Portugal Next Nation to need Bailout

Portugal Next Nation to need Bailout

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Fears that Portugal was heading towards a bailout, like Greece and Ireland before, were acute in early trading in Europe. At one stage, the yield on Portugal's ten-year bonds rose nearly half a percentage point to 7.18 percent, before falling back to 6.94 percent on speculation that the European Central Bank was propping up Portugal's bond market -- buying bonds helps lower the yield.

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So, looks like another european nation is about to fall victim to the world wide finantial crisis. I wonder, how far this will go until the World Bank, IMF and the EU run out of steam, they can't bail each other out forever. This can only go on for so long until it starts to really effect the US in a big way. I can't see the UK stand up against this tide of debt for too long.

I'm jumping on my soap box a little now, but I think this my be used as a great excuse to get the UK out of the EU for good, thank god they kept the pound sterling as the official currency of the UK. I have relitives over there and I fear for them now. What do you guys make of this?

NOTE: the additional link shows how japan is wadeing into this mess.

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reply to post by Obinhi


just another nation putting it`s hands into another peoples pockets and sticking us with their problem-more damm taxes. when are the governments of this brain dead world going to wake up and smell the coffee pot that is burned beyond repair -aka the banking system.
borrow for a mortgage and pay them back 200% in interest and the principal.
borrow a thousand on the plastic ,pay minimum and repayment is 12 years time.at $20 month interest .
common factors ; compound interest is compounding the ability to pay back their BLOOD MONEY.
the law used to call this LOAN SHARKING .
but it is an institution for raping the people and governments of our world !!!
how else do you enslave the worlds population than to tell them to believe in their false god MONEY .
and so doing you control the the masses of ignorant slaves .
WAKEUP?

www.dn.pt

The Portuguese economy will contract by 1.3% this year and grow 0.6% in 2010, in agreement with the Winter Bulletin from the Bank of Portugal, that, in this way, echoes previous projections.

Consumo privado cai 2,7%, inflação chega aos 2,7%

...Private consumerism falls 2.7%, inflation reaches 2.7%

Portugal vai precisar de ajuda do BCE até ao final de 2012

...Portugal will be needing help from the ECB (EU Central Bank) by the end of 2012.
**A little ambiguity in this statement, "até" could also be understood as "until" in English, not "by"...but I don't have the context.

There's plenty on Portuguese newspaper websites, but it's all in Portuguese, so some of you who know about this might not understand or easily translate the information. I know Portuguese but not that much about economics...Is this above information bad?

reply to post by picrat


I kind of see where you are comming from , but if you look at the rioting going on when a euro zone nation announces it will be cutting public services and its frighting. I wonder how some of the people in europe think the government manages to pay for council houseing and the like.

As for taxation in the US, we really have it quite good for the services we provide. I cannot seem to find it, but can anyone tell me if a industrialized nation has defalted on its debts yet? I remember reading about nations defaulting on the national debt and not understanding why it was a bad thing in school, now I see the chaos it brings to the world.

Originally posted by Sphota
www.dn.pt

The Portuguese economy will contract by 1.3% this year and grow 0.6% in 2010, in agreement with the Winter Bulletin from the Bank of Portugal, that, in this way, echoes previous projections.

Consumo privado cai 2,7%, inflação chega aos 2,7%

...Private consumerism falls 2.7%, inflation reaches 2.7%

Portugal vai precisar de ajuda do BCE até ao final de 2012

...Portugal will be needing help from the ECB (EU Central Bank) by the end of 2012.
**A little ambiguity in this statement, "até" could also be understood as "until" in English, not "by"...but I don't have the context.

There's plenty on Portuguese newspaper websites, but it's all in Portuguese, so some of you who know about this might not understand or easily translate the information. I know Portuguese but not that much about economics...Is this above information bad?

Ya, I am only a layman in economics and by no means an expert on the subject, but anytime a social welfare state hits inflation wilst also hitting a slump in spending by the consumer the government will take in less and be able to buy less with the tax money they do take in. I am not sure how inflation hurts nations on the Euro as the currency is connected to a number of economies and not just the one. I have heard stuff about Spain being the next nation to go if the Portuguese fail. Still looking for the links.

