since power and arms were given to Sadaam by the U.S. I can see a remote possibility. I mean he doesn't seem like your typical God-fearing man. There was also talk about his sons actually not being killed that that was a lie, dont know where I heard that though not here. anythings possible at this point.

TRUESABBATH

I agree with the masked avatar,

Did u not know that shriners swear their masonic oath to allah with their hand on the quran (the muslim bible)

Furthermore their lodges are not called temples, they are called mosques. EXPLAIN THAT mr exclusive.

And most obvious the names and hats. "syrian lodge" in the middle of texas... lmao.

Arabs (syrians) where the fathers of freemasonry to the crusaders according to the shriner explanation of history.

And why is it bad if saddam was a mason..? did they find any weapons with him? NO.

[Edited on 30-11-2003 by Ashlar]

off subject....my mums dad was a freemason...........

Originally posted by William
Well... the assumption was high-order Mason, as you were implying.

Anyone can join, as long as they swear the oath. Some European ethic groups enjoy higher immediate rank, some outter-European groups cannot exceed lower ranks.

Odd group. Never liked 'em (despite being highly qualified for that higher immediate rank by lineage).

You aren't crap; Masons would no sooner give you any degree than they gave to Bill Clinton (who was repeatedly black-balled).

Saddam is a Mason? Do you have official records of an official lodge present to prove this????

Doesn't look like it....so take your misleading garbage elsewhere?

I doubt this is at all signifucant, but when I was in Iraq in December, I was at a bazaar where the Iraqi civilian was selling memorobilia from the old Iraqi army. One of the items for sale was cardboard sheet with a collection of pins that the old Iraqi army used on their uniforms. One of the pins caught my attention, as it was one hundred percent identical to the "light" as it's called by Masons, the symbol with the compass and stuff. The pin did not have the letter "g" in the center, but it bore such a striking resemblance I couldn't help but wonder what it was. In my research I discovered it is the insignia the engineers of the Iraqi army wore. It's a relevant symbol for the an engineer to use, but I wonder if the man who designed this insignia didn't borrow the design from the Masons. If so, you have to wonder where he got the idea from. After all, I doubt an Iraqi military serviceman travelled much, or talked to non-Iraqis much, or did much research into secret organizations on the internet. But maybe he did all of those things and more, or perhaps he just made that exact symbol coincidentally. It makes you wonder, though...

I took a picture of the pins, but of course the sand got into my laptop's innards and my hard drive went caput. I can't seem to find any pictures of the insignia on the internet, but I'm going to keep looking.

I had a terrible thought, since the war in Iraq the UK has turned into a Saddam all by its self with al these ID card laws and now MI5 recruiting ordenary people to spy on the public like Saddam had done when people went against him, and even killed when he found out.

The thought is what is Saddam is a form of Anti-Christ or had the spirit and this evil force has moved accross to a new land? What if when Saddam who will be executed ends up like the anti-Christ rise again and not die? Then the world becomes astonished? I could be totally wrong in all aspects but I feel their is a demonic force that has been realised from Iraq that will implement its way Westward. Iraq has strong fallen Angel and demonic Biblical history and prophectic demonic warnings of its Armageddon and openning of the Abyss as mentioned in the book of Revelations. Just a thought not a fact I have about all this.

Originally posted by Trinityman
However both the square, and the compasses are used extensively in geometry and architecture quite independently of freemasonry.

I agree, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence. It's a pretty big coincidence that it's arranged exactly the way the Masonic symbol is, though. I wouldn't be surprised if, even if it has nothing to do with any Iraqi officials being Masons, that they borrowed the design from a Masonic symbol that they had seen before. I've been looking everywhere on the internet to try and find a picture of the pin, I know I've found it in the past, but I'm having trouble locating anything to do with the Iraqi Army's insignias. Perhaps the government is covering up evidence? Haha, just kidding. I think it's just because anytime I type in "corps of engineers" and "iraq" all I get is a bunch of US Army Corps of Engineers links. The Army's taken over not just Iraq but the internet, too!

