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Be Prepared for the Cognitive Infiltration of ATS in the Wake of Arizona Shootings

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posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Now do you really believe you are being fair by not fairly considering what is a well published desire, on behalf of a high ranking White House Official and Presidential Appointee?


I can't live my life with such fear and paranoia.

And besides...what exactly do you think these "infiltrators" are going to do? You can't spread any more disinformation or misinformation on ATS than there already is. Some birds die...it's the end of the world. An alien talked to someone in a dream...it's the end of the world. Some nut goes off and shoots people...it's government brainwashing. A jet contrail is spotted...it's a Chinese missile shot from a submarine. The governemnt passes health care reform...they want to kill us all.


Honestly...what are you worried that will happen?




posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Proto my friend, as usual, great information delivered with class and spot on observations.
S&F

Some here are not as clever at hiding their real agenda. For a seasoned reader it's almost too obvious to spot them. My question, for some of the members who are not as versed in the Cognitive Infiltration tactics is this:
Can you give some general guidelines as to what these posters may look like?
Some rather obvious ones could be immediately agreeing with the "offical story" and citing sources that see it that way too, but what would you think some other tell tale signs of these Big Brother members might be?



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
A member who had been a member for a good while but never posted out of the blue posted to one of the threads I had authored, and posting too, identifying himself as a high ranking FBI Agent of a supervisory capacity, and both cautioned and questioned me at length here in that thread as to what my ultimate ambitions or remedies were in response to the event.

He cautioned me, by telling me point blank, that what I write here on ATS travels much further and influences far more people than I likely imagine. At the time I was somewhat skeptical and dismissive of that notion, but since then I have come to realize he is write. Many of my major conspiracy threads are republished on other sites across the world and prompt lively discussions I don't know about or take part in.

His message was clear, make sure my message is clear, because my message might have a far greater impact than I might consider.


I respect what you have typed and must also accept that particular persons observations. Obviously ats does carry alot of weight, far greater than people realize and many posts and threads do find there way into areas of the law that are simply looked at, categorized and re visited for a possible links to future events. This obviously is a common practice and should not be thought as something new. Its done countless times will be done countless times.

But.....the truth be said, your posts do hold weight and are well researched, but as you pointed out, there is a price to pay when one becomes a respected member of a community.



In short....keep up the good work and fear nothing as you have nothing to fear but rather to be feared from.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Is it paranoid to look both ways before crossing a street?

I don't think so. I don't think considering and discussing this possibility is paranoid either. Just a sensible response to what is likely to be the government's sensible response to it's mounting concerns regarding the popularity of alternative news and conspiracy sites and discussion boards.

A response that I haven't made up as some wild theory, but a plan that a high ranking administration official has been determinedly pushing for quite some time now, that he himself disclosed.

That's hardly on par, with "I talk to aliens in my sleep, and the world is going to end in 27 seconds".

That you would try to liken it as such is indicative of a few things that would give mose concerned people pause to reflect on the motivations involved.

What are Infiltration Agents likely to do or accomplish? That my friend there is no telling. That would be up to the policy makers and what ever they craft into any such law, and further how such powers might then be expanded over time.

Because you are unable or unwilling to look at the possibilities does not mean the government is as dysfunctional.

Thanks for posting.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That might sound and come off as a bit tactless, but the truth is that is exactly what occured when the Congress passed the Brady Act in the wake of the failed assissination attempt on Ronald Regan that left James Brady shot through the head also, close to a wheel chair bound vegetable. They did wheel him on to the House Floor when they passed the Brady Act requiring all hand gun purchases be delayed three days from the time you purchase the gun, until you can take retail delivery of it, allowing for both background checks of the pruchaser and a 'cooling off' period for the buyer, in case they are buying the weapon to commit a crime of passion.

Let no good crisis go wasted.



I disagree with you on this, Proto. What you refer to with the slogan "let no good crisis go wasted" is often used as flawed rhetoric. Sometimes we don't realize there is a problem with the arrangements until something happens to make us see that we need to make a change. The instance above is a reflection of that. I happen to think that the 3 day waiting period is a good policy and was put in place for very good and sound reasons.

People are given "freedom" until it is misused to cause harm to others. When that happens, restraints must come into play to prevent such a continuance. Because the majority of people cannot behave someone has to "parent" the masses.

It often happens that the "good" are punished right along with the guilty. Is it fair? Idk, but perhaps it is an attempt to regulate society's behavior through peer pressure.

