Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

Originally posted by TheWill
Now I don't like Palin, largely because I've yet to agree with more than two consecutive words out of her mouth, but surely there comes a point where she has to be given a break?

She may be thicker than two short planks, she may have often bigoted views, but at worst she's a bit of a dim elitist.

laughing, great anology of Palin, I would like to add she is a dim elitist /was a high school cheerleader, likes attention star struct bimbo

reply to post by deanyo


I have seen that weak list more than a few times. There is only one gun reference and it is in the context of being met with knives so...yeah. Sure there is violent rhetoric on both sides but there is no comparison. AM radio is 90% right wing. Fox news gets the highest ratings. At the end of the day, listening to all that nonsense has my friends telling me how bad they wish someone would kill that Kenyan and save the US from socialism. You cannot find that kind of constant fear mongering, war mongering, type of attitude. I see these pictures of random folks with violent signs. Random people with no microphone or tv show or seat of power. Just people. They so little to sway me. The I see a protest from the right with these signs about watering the tree of liberty with blood. The difference? 1500 of the exact same sign professionally printed and distributed by corporate backers. There is a difference, a big difference.

The left has been saying it is getting too violent, it has to come down. The left is now saying, see it is just too damn violent, we need to stop this.

The right is saying, yeah well you guys did it too but we didnt notice until saturday when we started searching daily kos archives for examples of it.

See the difference I see?

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

So we're gonna blame Palin for the stupid, not to mention illegal, action of a relatively few blowhard idiots? What's new?

Are we? I do not believe I blamed Palin for anything in particular but I certainly feel that anyone with a national audience has some responsibility for the weakest minds that may be looking to them for advice. I feel people should be responsible for what they say and who they say it to.

No one forced these numb-skulls to make threats, or any other numb-skull that might voice antipathy/violence towards her.

Right, they might have just been stupid enough to think they were being told to though. After 12 hours a day hearing that Obama is a Kenyan socialist and revolution is needed, stupid people may do stupid things.

No one is to blame for these threats, old though they are, other than the person(s) who made them. Not Palin, not Limbaugh, not the liberal press, not talk radio, no one except the delusional sociopathic morons who make them...

So you do not feel that the things these people say have any power? I am curious why they say anything and why anyone listens then.

It's a sign of the times, I guess... We need a scapegoat to blame for the ills of the world...rather than blaming the actual perpetrators of that ill.

Do carry on...

Nice strawman but no. I blame a shooter for shooting people. I blame people like Beck and Palin and Angle for creating an atmosphere where a weak minded individual may take that to heart. I blame those people for not being able to discuss issues without mentioning the 2nd amendement as a solution for an unhappy turnout.

As far as Palin goes...

Would you call a dog a vandal for peeing on a lamp post, or would you say it's just being a dog?

The rhetoric, the spin, and everything else that goes on is just dogs being dogs.

It's naive to think that certain things said in the press don't have an effect on the "hard of sane" people in society, and it's equally naive to lay the blame squarely at one particular door.

It's so very easy to say that people are responsible for their own actions, and whilst in a sense it might be true, it's equally true to say that others influenced those actions with lies, rhetoric, and downright bullplop.

So, is a dog a dog, and is it just doing what comes naturally to it?

Or are there more sinister motives?

Originally posted by Sinnthia
Right, they might have just been stupid enough to think they were being told to though. After 12 hours a day hearing that Obama is a Kenyan socialist and revolution is needed, stupid people may do stupid things.

Is it possible for you to make a point without extreme hyperinflation? Nobody is subjected to 12 hours a day of "hearing that Obama is a Kenyan socialist and revolution is needed".

The fact is that we blame the individual for their actions, not political figures we disagree with. Unless Palin (or anyone else) makes an actual death threat, or directly suggests it (both illegal), there is nothing on which to blame Palin.

Politicians on both the left and right employ provocative rhetoric and should be permitted to exercise their free speech. We do not stifle free speech based upon the potential actions of the mentally ill.

Also, at what point does the left own up to their own provocative rhetoric? I recall the last two years the American left calling the people racist, violent, crazy, etc. all the while pushing through legislation unwanted by the people which primarily benefitted the left and empowered the government. Do you find it impossible that left wing politicians and celebrities can earn ire through their own behavior?

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Nice strawman but no. I blame a shooter for shooting people. I blame people like Beck and Palin and Angle for creating an atmosphere where a weak minded individual may take that to heart. I blame those people for not being able to discuss issues without mentioning the 2nd amendement as a solution for an unhappy turnout.