Originally posted by Sphota

The Portuguese economy will contract by 1.3% this year and grow 0.6% in 2010, in agreement with the Winter Bulletin from the Bank of Portugal, that, in this way, echoes previous projections.

A little correction that quote should be like this:

The Portuguese economy will contract by 1.3% this year and grow 0.6% in 2012, in agreement with the Winter Bulletin from the Bank of Portugal, that, in this way, echoes previous projections.

One thing I noticed is that Portugal has been the target of many rumours, and the markets react more to the rumours than to the real situation, and it looks like someone is trying to force Portugal to get external (IMF) help.

But I do not really understand how the whole world finance system works.

reply to post by ArMaP


totally agree with ArMaP.

i am living in Central Portugal and it is definitely the rumours that are causing the damage, Spain is
in a far worse state financially than Portugal.

but as for on the ground ...food and fuel is sooo high right now. especially cheese for some reason .....the price has gone from €2.50 one and a half years ago to €5.40 now.

snoopyuk

reply to post by Obinhi


HERE IN THE GREAT WHITE NORTH OUR SERVICES ARE BEING CUT TO THE BAREST OF MINIMAL S , all the while the bankers are grossing a basic wage in the millions per year .and the average workers wage is about $ 100,000 of this yearly amount . yet the banks service charges have gone through the roof-and the ones that loss the most are those who have the least to lose . for instance minimal $1,000.00 in your account at all times and you don`t pay them their fee of $1.00 per use -but those who can`t keep money in the banks get raped every month on all the basics that we take for granted,up here it is the disabled ,welfare ,mothers allowance ,unemployed and so on. up here by law they are not allowed to have money in the bank-and we call this freedom.
as to the states being in such great shape you really need to look deeper into the facts as to your total nations debt,not just the capitals but all levels of governments and their systems .this your nations debt is so great that there is not enough money in the entire world to pay it off-so where did all of this IMAGINARY DEBT or CASH materialize from. IT DOES NOT EXIST other than in CYBERSPACE.but you are right in the fact that your services are quite good as long as you can afford to PAY FOR THEM in one way or another ,no cash no insurance too bad your on your own.
up here every thing that is government controlled or owned losses money and their debts keep growing as do our taxes so just what are we paying them for other than SERVICES NOT RENDERED.

if those banks ever call in your nations debt your net worth is absolutely NOTHING
remember the dirty 30`s the next crash will make it look like a kids toy ,all compliments of the banks running their little con game on us all.
and what have our governments done to stop this the rape of our peoples and our treasuries -NOTHING as those the so called men in power are nothing more than bankers in disguise ,remember most of them are all schooled in economics--AKA BANKING.
AND WE ELECTED THEM TO REPRESENT WHO AS IT IS NOT WE THE PEOPLE THAT THEY REPRESENT IT IS CORPORATE GREED AND PROFITS. this is all put ahead of our best interest`s ,so where is the governmental control`s and laws to protect us the people from them and their madness . there is nothing in place . last little recession we the people lost millions of our life savings and got nothing for it not even the right to take them to court to reclaim our losses -op`s that's right it was our loss and their gain .and yet they all came hat in hand crying poor boy to your GOVERNMENT`S and they got their palms greased well -on we the peoples DIME OR IS IT PENNY.
if they didn`t fail ,which they should have due to their gross mismanagement of the system that they created -all because they were giving out bad loans and CREDIT CARDS knowing full well that they were bad risks and we got stuck for their mess.
and yet all of the head bankers got their full bonuses and perks and wages while 20% OF THE WORLDS WORK FORCE IS NOW OUT OF WORK and most of the parts suppliers are now out of work .
HOW IN THE HELL DID THEY RECOVER -when we all lost so much.
that`s right the day that they announced to the world at 2 in the afternoon that we were in a recession ,those same lying thieving bankers had already done their DIRTIEST LITTLE DEED EVER. everyone who owns a CREDIT CARD + WAS PAYING 12% OR MORE COMPOUND INTEREST RATE HAD THEY INTEREST RATE BOOSTED BY 5% MORE COMPOUND INTEREST AT 9AM. 7 HOURS LATER THEY USED THE BIG R WORD TO THE WORLD.
what a way to take every body`s mind of off the act of rape that they pulled that morning and guess what. no one was told about it until your next bill came in.
PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE.

reply to post by picrat


I think I see what you are saying, but in futuer I would like it if you could keep your finger off the caps lock key... I kid, but seriously its kind of distracting.