Why do you paint Cass Sunstein as a boogey-man? He should be as welcome as anyone else. Besides, anyone with a name like "Sun-stein" should be like a "mug" of "sun" shine and maybe he can spread some light on the issues.


ATS is where the wolves and the lambs lay down together and chew the cud.

It is good to have both sides of the issue laid out. Perhaps through adversity people will become more skilled at seeing through manipulations, "operatives", and how half-truths are played. Hopefully, people will mature through controversy and perhaps come to more rational conclusions with a peaceful outcome.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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In other words ATS just split in two groups new members and old members before to the Loughner attraction but be caution of old members selling their accounts to new member's then having a old new member



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by tristar
 





I respect what you have typed and must also accept that particular persons observations. Obviously ats does carry alot of weight, far greater than people realize and many posts and threads do find there way into areas of the law that are simply looked at, categorized and re visited for a possible links to future events. This obviously is a common practice and should not be thought as something new. Its done countless times will be done countless times.


Thanks my friend. I for one am not worried or concerned about my participation on ATS. I don't preach violent sedition, I don't conspire with others to carry out any specific goal or task contrary to the government and it's laws, and I don't engage in any conduct that would violate the terms of service against recruiting for an organization or selling a product.

So in essence I know I have nothing to worry about. I know or at least I suspect and assume that the government has bots that troll through these sites looking for various key words and phrases, and that there is some official and non-official supervision of what goes on here.

I don't let that concern me, because after all, why should I. If you aren't breaking a law, or conspiring to break a law, there is really nothing to be concerned or worried about.

I do like a pleasant posting environment though, and sometimes the uptick in agenda driven posters joining in mass to capitilize on a specific event does make that environment less than it's usually exceptionally superb one.

I do though nonetheless believe we might soon be seeing a new brand of poster, the Cognitive Infiltration Agent if the Government chooses to capitilize on this tragic even as I anticipate they will.

So I thought a thread would be in order.




But.....the truth be said, your posts do hold weight and are well researched, but as you pointed out, there is a price to pay when one becomes a respected member of a community.


I love paying that price, though it isn't quite what one would imagine. My persona on ATS is so bigger than my actual life that recently when a 'fan' was in Miami and asked to get together for a social 'drink' later they refused to believe that I had actually even attended myself. That I had sent in a stand in for 'security' reasons or some other such things.

"I don't know who you sent or why to meet with me" the fan said later in a angry phone call "But I am no dummy that sure wasn't you".

Fame is not always cracked up to be what you might imagine!

I do enjoy my online notariety and while some critics do believe I am nothing but a shameless self agrandizing ego driven narcisist, I try not to let my more admirable personality traits get in the way, of having a good time, and sharing with others and learning from others on the site.




In short....keep up the good work and fear nothing as you have nothing to fear but rather to be feared from.


Thanks my friend, and I concure, the truth is that if the site recieves an additional level of notice and involvement from the government or powers that be, it is only because of the fact that the site is a formidible one that reaches a lot of people around the world, and does foster some very credible views and theories.

They have as always a lot more to fear than any of us do.

Lonely lies the head that wears the grown.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Is it paranoid to look both ways before crossing a street?


I don't see how this compares to what you are doing. Looking both ways before crossing a street is logical because everyone knows cars travel on roads.

Keeping tabs on new members because you think they are working for the government...is just plain paranoia. You don't "know" they are your so called "infiltrators"...you just have a paranoid feeling that someone in Washington cares so much about what you write on this website..that they have to track you...or at the least...come on here to discredit you. It's paranoia...like it or not.


That you would try to liken it as such is indicative of a few things that would give mose concerned people pause to reflect on the motivations involved.


I did no such thing in trying to liken your post with those theories. I was using those as examples of the outlandish theories already floating around ATS and to show that ATS is already filled with misinformation. My point was that for someone to come and actively try to push mis or dis information...it is pointless because ATS already does that on it's own.


What are Infiltration Agents likely to do or accomplish? That my friend there is no telling.


HA...love that answer. They are going to do something very very evil...but we don't know what...it could be ANYTHING. Again...more paranoia...you are fearing the unknown...no no...you are fearing EVERYTHING.

Just out of curiosity...I would just like to hear one thing you think these "infiltrators" could do...just one.


Because you are unable or unwilling to look at the possibilities does not mean the government is as dysfunctional.


