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Be Prepared for the Cognitive Infiltration of ATS in the Wake of Arizona Shootings

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posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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What a wonderful opportunity, this ought to make thing interesting.




posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by howmuch4another


They can download every thread and its posts, but sadly no automated program can see what context the content is being represented as, it's non sequitor in that respect.

Isn't it ironic that ATS fills a niche which MSM will never do? MSM is shooting its own foot and mouth off by being owned by one major corp. or person. It needs to be diverse with many different viewpoints. CNN and FOX? That's a joke when considering the addition of the WH mouthpieces or other.

Oh, just listen to that nice sound...after a while that's all you'll hear because that's all we transmit. BS!



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Star for the cool song, but change is what Proto is predicting, and boldly cautioning that we might end up seeing a new type of Internet Environment in the future.

Could be wrong, but, I could be right.

Thanks for joining in.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


Star for the cool song, but change is what Proto is predicting, and boldly cautioning that we might end up seeing a new type of Internet Environment in the future.

Could be wrong, but, I could be right.

Thanks for joining in.


Things may very well change, it should be interesting to watch, and look for stricter rules and internet regulations.

But as far a posters go we here have many varying opinions, and we butt heads plenty.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





They would if they want actual enforcement powers, the power to censor, ban, question or detain or charge internet posters.

Such a system would not start out that way, just the same way the TSA didn't start out bombarding people with dangerous radiation and groping their genitals to get on a plane.


What you are suggesting here is much more then just entering into the discussions and trying to influence it with the tactics you outlined in the OP. Which as I said I believe is already being done to some degree.

What you are describing above is a cyber cop with powers to arrest etc. They are trying to do that with the net neutrality thing and other stuff already. It will not fly as you have said. When they start censoring big time alternative networks will suddenly become popular and explode among other things

The question is how much will people take. If the TSA is any indication; a lot. But perhaps information is the the straw that will break the camels back? Lets hope so... You can take my rights and liberties but you can never take my internet!!!

edit on 11-1-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Well, from that perspective, they are already controlling the internet. Do you realize there is a high-speed internet (WW3) which is only reserved for education and research. Yes that means .EDU and .MIL and you know what? The average person cannot access it or even will unless they are a member of the above and then in very limited compartmentalized ways.

That's been around since the early 90's. Every computer science professional knows that. It would be an easy thing to do to edit or set the TTL (time to live) to a value outside of a parameter if the site doesn't pull up WITHIN that time limit, it is expired and you see nothing. Using techniques to alter DNS records so any site which is in opposition will not even pull-up or be blocked by their Top Level Domain extension and even can be blocked by domain name and IP address. It is really very simple to do. There are many ways, but also the backlash from this by the Hacking Community would be enourmous as to totally cripple the internet. The people wishing to censor know this and is the exact reason those methods haven't been tried.

And the sad thing is, you'll never realize it. IE CANNOT DISPLAY THIS PAGE is all you'll see.

I doubt the United States could get away with doing this for a nanosecond but you bet your gigabytes that Austrailia, Iran, and China uses it.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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Gee, I've just always assumed that the NSA, DHS, FBI, CIA, or any other gov. alphabet agency had infiltrated every website that I was a member of.....



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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You know, as long as we all don't take our "butting heads" to an extreme and start showing-up at someone's door with a club, it serves a purpose.

Some people feel as if their online persona or "avatar" is an extension of themselves; it isn't nor will ever be.

It feels as if there is some "reality there" due to the instant gratification of inter-action. This is asynchronous communications. I don't have to be synchronous and reply to a post as soon as it is written, I can wait until I want, but some people who have the delusion of this action being "rude" or it being a "dismissal," might act on impulse.

The government's problem is that they don't really understand the "beast" they are trying to regulate and make futile efforts to enact legislation. Sadly, the older the legislators are, the less they can grasp these ideas and how they are used. If they don't have an E-Mail address or know what "broadband" is, they are likely to delegate these tasks to subordinates and the technology and opportunities are diluted or wasted altogether.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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I am new here, but I dont work for anything other than God. (I respect your beliefs, respect mine)
I publicly announce that I know nothing, and am ignorant of everything. (It keeps me learning if I do that
)

Denying ignorance is the welcoming of intelligence? Intelligence is not knowing everything, its questioning everything you THINK you know.