Is it really a strawman argument if democrats are quite guilty of using the same violent metaphors in their campaign ads? I think not.

Check this out if you haven't already seen it.

source

Democrat campaign poster from 2004 with bullseyes denoting "targeted Republicans".

Don't you realize that most people see posts like yours as nothing more than a pathetic attempt to use this tragedy to bash Palin yet another time.

Intellectually very weak and really very sick.

One more huge question for you and others here posting similar inflammatory things.

What if - God forbid - some member of ATS who likes to post the same kinds of things here that the AZ shooter posted on his websites reads threads like and including yours, and decides to go do something about it?

Are you going to take responsibility?

reply to post by budski


I agree. My problem is that I expect people that run for and even hold office to be better than dogs. I would likewise love to think that loud barking would not find an ear in lieu of intelligent discourse.

reply to post by centurion1211


Wow, one whole poster huh?
That evens with everything I said.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Is it possible for you to make a point without extreme hyperinflation? Nobody is subjected to 12 hours a day of "hearing that Obama is a Kenyan socialist and revolution is needed".

I never said anyone was subjected to it. Can you make a point without flat out lying?

The fact is that we blame the individual for their actions, not political figures we disagree with. Unless Palin (or anyone else) makes an actual death threat, or directly suggests it (both illegal), there is nothing on which to blame Palin.

I can blame him and I can say that Palin should stop talking the way she does. I am capable of having both opinions.

Politicians on both the left and right employ provocative rhetoric and should be permitted to exercise their free speech. We do not stifle free speech based upon the potential actions of the mentally ill.

Strawman. There is a huge difference between trying to stifle free speech and just asking Palin to speak like a grownup.

Also, at what point does the left own up to their own provocative rhetoric? I recall the last two years the American left calling the people racist, violent, crazy, etc. all the while pushing through legislation unwanted by the people which primarily benefitted the left and empowered the government. Do you find it impossible that left wing politicians and celebrities can earn ire through their own behavior?

You mean while the right was saying that our president was a Kenyan Socialist bent on destroying this country and needed to be stopped as in watering the tree of liberty, those people got called violent, crazy, racists? The hell you say.

Originally posted by centurion1211

One more huge question for you and others here posting similar inflammatory things.

What if - God forbid - some member of ATS who likes to post the same kinds of things here that the AZ shooter posted on his websites reads threads like and including yours, and decides to go do something about it?

Are you going to take responsibility?

As soon as you see Sinnthia's Alaska on TLC, maybe. When I get a golden microphone and a share in every radio market in the nation, possible. Perhaps when I can truthfully call myself Sinnthianews, the most trusted name in news, watched by millions. Maybe just maybe then. I believe I have been quite clear in that my issue is with those in office and access to a national microphone. I hardly qualify. If you want to just trade random nuts for random nuts, this will go on for a while.

You let me know if you ever have a friend turn to you in conversations and say "You know what I learned from watching Sinnthia today?"

Then you can ask that question again.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by budski

 

I agree. My problem is that I expect people that run for and even hold office to be better than dogs. I would likewise love to think that loud barking would not find an ear in lieu of intelligent discourse.

Yes, but we're talking about the electorate here - and over time, spin rather than truth has become the order of the day, which has led to wars of words rather than coherent policy statements.

It's no longer about what a party does, it's about attacking the other party to deflect away from ones own shortcomings, and blinding with rhetoric rather than lending substance.

In short, the political system of many countries is a huge mess - and while people like palin and bush can get into any kind of public office, it's going to stay that way.

The power belongs to the people, not corporations, at least in theory, but it's no longer that way (if it ever was) and the power grabs become more naked and obvious at every election.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Wow, one whole poster huh?
That evens with everything I said.

If you are subjecting yourself to 12 hours of this a day (your words), you could have at least taken the time to read the entire link. More than one democrat poster was shown.

I'm calling on you to produce even one direct link to show the shooter even knew about the Palin PAC poster, or was any kind of follower of Palin's speeches or writings. Anything that would conclusively show that Palin influenced him to commit these crimes. Without such evidence, you stand guilty as charged of using this tragedy for yet another round of Palin bashing.

reply to post by centurion1211


You don't think she deserves to be bashed?

You think she is a paragon of virtue and should be held up as a poster girl for everything that is good about America?

Then again, I seem to remember that you were a big supporter of shrub, his lies, his stupidity and his warmongering.

Nuff said.