Meh...I just know that this website is more entertainment value than anything else...and it would be a waste of resources for the government to overly concern itself with it.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by exactmad
In other words ATS just split in two groups new members and old members before to the Loughner attraction but be caution of old members selling their accounts to new member's then having a old new member


Not at all, I question why anyone would reach to such an over simplification.

One thing is for certain ATS is a critical environment where ALL members are constantly gauged and questioned on their views, opinions and posting habits, because it is such a diverse environment as Alethea pointed out.

There are all types here, but be honest, did you read the thread I linked to at the end of my opening piece I authored a year ago about Cass Sunstein's plans?

Do you really believe trying to boil down the Original Post to this one, of New Members versus Old Members is fair when it comes to considering the actual message of the thread.

That message is simple too: The Government wants cognitive infiltration of the Internet, the Government usually implements now laws and initiatives as a response to a crisis, a crisis has occured that would be IDEAL for implementing such a law and a thing as Cognitive Infiltration.

That's what the thread is about, and trust me, I am arguably one of the most popular members of ATS but even my most ardent fans, often question and challenge what I post.

That's all part of the critical thinking process that takes place on ATS.

Post honestly, post what you feel is true, do it politely, and chances are each and everyone of them is going to be gauged by it's merrits, not some nonsensical notion of the date you joined the site.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Q. Hows does this thread help ATS, or enhance the community here?

A. It doesn't.

Sensationalism, McCarthysim and overt paranoia simply doesn't work.

Of course, that is just my opinion


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 





I don't see how this compares to what you are doing. Looking both ways before crossing a street is logical because everyone knows cars travel on roads.

Keeping tabs on new members because you think they are working for the government...is just plain paranoia. You don't "know" they are your so called "infiltrators"...you just have a paranoid feeling that someone in Washington cares so much about what you write on this website..that they have to track you...or at the least...come on here to discredit you. It's paranoia...like it or not.



Actually it is identical to looking both ways before crossing the street.

If you walk into a crowded bar room you have never been in before do you give all the patrons a once over? Do you notice the big guy with the muscle shirt and the tatoos in the corner playing pool with the skiny guy who looks like he is wired? Do you see the girl sitting at the corner of the bar, with her hands in the jacket pocket of the drunk she is flirting with picking his pocket? Do you see the two nice attractively dressed women sipping wine at a center floor table, or the two guys wearing leather jackets off in an other corner passing bills and bags back and forth discretely, what about the guy standing at the bar eyeing them with two wallets, one in each back pocket, one for his cash and cards, the other for his badge, with the cowboy boots to hide his gun, sipping coffee because he's on duty?

Maybe not, but I sure do, because it's called situational awareness.

When the door opens there in the bar and you feel that rush of fresh air penetrating the smoke, and the flash of street light, do you turn to see who walked through, or are you just busy chewing the cud and grazing?

Situational Awareness is key to survival in this world.

No where in this thread have I said new members should be kept tabs on.

This is the third post where you have deliberately misportrayed what I have said and what this thread is about.

@CherryOnTop follow along with some of these exchanges and you will see exactly what to look for.




I did no such thing in trying to liken your post with those theories. I was using those as examples of the outlandish theories already floating around ATS and to show that ATS is already filled with misinformation. My point was that for someone to come and actively try to push mis or dis information...it is pointless because ATS already does that on it's own.


So in other words (To borrow one of your tricks) you are posting semi-off topic, and rehashing what I myself pointed out in the opening piece you seem to want to constantly misportray.

My point is the powers that are invested in a NEW totally NEW BRAND of Official Government Agent that might soon pop up, might in fact create a different animal all together than those who presently exist.

That's what the thread is about, spotting NEW TRENDS and BEHAVIORS being deployed, by being on the lookout for them, by considering that they might be coming into play before they even too.

It's called anticipating changes my friend, and while you might imagine the world stays the same, it is constantly changing on us.

Thos who anticipate the changes are rise to their challenges tend to lead a longer healthier more enriching and successful life than those who don't.




HA...love that answer. They are going to do something very very evil...but we don't know what...it could be ANYTHING. Again...more paranoia...you are fearing the unknown...no no...you are fearing EVERYTHING.

Just out of curiosity...I would just like to hear one thing you think these "infiltrators" could do...just one.
.


Please point out to me where I sadi they were going to be very evil. Once again this is a willful misrepresentation of what I said for dramatic effect, that totally obscures what I have in fact said.

In my opening post I used words like 'reasonable' response, and 'favorable' too, and other words and phrases like in 'all fairness', some how you have managed to totally reinvent this as "Very Evil".

Honestly no offense, but your tactics call into question your motives.




