedly disagree and spew "personal responsibility" bs. It would be nice if it was as simple as stating that "a right is a right." Is marrying the person who you love a right? Tell that to homophobes or to the elite in Victorian society. Is being free from slavery a right? I sure as hell think so. The founding fathers didn't.
A right only exists when it is practiced and acknowledged. Otherwise, it's just a word
To add: I do not entirely agree with the corrections. I believe that We the People are the protectors of our rights from an oppressive government. Whether we have an oppressive government I leave to your discernment.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
The New American Pie ... The Day The Freedom Died
Mar 13, 2009 9:07 PM
Walton and Johnson introduced Joe Roy's version of American Pie on their show March 11th 2009 and I couldn't help but share. Listen to the lyrics and the wonderful talent of Mandeville, Louisiana's Joe Roy. www.waltonandjohnson.com www.garageband.com/artist/jroystudios Thanks to others online and on youtube who posted pictures and flag clips for the background. This was thrown together in 20 minutes of editing and encoding so not the best but the song is what counts here. Enjoy.
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by ownbestenemy
True or False: All people in the world have the same rights you do.