The article is 2 1/2 years old. It was clearly written by someone overseas with Obama-goggles on (like beer goggles) during Obama's rise to power. It even quotes Michelle Obama being stupid and supposedly saying something like 'why do they want people to hate us'. It's a hit piece without merit written by left wing obamabot foreigners. Obama is capable of getting enough death threats on his own .. Palin has nothing to do with it.

Gawd ... Palin isn't POTUS material but the rabid way these yahoos pin EVERYTHING on her is pathetic.

From the article

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

and....

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.

So, you have Palin (at the start of what would be a career of rallies) "inspiring" people in such a way McCain told her to stfu, most likely because he didn't want to be held responsible. And the secret service adding 1 + 1 and realizing that after a Palin rally/speaking engagement they received a measurable amount of more than the normal amount of threats. First, I must say, what is a normal amount of threats? It baffles me that anyone would receive death threats daily.

It wasn't coincidental, it was a measurable statistic that they must take seriously. The article also says that at the specific rally cited (where McCain told her to stop) the crowd was chanting to kill Obama and that he is terrorist.

What exactly is she "inspiring" people to do? I have never attended a Palin rally, nor will I, not necessarily because of this, although I find it shocking, just can't stand her.

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by centurion1211

One more huge question for you and others here posting similar inflammatory things.

What if - God forbid - some member of ATS who likes to post the same kinds of things here that the AZ shooter posted on his websites reads threads like and including yours, and decides to go do something about it?

Are you going to take responsibility?

As soon as you see Sinnthia's Alaska on TLC, maybe. When I get a golden microphone and a share in every radio market in the nation, possible.

You're already all over ATS spreading this garbage.

Anyone with a PC and an internet connection can "be subjected" to it.

Your "audience" could already be in the hundreds of thousands depending on how many people read your posts.

Why would you also need a TV show?

Guilty as charged ...

Originally posted by Sinnthia

I never said anyone was subjected to it. Can you make a point without flat out lying?

My apologies. You said they were hearing it 12 hours a day.

I can blame him and I can say that Palin should stop talking the way she does. I am capable of having both opinions.

You answered dishonestly. You blame Palin for the actions others could take based on her rhetoric.

Strawman. There is a huge difference between trying to stifle free speech and just asking Palin to speak like a grownup.

Not really. "Speaking like a grownup" is subjective. She is a grown up and does speak like one. You desire her to change what she says because you find her rhetoric powerful and somehow dangerous. There's a huge difference between the two.

You mean while the right was saying that our president was a Kenyan Socialist bent on destroying this country and needed to be stopped as in watering the tree of liberty, those people got called violent, crazy, racists? The hell you say.

No, such statements were not key talking points or concerns of the political right. They were talking points of a handful of conspiracy theorists and widely disregarded by both the left and the right. It seems you have quite a habit of exploiting the fringe element to justify attacks against your perceived political enemies.

reply to post by FlyersFan



Yeah, I tried pointing out the age on page one

The fact remains though, he did have secret service protection during the election, I remember radio hosts making a big deal about it because he wasn't the POTUS. However, the Secret Service justified their actions based on the number of threats he received versus what a typical candidate received, and decided to provide security for him.

Originally posted by centurion1211
If you are subjecting yourself to 12 hours of this a day (your words), you could have at least taken the time to read the entire link. More than one democrat poster was shown.

Lying again? I still never saind anything about anyone being subjected to anything. I am sorry you are so confused by words.

I'm calling on you to produce even one direct link to show the shooter even knew about the Palin PAC poster, or was any kind of follower of Palin's speeches or writings. Anything that would conclusively show that Palin influenced him to commit these crimes. Without such evidence, you stand guilty as charged of using this tragedy for yet another round of Palin bashing.

You are asking my to back up claims that I not only never made but even clarified go against my actual belief and feelings on this specific issue? Why would I do that?

reply to post by searching4truth

Again .... McCain/Palin campaign rallies. OVER 2 1/2 years ago.
Again ... written by foreigners who at the time were IN LOVE with Obama.
Why is this even posted? It was discussed YEARS AGO here.

Sure, she screwed up by quiting her Gov. job ... and her 'target' map was inappropriate (as is the same kind of rhetoric coming from the left - obama himself included). But those that pull up foreign written anti-Palin crap from 2 1/2 years ago and repost .. just to jump on the 'blame Palin for everything' bandwagon ... geeeze .... get a freak'n grip will ya'??

Edited to add - not pointing my finger at searching4truth here ... 'ya'll is just meaning a general 'you guys' kinda thing.