[edit on 23/11/06 by an3rkist]

Now your figuring out what we in the arab world have known since forever?

Ofcource he's a mason. Wake up, the world is controlled by the powers that be and they own all the governments.

Now your figuring out what we in the arab world have known since forever?

Of cource he's a mason. Wake up, the world is controlled by the powers that be and they own all the governments.

Yep it's starting to look that way.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol

Of cource he's a mason.

Of course, he's not. Also, contrary to another post in this thread, Bill Clinton has never petitioned for membership, nor has he been blackballed. He is, however, an inductee in the Hall of Honour for the DeMolay Society.

In response to an earlier reply Why the war if they're all masons? Well look at world war one. All the various royal monarchies were masonic and that didn't stop them from going to war.

Didn't stop the British Royal family going after the German Royals which were their blood cousins. WWI was a family feud in reality.

So Clinton is a Mason then. Freemasons prominently display the Square in Compess in the order of Jaque De Molay. I think Clinton just tries to keep his membership underwraps.

All his most important mentors were masons so I think it's obvious he's a brother mason aswell.

If Saddam wasn't a Mason he wouldn't have used the Masonic Bird Emblem as his official crest.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by jinsanity]

Originally posted by jinsanity
In response to an earlier reply Why the war if they're all masons? Well look at world war one. All the various royal monarchies were masonic and that didn't stop them from going to war.

What makes you think the 'various monarchies' were masonic? The only people who believe freemasonry was a factor in WWI is the same small group of conspiracists who believe freemasons control the world. Dat cat don't jive.

Didn't stop the British Royal family going after the German Royals which were their blood cousins. WWI was a family feud in reality.

This is quite true. However pretty much all the European families were related going back to Queen Victoria's children so the Anglo-German link is not so remarkable.

So Clinton is a Mason then. Freemasons prominently display the Square in Compess in the order of Jaque De Molay. I think Clinton just tries to keep his membership underwraps.

That's like saying a cub scout is actually a scout. Connected but not the same. I don't think Clinton gives much thought to the matter.

All his most important mentors were masons so I think it's obvious he's a brother mason as well.

Membership of freemasonry is a factual thing, a matter of the record. Clinton wasn't. End of Story. However I'm very interested in who his mentors might be. Got any names?

If Saddam wasn't a Mason he wouldn't have used the Masonic Bird Emblem as his official crest.

What masonic bird emblem? Have we got so tied up in knots now that any use of any emblem by any mason immediately makes ALL usage of that emblem masonic? There's a snake on my lodge's banner... does that mean that anyone who uses a snake as an emblem is a mason?

Originally posted by Trinityman

Membership of freemasonry is a factual thing, a matter of the record. Clinton wasn't. End of Story. However I'm very interested in who his mentors might be. Got any names?

Clinton has never been a Mason, although his father was. Clinton himself was a member of DeMolay as a teen, but never pursued membership in Freemasonry as an adult.

His experience in DeMolay, and respect for Freemasonry, are expressed in his autobiography "My Life".

As for Saddam, anyone with a half-brain knows he's not a Mason. There are practically no Masons in Arabic countries, and it is highly unlikely that Saddam has ever even heard of it.

Originally posted by abstract_alao
I found it on the website posted above:

The Cute Fuzzy Red Hat

We are often asked about the red fuzzy hats that are worn by the Shriner's. They are called Fez caps. The original name was the Tarbeesh. They would have you believe there is no evil significance attached to the Fez cap. They would have you believe the Fez was a head covering worn in AD 980 by Mohammedan students in the city of Fez in Morocco. They say that the fez cap has become the unique headdress of the Moslem Empire.

