Mission homeowner fined $5,200 for growing cucumbers

reply to post by trailertrash


Heh. It's funny, the first time I read the OP I just assumed it was in the US. I couldn't believe my eyes when I realised this was happening in Canada.

Originally posted by [davinci]
If you are going to do something that that exactly mirrors illegal activity then you have to expect to be called on it.

Congratulations, you get stupidhead of the day award from me.

You post on ATS, a killer posted on ATS ... you are mimicking a crazy man. WTF man?? Aside from your logic sucking, it happens to exactly echo that of TPTB ... "well we're just trying to look after you all" ... i'm gobsmacked.

If you sincerely believe that not only should electrical consumption be monitored, but that unusual usage should immediately result in being stormed and searched, then you are seriously off the deep end.

I'm not even going to go into being CHARGED for the priviledge. And why not raise the 64 million dollar question: what possible down side is there to growing and using marijuana? It's all such a fake, over hyped piece of stupid it bends my mind.

But getting "good guys" like you to buy into it? Priceless.

Sorry it is late and I have not read the whole thread, but I still want to post this.....

Don't you just KNOW that is one of the reasons they want these darn Smart Meters in our homes here in the US? So they can monitor us to see if we are maybe 'growing' something?

We have grow lights in our kitchen because we grow some really hard to start or grow stuff in there - all legal, like petty spurge and turmeric are going right now- and it's by a picture window that anyone walking by can see that there are grow lights there. It makes me nervous we will get our dog or worse shot because someone thinks grow lights=pot.
You have to understand, they busted my sister with rosemary at a traffic stop here. Handcuffed her and everything until one of the officers said "this isn't pot." They aren't always real bright around here. Around here you might get busted with cucumbers being hashish or something.

reply to post by hadriana


Wow, sounds like they need some better teaching aides at the police academy.

Congratulations, you get stupidhead of the day award from me.

You post on ATS, a killer posted on ATS ... you are mimicking a crazy man. WTF man?? Aside from your logic sucking, it happens to exactly echo that of TPTB ... "well we're just trying to look after you all" ... i'm gobsmacked.

If you sincerely believe that not only should electrical consumption be monitored, but that unusual usage should immediately result in being stormed and searched, then you are seriously off the deep end.

I'm not even going to go into being CHARGED for the priviledge. And why not raise the 64 million dollar question: what possible down side is there to growing and using marijuana? It's all such a fake, over hyped piece of stupid it bends my mind.

But getting "good guys" like you to buy into it? Priceless.

Drama queen much?

You equate not jumping on the 'lets hate all things related to the police' bandwagon as having something in common with a man that murdered 6 people and wounded a dozen more?

Lets look at the herd mentality you just demonstrated shall we?

If you sincerely believe that not only should electrical consumption be monitored, but that unusual usage should immediately result in being stormed and searched

First of all, where did I saw that I believed power consumption should be monitored?

I said

it has long been police practice to use high power usage as an indicator of a grow-op...

and

However, as I posted, the police have always used suspicious power usage as an indicator.

ALWAYS.

I don't see any endorsement of the activity there, just the stated FACT that this is a long standing flag to power companies and law enforcement that something is abnormal.

Second, where did I say

that unusual usage should immediately result in being stormed and searched

What I said was

If you are going to do something that exactly mirrors illegal activity then you have to expect to be called on it.

and

here was a reason for the police to go to this man's property. They didn't pick him at random or throw darts at a county map or get a bogus tip.

There was evidence that matched a known pattern.

Nope, nothing there either. Except of course that if you are going to act like a crimminal then you have to expect that you will be treated like a crimminal.

Pretty basic common sense there.

Then of course

I'm not even going to go into being CHARGED for the priviledge

This statement is in some perverse way in reaction to

Should the homeowner have to pay for the mistaken raid?

NO.

To fine these people is nothing more then the police needing something to justify thier actions.

The fine is out of line, the police should appologize to the home owner and move on.

If there were damages to the property they should have to pay for them.

The story here is NOT the raid, the story is the fine.

There doesn't seem to be any rational way to connect your statements to anything that I said in any of my posts on this topic.