"The answer is not in the things that comes from this corrupted world.
Forget about democracy, rule yourself. Forget about religion, find the God himself, forget about society, find the peace within you."

"He who knows much about others may be learned, but he who understands himself is more intelligent. He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.

The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there will be.

People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment." -Tao Te Ching

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
- Buddha

"live up to it",



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Oh, the regulation attempts and debate will continue until a law severely infringes on civil rights as to inspire a movement like the "Civil Rights Movement." Except this movement will be more related to a "Cyber Rights Movement."

Actually, if you look at it, sound, light, and all communication, is based-on frequency, amplitude, and phase; there should be no regulation against it or the medium (electro-magnetic spectrum.) Even vocal speech is vibration, pitch, and amplitude which flows across a medium (media.)

When Professor Hawking uses his computer to speak digitally for him, does he ask for a permit to converse? No, why would he anyway, this is a fundamental right. You can't regulate that or the ideology.

Sound is very closely related to Light.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by arbitraryinsanity
 


Aye, I also learn and grow, (and often change my viewpoint,) after I have written every single reply to a thread or post. I am not ashamed of a correct process.

Indeed....profound wisdom.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Well, from that perspective, they are already controlling the internet. Do you realize there is a high-speed internet (WW3) which is only reserved for education and research. Yes that means .EDU and .MIL and you know what? The average person cannot access it or even will unless they are a member of the above and then in very limited compartmentalized ways.



Interesting. I used to get more websites that were edu. and have noticed that I can't find them as much over the past year or so. Does this have something to do with my internet speed or my service provider? When I first began to notice this I started using other search engines like turbo and webcrawler. You say the average person cannot access these edu. and mil. pages. Why?



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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i would just like to say that while i do dismiss many conspiracy theories, i do NOT dismiss them just because they are conspiracy theorists

i believe myself to be a true skeptic

im skeptic of the government and 'official story', sure, but that doesnt mean im ready to subscribe to the fact that half the world has been visited by aliens, are trained assassins by the government through use of MKUltra and are reptilian aliens from some off the wall planet-asteroid.

there are a lot of times i would REALLY like to violate the TOS simply because some of the ideas posted on here are COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and nobody sane would think of those kind of things

what i dont understand is why every conspiracy has to be something invented in fantasy land, instead of a plausible, even probable(!) theory.

i noticed that in this very forum there is a topic pertaining to 10 conspiracy theories

the fact that people will now use these conspiracy theories to validate their reasoning for believing the government are all aliens using earth bound sociology to mind control people from birth is ludicrous! where in the world do ANY of those conspiracy theories go out of this world?

the conspiracy theories listed there are TRUE conspiracies, and they are not nearly as whacky as what seems to be most of the stuff posted on here




id like to note i am NOT big brother, im a long time ATS lurker who, while i did come out to post on the JLL thing, is simply trying to continue to fight the good fight, while still staying grounded.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by arbitraryinsanity
 


Wonderful quotes.

welcome



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:00 PM
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Dumb the people down, and let them use their own ignorance to generate opinions and solutions that lead them no where. This site, like many others, is becoming another tabloid news paper. Legitimate information can be found here. But all it takes is one stone thrown in the puddle to bury the truth in a barrage of personal insults and further stupidity.

We have the right idea here, but there is so much counter-psy ops going on here to make it a very confusing place to get info outside of the media streams. I learned something recently. No truth can be found, in it's entirety, on a site smothered with commercial advertisements.

Sorry if I completely went off topic, but I think there's some applicability to my worthless opinion.

edit on 11-1-2011 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 





The question is how much will people take. If the TSA is any indication; a lot. But perhaps information is the the straw that will break the camels back? Lets hope so... You can take my rights and liberties but you can never take my internet!!!


I don't really think the Government or the Powers that Be want to take away the Internet, but rather find more ways to make it pay for them, and enhance their control.