Meh...I just know that this website is more entertainment value than anything else...and it would be a waste of resources for the government to overly concern itself with it.


So far I have to confess I find nothing particularly valuable or noteworthy in your opinions, not to be disparaging, but clearly you are out to both deminish the site, limit it's relevance, slander the Original Post, and the Original Poster, in your deceptively crafted paraphrasing, sumations and editorials.

If the government was not concerned with the site, why would a Government Official like Cass Sunstien write a book and do a policy statement on Cognitive Infiltration?

If the government had no concerns at all why would so many members be voluntary law enforcement officers weighing on on the 'virtues' of their profession when ever threads pop that are disparaging or critical of law enforcement offences?

No my friend, you are either seeking a whole lot of attention for attentions sake with these comments or you yourself consider this all to be far more important than you are letting on.

I would wager the latter and not the former.

Thanks for sharing.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



In a nut shell it’s the belief that you are relying on to few and the wrong sources for your news, opinions and views.

Sunstein’s theory is that people prone to believe in and investigate conspiracies become more or less ‘isolated’ on sites like ATS and end up developing opinions and views by over reliance on too few sources of information, where to be fair to the premise of the theory, the information being put forth is poorly researched, or deliberately incomplete to paint a false and misleading picture


Interesting statement Proto, what he is really saying is that we should only rely on mainstream news and sources that are spoon fed to us without questioning anything we see, read or hear. Their biggest nightmare is people who seek the alternative to find truth. Intelligent posters do not rely on ATS alone, it called backing up their claims by diligent research.

The mainstream get it wrong all the time, a tragic example is they reported U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords dead for over an hour on CNN, MSNBC etc., they jump the gun all the time in the name of sensationalism and never apologize for it.

Excellent opening post and points my friend.

S&F



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Q. Hows does this thread help ATS, or enhance the community here?

A. It doesn't.

Sensationalism, McCarthysim and overt paranoia simply doesn't work.

Of course, that is just my opinion


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


Actually in truth when I first broke the Cass Sunstien Plan for Cognitive Infiltration of Internet Sites, Johnny Anonymous picked it up on the ATS News, and it was a very popular thread.

I linked it in my opening piece.

That sure didn't seem to detract from the community at that point in time, so please explain if you would, what has happened in the last year, that makes discussing Cognitive Infiltration, sensationalism, McCarthyism and overt paranoia.

Further, what will you say in response if six months from now such a Bill is on the Floor of the House of Representatives and is voted into law?

Are you honestly going to say the nature of the political beast is not to formulate new laws and policies as a direct response to tragic incidents?

I cited the Brady Act as one such notable and very REAL example in my opening piece.

That was a very real response by the government based on the very real occurence of the assassination attempt on Ronal Regan.

While additional gun control measures are certainly possible as initiatives that also might come out of this, the National Rifle Association maintains a powerful lobby in Washington D.C., the easy score for Congress would be over a far less organized community.

That community being the Internet.

Regardless I have stated no absolutes, and this is published in General Conspiracies for a reason.

I believe this is coming at us, it wouldn't have been published and floated by the Government previously if it wasn't in the works.

What do they need to sell it to the public, a reason.

Now they have a reason, I reject any notions that the thinking isn't sound here.

Thanks.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Lot of words there.

Let 'em come in.

They won't know whether they are shot, f*cked, powder-burnt, or snake bit, such are the diverse opinions on this site.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


In your reply to me...you both say I am mis-representing your view by saying you are paranoid about government dis-info agents coming on here to discredit you...and you also give a suggestion that I am a government disinfo agent.



I'll keep it simple...my responses are my opinion of your thread...and in a nutshell it is that you (and a lot of ATSers) are overly paranoid and think way too highly of yourself and your writings on this website.


That is all.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:40 PM
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I agree with the assumption of "cognitive infiltration" but that's not really what it is.

It is really making certain "agendas" more and more "salient" in the public's mindset. A group or population which has no formal skills as critical thinking and logic, will be more-apt to accept an agenda if they are in a larger group which does...this is called "group-think."

"Group Think" can be useful when the group is correct and projects move-ahead and are a success, but when groups are wrong, "group think" can be used to pressure one person to "go along" with the group, being wrong, and running-off the cliff as a result.

Media do have effects, it's innate with Human Beings; a red flashing animation in a corner of a web-page will attract the eye first. This is directly-related to "Fight or Flight" response especially when located in the peripheral of a person's vision. This is why you have those ads in upper-right or left-hand corners of websites. Most people have trained themselves to ignore these, but the fact remains; media do have effects and some of them are not positive.