Next, to try and draw parallels between a murderous rampage and a realistic view of the world outside Mom's basement is the true sign of a troubled mind.

Read the threads on JLL, you will see that there were numerous signs that went ignored for a variety of reason's that led to his ability to purchase a gun and commit his act.

Police failure.

Now in this story, we have established police techniques that were used, only the end result was an incorrect one.

Police failure again.

This is the typical no-win situation law enforcement constantly finds themselves in. Do nothing with regards to obvious warning signs and be blamed for inaction and failure to protect the public. Take action on obvious signs and risk being wrong and accused of abuse of power.

Or...

Arrest JLL and be wrong: abuse of power and the victimization of a person. Ignore an obvious sign of a Grow-Op in a region that is internationally know for them: too lazy to do thier jobs properly.

Ain't reality a bitch?

Regardless of what decision is made the police suffer public wrath.

Then there is your 64 million dollar question...

what possible down side is there to growing and using marijuana?

Somehow this is a rebuttal to

I do agree with you, it's a plant that naturally grows the way it does (yes it has been selectively bred but it does not require any processing...grow it, pick it, dry it out).

Legalize it, tax it.

You seem to be suffering from an ID(ten)T error on your terminal input device. Before further compounding the situation, research into the causes of the error should be undertaken.

Just because everyone else on this thread is bashing the police doesn't mean you have to blindly follow along. Critical thinking is a skill that aligns very well to any intermediate level of public education. The benefits of both create situations where a person is able to balence emotion, logic and reality into a clear image of thier surroundings.

None of these things are represented by your post.

But getting "good guys" like you to buy into it? Priceless.

Right back at you.

We live in a cruel, hard world friend. Be thankfull that there are people who willingly place themselves between you and those who would do you harm (even when you berate them for that very action). Sadly however people, ALL OF THEM, make mistakes.

I am very concerned with the number of mistakes the RCMP in general and the BC Police in particular have been making on almost a daily basis for the last couple years. What the causes of this may be are wide ranging but at best it is a systemic failure in training or recruit selection, at worst...well, there is no real limit on the abuses possible when a federal police force is used for municipal law enforcement.

Nice FAIL though, keep practicing.

reply to post by [davinci]


Thanks for justifying the award.

I didn't bother trying to separate the various parts of your statement, your basic POV was that this is a reasonable course of action by the authorities, and one that should be welcomed/accepted for the "good" of society.

Should you not in fact have that POV, then perhaps you should have reworded your statement(s) on this thread.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
growing cucumbers in the basement , sounds ...........distinctly odd

I was actually going to try to grow vegies in my house if we don't get another summer. Last year, everywhere flooded, and there was so much rain, I couldn't even get into my garden outside without sinking over my ankles in the dirt. The ground was still getting heavy frost until the end of June, and then we had so much rain, not enough sun. It might be the only way to have a garden if this summer isn't better.

I would rather do it in the winter, but it would be an experiment partly to see if the warmth of the lights is cheaper than running an electric heater downstairs.

If I do this, I am going to the cop shop first, and inviting them into my home to see exactly what I'm growing, before they come to me, and if they want they can come back and take some vegies home when they're ready.

I live in Saskatchewan, so there's no way I would grow anything else indoors where it could possibly be found. I've already been threatened with investigation from using too much power 3 years ago, when our temperature went down to between -40 to -50 celcius, and stayed that way for a month. A pick up truck and a semi were both plugged in, a downstairs space heater on 24/7 to keep the plumbing from freezing. The pipes still froze, and they were wrapped heavily with insulation. I also needed to replace a 1 year old battery ($150) from the cold. And they threatened me for using too much power

I've already called saskpower this year concerning my power use, because my electric bill hit $600 this past month, because of crappy windows. I don't want my door kicked in and my dogs shot by cops, so I told saskpower to come in any time they wanted to surprise me with a visit.

reply to post by SerialLurker


no - not sarcastic , but realistic how is cultivating cubumbers under artificial light ecconomical ? they were using an abnormal electricity load [ thats why they were raided ] fr cucumbers ?

reply to post by harryhaller


You just don't get it do you?