Well, Fez (original name Fas) was a Christian city in Morocco in the 7th century. There were 20,000 Christians defending the city of Fez. The Muslims (Mohammedans) wearing white semi-conical hats, attacked the Christian defenders. The Muslims captured the city and the Christian defenders and made the Christians dig a ditch. The Muslims murdered the 20,000 Christians by way of the sword and the Christians were thrown into the ditch. When all of the slain Christians were in the ditch, the Muslims dipped their white hats into the red Christian blood, which filled the ditch. After dipping their hats in the blood they renamed the caps from Tarbeesh to "The Red Fez". This is the same fez cap that is worn by the Shriners today and if you notice the insignia on the fez cap is the Islamic star and the crescent. So you see, not always what you see or hear from the Masons and Shriners is true. Satan is the father of lies and deceit and these are his sons of whom he is quite proud.

That started out pretty good till the end there when you kinda lost it with the whole satan thing.

Lets remember that this thread is very old. By all means, continue the discussion, but lets not expect answers from people who probably haven't been on board for a year or more.

Originally posted by an3rkist
It's a relevant symbol for the an engineer to use, but I wonder if the man who designed this insignia didn't borrow the design from the Masons.

I think it'd be likely. The masons were originally, in their operative stage, the engineers of their day, and certainly it existed in Iraq. Especially given that the british administered iraq, they were probably regular masonic lodges (as opposed to irregular european ones).

After all, I doubt an Iraqi military serviceman travelled much, or talked to non-Iraqis much, or did much research into secret organizations on the internet.

[
He wouldn't have to. Where the british went, so did masonry. And being a secular organization, it'd be accepting of muslims, especially well educated ones like engineers, it'd be especially attractive for them.

I took a picture of the pins, but of course the sand got into my laptop's innards and my hard drive went caput. I can't seem to find any pictures of the insignia on the internet, but I'm going to keep looking.

If you find it, post it. It'd be real interseting to see. If it was part of an official uniform, then it should be easy enough to find.

trinityman
it's highly unlikely that it is masonic as Freemasonry was banned by the Ba'ath party and hasn't been practiced in Iraq since the days of King Faisal

Interesting. Perhaps it is from a pre-baathist organization then. That'd make the pin a neat little collectors item I should think.

Until recently...

Are there native lodges? I know that there are some traveling lodges with the US Military, and presumably the british too.
I'td be curious to see who is joining masonry in iraq, if its sunnis, shia, or if its especially popular with the sufis, etc.

syrian sister
Ofcource he's a mason.

I wasn't aware that you had magic powers that allowed you to, by fiat, decide who is and isn't a mason. What, pray tell, lodge does he belong to? Is he Scottish or York Rite? How ironic it would be if he had attained the degree of Knights Templar in the York rite, and yet was brought down by the modern 'crusaders'.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Nygdan]

Great thread! and most of this is the truth.

The secret societies run the world.

The masons can and do confer 33 degree on people of high rank that display the kind of qualities that they admire in a person of position in the world.

Thus an honorary rank of 33 degree is not only legit but to a good extent it is also 'earned.'

Since the secret orders are split between dark and light that is why we see such dichotomy among them and those that view them from the outside, each side preferring to see what they will.

Originally posted by The time lord
I had a terrible thought, since the war in Iraq the UK has turned into a Saddam all by its self with al these ID card laws and now MI5 recruiting ordenary people to spy on the public like Saddam had done when people went against him, and even killed when he found out.

The thought is what is Saddam is a form of Anti-Christ or had the spirit and this evil force has moved accross to a new land? What if when Saddam who will be executed ends up like the anti-Christ rise again and not die? Then the world becomes astonished? I could be totally wrong in all aspects but I feel their is a demonic force that has been realised from Iraq that will implement its way Westward. Iraq has strong fallen Angel and demonic Biblical history and prophectic demonic warnings of its Armageddon and openning of the Abyss as mentioned in the book of Revelations. Just a thought not a fact I have about all this.

Did you think the US seceded from the British Empire because they had itchy loins?

This is nothing new.

Lets all stick ot the topic, is Hussein a mason, 33rd degree or otherwise? Lets try not to get too far afield on this.