The TSA is a great example of how Government Agencies expand their powers once empowered in ways many of us find disturbing, and intrusive.

The Wild West is a good example of how when a new territory is being developed the government grants the pioneers wide lattitude to basically settle it, and once that hard work and risk of settling something, then the government comes in to capitilize on it and impose order on it.

Order for profit, the government's profit.

The Internet has been like the wild west in a lot of ways, and people love it for that kind of let your hair down, relatively risk free, freedom it affords to express yourself.

But sooner or later like everything else the government is going to seek control and profit.

And as they do in many cases, it's likely to be under the veil and guise of security for the people.

When you take the teenagers committing suicide over attacks on their carachter over the internet, and the random nut case, who sometimes are into conspiracies talked about on the Internet, pretty soon it's not that hard to convince law abiding citizen who shares the dispraportionate concern of the Mainstream Media, that their 9 year old kid might be the next victim.

It's always a play on emotions that they rely on, usually ones that have to do with the fear of security, that they use to get people to roll over, and accept more intrustion, more supervision, more laws.

Once they implement them, yeah we all know how posters like me rail against the TSA but that's about all I can do, is complain about them, that and boycott the airports because the reality is, most people are prepared to accept it, even if unhappily to use a service they consider vital.

So you might want to ask yourself, are you so in love with the Internet would you still use it, with regulations and penalties attached for violating standards imposed for it's use?

By the way behaviorial standards are nothing particularly new, there was a time in many states and colonies, that cursing in public could get you fined or tossed in jail, lewd and disorderly public conduct is still on the books in most places, and a charge still often used.

I don't honestly know what remedies or protection we have against such things happening, but I do know this, the vast majority of people roll over for it, and end up accepting it like it or not.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Fact: Cass Sunstien is the Obama Information Czar.

Fact: He has written a book, and white papers on Cognitive Infiltration of the Internet specifically conspiracy sites and would like the Government to do just that.

Fact: After prior acts of violence against high ranking government officials new laws as a direct response to those crimes were enacted such as the Brady Act.

Fact: High ranking government officials were murdered and greviously injured in this incident.




Nobody likes to be discussed behind their back. No body likes other people attempting to answer on behalf of themselves. Wouldn't the right thing to do be to extend an invitation to Mr. Sunstein to come to ATS and let his audience ask him some questions about his books, his works, and his ideas of direction for the future? It could be a positive thing, you know. Perhaps ATS could host a monthly or weekly forum of "Featured Guest" on a regular basis. If this idea could come to fruition, I would suggest that those who wish to participate to familiarize themselves with the persons work in order to ask intelligent questions, and the guest could pick and choose what he/she feels is most important and relevant to answer and respond over a the course of a week.

Surely something like this could help raise the intellectual level of the board. And a meeting of the minds would be more productive in discussions that lead toward peaceable resolutions rather than just speculative conspiracies.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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Crippled Epistemology?





Sunstein’s theory is that people prone to believe in and investigate conspiracies become more or less ‘isolated’ on sites like ATS and end up developing opinions and views by over reliance on too few sources of information, where to be fair to the premise of the theory, the information being put forth is poorly researched, or deliberately incomplete to paint a false and misleading picture.

To be sure, in all fairness, some of the theories published here on ATS are not particularly well researched or complete. To be even fairer though this is something that many critical and skeptical minded ATS Members point out again and again in such threads.


Is "Sunstein's theory" assumption applicable to the entire population of North America? This theory says: "people are prone to believe in and investigate conspiracies become more or less 'isolated' on sites like ATS and end-up developing opinions and views by over-reliance on too few sources of information?

Well, let me stop here and address this first particular; the statistics just don't add up.

Let's see, how many people belong to ATS? What are the odds of a person belonging to ATS and a person belonging to the total US population?

Wait, did Sunstein explicitly say ATS? Well, to specifically name ATS is bias. This theory must be tested by including ALL conspiracy sites ANYWHERE on the internet (entire population) which adds another level of complexity and margin of error.