The police operate based on two manuals, one is the legal code, the other is thier training.

Although I have known a few cops over the years and most were good people, I do have to be honest though; they are not the most imaginative people in the world. A trait that seems to be increasingly sought after in recruiting.

There is no interpretation, just black and white, innocent and guilty. Exactly the type of mentality that can be exploited as situations deteriorate. This is made even worse by having a federal police force doing local policing. It is not an accident that the RCMP must spend several years outside of thier home community before being able to transfer back. If you only hire a particular type of person and then put them in an unfamiliar enviroment they have no ties to, where it is US and THEM, you can be guarenteed of a particular outcome (ie, blind observance of the letter of the law without any thought to the particular circumstances of each individual case).

If you are behaving a way that thier training has told them is illegal and to be alert for then they are going to come after you with the law. What this case shows is that regardless of what they find, you will be punished somehow.

If they can't charge you they will fine you, if there is no relevant fine you will be billed for thier time.

Open your eyes. The behavior of these homeowners exactly matched what the police have been trained to recognize. Massive power bills have been identified as a sign of a grow-op. It is such a blatent sign that those who do actually run grow-ops professionally go to pretty impressive lengths to devise strategies to get around it.

In my city a few years ago a grow-op was accidentally discovered. It came as a complete shock to the community because it was in a 500 000 dollar home in a well-to-do neighbourhood. It wasn't in a the type of building that the police would look to as being a possible target, and the operators were very careful not to allow any activity that would be unusal for a residential nieghbourhood to occur so it went un-noticed.

When the investigation concluded, what was discovered was the house was specifically targetted by the group responsible because there were underground powerlines on the property. They had tunneled to the lines, spliced into them and then had access to all the power they could ever want.

No meter, no flags, no problems.

The news article mentions that these people have dealt with the police before, that this is a recurring problem for them.

Of course it is.

They have a target on them now and probably will continue to until they go to the courts with thier harassment case. I promise you, we will hear about these people again because until thier case is heard the police will continue along thier current path.

As another example, When I was working in a downtown bar having dealers on the premises was just a fact of the industry. The ones who kept a low profile and didn't fit in to the stereotype that the police look for rarely got bothered. Those that did fit the stereotype ended up in jail rather quickly.

Draw attention to yourself and you will be payed attention to.

Once the problems start they will continue until there is some type of resolution either way.

As another example, years ago a friend of mine, an admitted alchoholic, appeared on the police radar. He drove the three blocks from the bar to his home with a police tail that had been waiting in the bar's parking lot looking for people just like him. He managed to lose them just long enough to park his car, toss the keys and sit on his step before they got to his house. There was nothing they could do because they couldn't place HIM in the vehicle.

But they were aware of him now.

Having learned from his near miss, he left the car at home and took his bike. When they found him biking home he was charged with drunk-driving because he was operating a vehicle on the roads while intoxicated.

So he started to walk home.

They charged him with being drunk in public.

This went on until he had enough and actually went to court over one of the fines...he was moving out of the province because of a job so fighting the police wouldn't paint an even larger target on him. The police (the RCMP) argued that the charges were valid as he could take a cab. He argued that he shouldn't have to take a cab because you could literally see his house from the bar. The charges had nothing to do with anything other then he was drunk and as such could be fined.

The judge agreed and waived all fines. The judge, to his credit, was able to see that the police were being lazy, they had identified a sure thing for fines and everytime they saw this guy he was going to be stopped and charged.

It is the same thing in this case and others like it, part of the problem is that fighting these actions is expensive and time consuming so people just pay up and then bitch about the fines instead of standing up against them.

In the last two years documents have been released showing that it is an actual mandate in the city of Winnipeg and the entire province of Quebec that each officer has a quota that must be met. Under these types of situations, we the public have to do everything WE can not to give these groups any excuse to target us.

What is disturbing to me most, and the reason I have continued in this thread instead of giving up, is that people don't realize that one simple fact yet. So let me repeat it.

DON'T DO ANYTHING THAT DRAWS ATTENTION TO YOURSELF IN A WAY THAT CAN BE EXPLOITED BY THE POLICE.