On the other hand, I get so mad when I go one dollar over drawn and get hit with a 35 dollar fee! It makes me see read when I see my statement. They are so quick to take my money, but when I am owed money it seems to take 4-6 weeks you know?

As for Euorpe, it does seem like speculatiors are wrecking havoc on the entire economy overthere.Is there nothing that the governments can do about it over there?

reply to post by ArMaP


Basically governments ask permission to the Central Banks (which are international and private) , to print more money, or whatever money they need.

The country has to pay it all back with interest to the central bank, and if the country is unable to pay, then the country asks permission to print what they owe (with interests) plus what more they will need. And it goes on and on...

Simplifying, when a country needs to print money, some PRIVATE bank prints it out of thin air, and in the end the country has to pay it all back to the banks with interest. (ever heard the word SCAM?)


Sounds crazy? Yeah, and people still wonder why the world inflation is so high.

reply to post by Roufas


I am sure that is not how it works. First of all, most nations don't just up and print money. All of the videos you find of the tresury printing huge stacks of twenties? Thats because paper money wheres out at a very fast rate as opposed to coinage. Most, if not all, official government monitary transactions take place on the internet with vast fund transfers.

As for international finance, I did a little digging and this is what i came up with. When a nation needs funding above and beyond what it takes in from taxes, tariffs, and fees, it is able to raise capital by selling debt. Debt is sold by governments to private instutions and individuals in the form of bonds. If a government gets has a handle on the debt, the return (What you get back is intrest on your investment) will be low, somewhere in the 3% range. So a 100 dollar bond might earn your three dollars after the bond term is up, usually measured in years. If a nation is in trouble then the return on a bond goes up. In other words when people fear that the government may not be able to pay back the debt then the risk of the initial loan (The bond) goes up. As the risk creeps up, so does the return on the bond. At this point you get into the murky waters of speculation and reselling of bonds and it gets strange. NOTE: When people say China bought U.S. debt, they mean China got an ass load of bonds. As far as I can tell the Fed does the same thing.

If a national debt grows to the point where peoplefear that it can't be paid back then they may stop purchasing the governments bonds in the first place. As soon as the people stop buying government debt, a huge amount of money drys up. At this point you drift into the effects of national budgets which would cause me to type for several hours, and I am working on a thread about it now. Below are links about bonds, and bond markets.

Bond
Government Bond
National Debt

reply to post by Obinhi


I was just simplifying things, Im pretty sure all those pretty terminologies fit in the scam nicely.

G. Edward Griffin the author of The Creature from Jekyll Island, begs to differ! Thats a very long and needed read though, have fun!

You can think of it as central banking being the unlimited credit card of governments too, taxes goes mostly to pay the debts with banks as well.

reply to post by Obinhi


sorry for the caps lock -just emphasizing their stupidity.and points of fact.
SPECULATORS- such an interesting word .totally illegal by the way.
those who control the prices and markets on the false assumption that there is great profit to be made.oil is a great example as the price continues to go up as the supply taps are slowly being turned down ,and we all pay more for it.recent example up here pump price was $1.02 a litre price went up to $1.13 a litre in 2 jumps of $.05 + each time their excuse was that they were switching over to refine furnace oil for the cold season ,funny thing is that furnace oil is cheap and easy to make as it is not as refined as gasoline, and yet it is all refined at the same time from the same barrel of oil.by the way their barrel of oil is bought as 55 gallons per barrel not the 45 we all believe it to be.someone is helping to rape us all.
$35.00 -SERVICE CHARGE-for non sufficient funds,utterly ghastly.but have they told you that you can protect yourself and those that you love form this this legal theft of your hard earned money. you need to buy their service that they call -OVERDRAFT PROTECTION- also overpriced as are their other services that at one time were free to all . but they decided that their corporate profit had to be increased as much as possible so they decided to nickel and dime us all to death. now it is dollars and dollars for what . here in Canada the heads of most banks earn a wage over $10,000,000.oo a year each. someone has to pay for their greed and extravagant lifestyles and i guess they elected us to be the scapegoats to pay for it all .