P ( J | ATS ) / (total conspiracy site members / J) = ? ---> ? / total US population = %

See it doesn't "add-up" due to the population size. It's not even practical to assume the inference to where I think this is going. I can't agree with Sunstein's theory, what population size did he use as a comparison? You see where the inference is going? Don't you? You can't even infer this probability do to it contaminating the results with bias.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by DeenUS
i would just like to say that while i do dismiss many conspiracy theories, i do NOT dismiss them just because they are conspiracy theorists

i believe myself to be a true skeptic

im skeptic of the government and 'official story', sure, but that doesnt mean im ready to subscribe to the fact that half the world has been visited by aliens, are trained assassins by the government through use of MKUltra and are reptilian aliens from some off the wall planet-asteroid.

there are a lot of times i would REALLY like to violate the TOS simply because some of the ideas posted on here are COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS and nobody sane would think of those kind of things

what i dont understand is why every conspiracy has to be something invented in fantasy land, instead of a plausible, even probable(!) theory.

i noticed that in this very forum there is a topic pertaining to 10 conspiracy theories

the fact that people will now use these conspiracy theories to validate their reasoning for believing the government are all aliens using earth bound sociology to mind control people from birth is ludicrous! where in the world do ANY of those conspiracy theories go out of this world?

the conspiracy theories listed there are TRUE conspiracies, and they are not nearly as whacky as what seems to be most of the stuff posted on here




id like to note i am NOT big brother, im a long time ATS lurker who, while i did come out to post on the JLL thing, is simply trying to continue to fight the good fight, while still staying grounded.


You raise a lot of interesting points when it comes to the more imaginative theories that some members like to write about and discuss.

However, that's a small percentage of members, and while I myself often see no validity in many of the things discussed here on ATS as I pointed out with some examples in the Opening Post, I wouldn't typify the site or conspiracy theorists in general with those extreme examples of hard to substantiate alternative beliefs.

Nor would I dwell on to me what is a negative act of disparaging people simply for having such beliefs.

I sometimes read some of the Gray Area threads where people make outrageous claims and present some wild theories that they can't substantiate and to be honest, it's hard to tell if the people posting them sometimes, even believe it themselves. Kids goofing around, attention seekers, and budding story tellers, sometimes show up on the site, as well as obviously the occassional poster with some apparent potential serious mental problems. Even then though because of the one dimensional anonymous nature of the Internet you never know if someone is joking about those things too.

One thing is for certain, there are a number of posters who like to goof on the people who put forth these theories, and focus to such an extent on doing that, they fail to in many cases, even notice, read or take part in the highly researched, well written and presented theories some people put forward on the site.

So personally I think it's a pity that people end up seeing conspiracy theorists in that light, because the truth is conspiracies have always driven our world.

Dismissing them out of hand, or throwing the baby out with the bath water so to speak, by painting a broad brush like that really is only a disservice to the person doing that.

The site is a treasure trove of some incredible information, in many cases, born of serious research and investigation.

Yeah you have to weed through a lot of questionable stuff, but hey, if you are on a quest for knowledge it's well worth the effort.

I have been studying history, a history full of conspiracies and conspiracies my whole life. I personally think there is a real difference from the true conspiracy theorist who is much like a police detective or investigator dilligently tracking down leads and information, and the info-tainment junky.

That's just me though.

ATS is pretty much what you make of it, lots of serious well researched discussions taking place, on some very relevant conspiracies, alternative news, religious discussions, science discussions, etc all take place here.

So a little something for everyone.

Anyway, welcome aboard, glad to see you posting, and hopefully you can find some topics that challenge your skeptical mind, which hopefully is a fair and open one, though I don't feel personally it's fair to label the site, or the members based on the polar extremes of particular genres within the conspiracy world.

In fact I think there is a real danger in portraying the respectable conspiracy theory community in that stereotypical way, because that's exactly how the politicians will sell it, to pass laws to regulate it.

Everyone loses then, skeptics and theorists alike.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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P ( J | ATS ) = 1/213,454 = 4.6848501316442886992045124476468e-6

.000000468

P ( ATS | US POP ) = 213,454/307,006,550 = 6.9527506823551484487871675702033e-4

.0000695

Very Low Probabilities

J = 1
ATS = 213,454




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