If you, and all the others who have reponded to me had actually thought about my posts you would have seen what my point was.

Or perhaps I am giving you too much credit.

This is a case of 'know your enemy', although I do not wish to imply that the police are your enemy, it is up to us to know how these groups operate, what thier motivations are and then do everything we can to avoid any situation that causes us to cross paths with them.

To sit and say that that I support these practices, or that I am on the same page as a murderer, is uneducated and ignorant.

Grow up, understand the world we are surrounded by and try to blend in as much as you possiblly can. As things get worse, and they are going to get worse, any person who stands out from the rest of the herd is going to have serious problems.

These homeowners behaved in a way that fit a crimminal profile perfectly. The police WERE doing thier job as demanded by the public and supported by the legal system. Regardless of the situation surrounding pot and whether it is right or wrong, the majority of the public has continued to support the status quo. The police used long standing, accepted techniques that have been continually supported by the judicial system to identify a particular type of crimminal behavior.

They were doing thier job as it has been repeatedly outlined for them. The only thing that is new, and what makes this case noteworthy, is that local governments have discovered a cash cow that can be exploited.

Increased revenue without the unpopular action of raising taxes.

Public support is BOUGHT by hinting at increased expense for all. In the case of the mould mentioned, it is another well documented sign of a current or past grow op. To the public, it is an expensive nightmare that a future owner will have to deal with in order to meet insurance regulations.

See a trend here? It's not just that laws are being written that make almost everything crimminal in some way, but government allows us to be victimized by businesses (in this case an insurance company...homeowners insurance is mandatory, just look at your mortgage) in whatever way is most profitable to them.

Got a big enough lobby group and you get your way.

The majority of police are good peole who honestly believe that thier actions are making our country a better place. Individual laws, when reviewed individually do not have the appearance of totalitarianism and as such are supported and upheld by the good cops out there.

It is only when you step back and see the big picture that you can realize that we are being played.

As much as I hate this arguement, the officers were just doing what they are told under the belief that they actually are helping the public. It is the people BEHIND the laws that need to be addressed.

You, and others, have fallen for the plan hook, line and sinker; blame the police for doing thier jobs and your anger stops there. No thought, or very little, is given to the real cause of this situation or those who truely are to blame. You hate the police and demand that something be done about them instead of using the tools we have at our disposale, the courts, to address the problem at it's source yourself.

The police are being scapegoated. Although there are undoubtedly bad cops, they are the exception.

Again, the story is the fines that were levied on the homeowners even after it was discovered that thier actions, while highly suspicious, are not illegal.

This will be my final word on this topic and thread; people need to smarten up and not make themselves a target. It doesn't matter whether you are innocent or not; if you fit a stereotype that has been green lighted for targetting you will become a target and suffer the consequences.

WAKE UP.

Originally posted by trailertrash
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

 

Hey what's going on up there in Canada? I thought you guys had a democracy but it sounds more like someone elected Comrade Stalin. If this has been going on for a while all I can say is that you all have become too comfortable in your freedoms and have forgotten that they have to be continually guarded. This means being active in local politics for you citizens in Mission. Down here we'd say "kick the bums out" and then we'd do just that. There was a time when I thought I'd like to be a Canadian but no more. Our country is tits up in the ditch but methinks we aren't the only one. Has Canada turned into a nation of pussies or what?

edit on 12-1-2011 by trailertrash because: (no reason given)

Actually this is the result of American diplomacy.

Even look at NAFTA. If you dissemble all of the legalistic legislation, provinces can't even make their own laws unless they are in American interests, or American corporations can sue the Canadian government.

We would have legalized marijuana too in 2002, but the Americans sent a hardliner up here to kindly inform us that the US would close off the borders and cut off our economy if we did. So now we still have large, secret and highly illegal grow ops along with police brutality and jail time ALL OVER A HERB.

IMPORATNT NOTICE

I hate to use caps but i want people to pay attention to this post.

This raid seems to have been based upon general intelligence regarding drugs growers. For those who are unfamiliar with what this means i will inform you, not because i am myself a drugs grower but simply because as someone who loves hydroponics and home growing i know what they look for.