reply to post by Obinhi


being as how our governments are supposedly elected by us for us and to represent us all as a nation -why don`t we all fix this problem of debt that all nations owe . simply why don`t we take away our governments blank checkbooks so that they can no longer increase the debt and they don`t get them back until [1] the nations debts on all levels are paid back in full and [2] they have money in the bank .without raising taxes world wide .
meaning no more money for their mindless arms races,no more money for museums no more for cultural crap no more for g8 or g20 and the list would be endless .no more millions going to help other nations for disaster relief because it never seems to get to where it is going nor is it used properly and this has happened after ever disaster even in the USA -Katrina.Haiti and so on . 30 to 50 percent of all that is donated goes to the payment of these so called charity's management teams and their wages . charity is charity it means freely given of goods or services.and yet the money that does get through does not seem to get to the people it usally ends up in the hands of the government of these lands ,their not starving and yet the people are .what is wrong with this picture.

in other words tighten your belts or get out of office as we the people can no longer afford your self serving screw-ups.

reply to post by Obinhi


it is interesting that you mentioned bonds here ,more commonly known as bondage or the age of bonds.
consider the fact that say 10 years ago you took out a bond at say 3% return rate less the governments cut of 30 to 50% of your capital gains tax you have incurred . where did all of this money come from to repay you and everyone else.taking into account that a bond is nothing more than a piece of paper that says you just took on a portion of the debt,whether it be government bond or bond market you just bought yourself a piece of their debt of all those companies that seem to continually be losing money ,this is why our national debts seem to continue to grow as nothing that you bought is used to pay down the debts ,instead it is used to go to the bank as more collateral to get more money loaned to the worlds governments.
so what happens when you go to cash it in other than the taxes and the government taking it`s cut to borrow more.
lets see they begin to sell more bonds to more suckers so that they can repay you the agreed amount ,meaning that those bonds all others are buying this year are to repay all those who are expecting to cash them in .talk about a shell game or stealing off of peter Paul and Mary to pay jack back.remember every year the government stands up and says how many million they need to sell that year is to repay everyone else and anything over is a bonus to borrow more with nothing in the bank to repay the banks ,if i ran my personal finances as bad as our governments do i`d be in jail. for fraud and theft .
so what are you doing investing in this con game for people.

Over a year ago people like Gerald Celente were listing the countries in order of their collapse based on the financial data available.

I believe that list was as follows:

Greece,
Ireland,
Portugal,
Spain,
England.

Portugal is next on the list.

The fact is that we were beyond the point of no return a long time ago. Governments around the world base their "projections" on what they know, but they also "massage" it and manipulate it to be positive in some way. Yet because they cannot include all the possible variables which might occur, they cannot take into consideration market fluctuations, corporate collapses, rising unemployment, inflation... Each thing affects another.

So (for example) if the government says things will improve over the next six months, that is being optimistic and overly positive to placate the people and the markets. The following week a corporation collapses and five thousand people are now unemployed. The debts of that corporation also trickle through the banking system. It affects the property they occupied, the people they employed, the financial institutions they used...
Confidence is also shaken in that industry and rumors of further collapse spread,

Above all, it should be remembered that these professionals in the IMF, World Bank, Central Banks and our governments never saw this coming.
Plenty of economists did. Those economists have been consistently right since this began, while we continue to follow the opinions of those who never saw this coming!
Where is the sense in that?
We believe and trust in people who were too incapable to see the obvious, and we continue to ignore those who were warning us about all these things before it happened.

I am always suspicious, but that tells me that this isn't accidental. These groups of "professionals" are either corrupt and this is a deliberate plan, or they are incapable of doing their job while the relative layman is far more experienced and should be in that position.

Every country seems to have economists and forecaster who managed to see this before it began. Why are they not advising their government and why are those governments continuing to trust the opinions of groups and organizations who are clearly either corrupt or completely inept?

Either way you look at it, we are on a path that is either intentional or we are being led by people incapable of foreseeing what needs to be foreseen. Both options lead to the same outcome; complete failure of currencies and what Mr. Celente already calls the "Greatest Depression".