Trekwebmaster, AAS BS in Digital Film / Mass Communications Minor



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Excellent op and excellent thread.

The op conclusion, that we should be aware ATS discussions will be infiltrated by 'big brother', does have a silver lining. Members of this board will have the opportunity of presenting an argument in the knowledge that the points made may filter up to tptb.

Who knows while they're here maybe we can even show a few of them 'the light'.

There's nothing to fear for ATS or for individual members I would suggest. Boards like this are more likely to be used to gauge peoples' concerns and perspectives. That collated information in turn would be utilised to identify the most effective means of introducing us to new social/economic/political concepts.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


In your reply to me...you both say I am mis-representing your view by saying you are paranoid about government dis-info agents coming on here to discredit you...and you also give a suggestion that I am a government disinfo agent.



I'll keep it simple...my responses are my opinion of your thread...and in a nutshell it is that you (and a lot of ATSers) are overly paranoid and think way too highly of yourself and your writings on this website.


That is all.


Premiss 1: Govt. Disinfo Agents are well-versed in methods of communications and ways to "spin and sanitize" media.

Premiss 2: Govt. Disinfo Agents succeed in "Ad Hominem" fallacies where lay-persons do not.

Conclusion: You are not a disinfo agent due to the use of a failed "Ad Hominem" fallacy which neither was well-formed or contained any steps necessary in order to prove a logical argument.

To have a valid argument, you must have these: valid premisses and valid conclusions, not one can be a fallacy or your argument is false and fallacious which makes it invalid.

Opinions can be made more credible by including a valid argument.
edit on 11-1-2011 by trekwebmaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


In your reply to me...you both say I am mis-representing your view by saying you are paranoid about government dis-info agents coming on here to discredit you...and you also give a suggestion that I am a government disinfo agent.



I'll keep it simple...my responses are my opinion of your thread...and in a nutshell it is that you (and a lot of ATSers) are overly paranoid and think way too highly of yourself and your writings on this website.


That is all.


Ones again your paraphrasing gives you away my friend, as the truth is no where have I said I am worried about government agents trying to discredit 'me'.

Your need to make this about 'me' is quite telling.

So to is your obvious deflection away from the Sunstein Book and Papers, the fact that he is the White House Information Czar and the fact that the Government has in the past, used attacks on Government Officials specifically and especially to formulate new laws.

If you call that kind of rational thinking and anticipation paranoid, well I can only say, for some reason you feel a need to portray me as paranoid.

I believe in fact saying in my opening piece that Paranoia within the GOVERNMENT is likely to be on the rise.

Please quote where I have said or suggested you are a government disinformation agent. You seem to be 'concerned' as to how others view you, some would call this 'paranoia'.

What I said is it is suspect when a poster, uses the tactics fo deflection and paraphrasing to suggest things that haven't been said were said, and tries to base a debate off of what they invent through that process, as opposed to what really has been said, that they have willfully misrepresented through paraphrasing.

Is that a Government Disinformation Tactic? I don't know, you tell us please.

As far as being overly paranoid, that's ludicrous in my case, and a generalization that does not fit as a description reflective of my posting habits, as far as placing to much personal value on 'me' and my 'writings' I don't seem to be alone, as you seem particularly obsessed with them yourself at the moment.

Thanks for posting!



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by christina-66
Excellent op and excellent thread.

The op conclusion, that we should be aware ATS discussions will be infiltrated by 'big brother', does have a silver lining. Members of this board will have the opportunity of presenting an argument in the knowledge that the points made may filter up to tptb.

Who knows while they're here maybe we can even show a few of them 'the light'.

There's nothing to fear for ATS or for individual members I would suggest. Boards like this are more likely to be used to gauge peoples' concerns and perspectives. That collated information in turn would be utilised to identify the most effective means of introducing us to new social/economic/political concepts.


There is a lot of validity to what you wrote and shared above.

This is not a paranoia thread, and I am not promoting fear or paranoia, but simply anticipating what would be a likely government response in the wake of this situation.

The Internet does in many ways represent the pulse and group think of the masses, and the government would be foolish to not consider it and pay attention to it when it comes to long range planning and trends.

Despite some posters insistant misrepresentations to the contrary this thread is not about paranoia and fear, but simply anticipating a new environment, as you mention a response from the government, based on the actual thinking taking place within society.

Thanks for sharing.




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