The police use heat sensing hardware to pick up signs of drug grows. Growing drugs means using sodium and metal halide lights. It just so happens these lights are used to grow every other crop, from tomatoes to peppers, strawberrys to olives. If you have an interest in this hobby you must be prepared to suffer the police kicking your door in. I myself have 4 grow rooms as i am running multiple experiments trying to maximise crop output with the intent to write a paper on vertical growing techniques for increased agriculture production.

Basically the police are as likely to raid me as a drugs grower, of course i have nothing to fear as all my crops are legal but it is a constant worry, the idea of having the door kicked in because of this is upsetting, there is however an easy way to stop this happening.

The first way would be to legalise drugs, that way innocent people wouldn't be caught in the same web but that isn't going to happen.

The second way would be to restrict what enables police to gain a warrant. Simply having heat ouput or electricity usage as reason for a warrant should be abolished in all countries, why it is allowed i'm simply confused about.

Write to your representatives people, while it seems pointless if enough apply remember that politicians want to stay in power, they will agree with the majority to save their own skins.

I'm currently adding two more lights to my system as i'm experimenting with aeroponics and i have no doubt my house will glow with heat and this will no doubt lead to my door being kicked in. Luckily i don't do anything illegal but if/when this does happen the police will pay for physical damage only and no the emotional distress involved.

That's another thing, campaign for police to be held accountable, because at the moment they simply are not held to account.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Around BC, most homes are powered by BC Hydro. Power rates can be remotely viewed from company records. The thing is though, that the real professional grow ops use multiple generators to avoid this kind of detection. And even when it comes to heat detection, top growers know how to insulate rooms and manage ventilation systems.

But then again, the top growers tend to be major gangs like Hell's Angels. They also have a lot of play with elements inside the RCMP as well so they are well protected. The growers who get busted are usually independent operations by less-experienced people... the top ones are usually above the system anyways.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Around BC, most homes are powered by BC Hydro. Power rates can be remotely viewed from company records. The thing is though, that the real professional grow ops use multiple generators to avoid this kind of detection. And even when it comes to heat detection, top growers know how to insulate rooms and manage ventilation systems.

But then again, the top growers tend to be major gangs like Hell's Angels. They also have a lot of play with elements inside the RCMP as well so they are well protected. The growers who get busted are usually independent operations by less-experienced people... the top ones are usually above the system anyways.

Lol i'm afraid you know more than i do. I do know that marjuana growers try to hide their heat outputs which basically makes it more ironic that police use heat to find growers. People like myself who grow legal crops don't try and hide their heat output and we end up getting raided. I know someone it happened to and he was growing tomatoes.

It's kind of funny really.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I know someone who had something similar happen. A man had a grow op with all kinds of LEGAL edibles and his house got raided. The special drug task force was upset that they didn't find anything illegal and broke all of his grow lights and threw things threw things threw his house windows. They assumed they guy was tipped off and that justified their actions. Needless to say a lawsuit is in progress.

For the record the Brevard Country Sheriff's Drug Task Force are a bunch of pigs that have no respect for the individual, the constitution, or due process. I have friends who are in LEO and some of them agree(off the record of course). I just pray my generation can end the draconian laws and the naziesque police practices in the name of the WoDs.

Things have been getting pretty crazy for drug wars here in B.C. lately, and law enforcement has been pretty over the top, looks like we will be joining the US soon

reply to post by [davinci]


Taxation is exactly where they want to take this. They use the scare tactics of how the "illegal" activity of growing pot is the sole culprit in the increase of crime. This is an herb, natural and grows in the earth. I think if we allow taxation on this plant, then we will eventually be paying taxes on all natural items we grow on our properties.

I say no to taxes, no to it being illegal and no to anyone who says they have the right to say what a person can grow on thier own properties. There is so much more to the story of canabis then the picture painted by 60 yrs of propaganda.

One by one our herbs are being taken from us. When they offer great medicinal and industrial applications to the mass civilization. I read the other day some where here on ATS that the Aloe Vera plant was being targeted next. Not sure of the validity of it, as I just mainly scanned through the post. Do you have any clue the healing properties of the Aloe Vera plant?