To all the people who want to ban guns.

reply to post by mwc273


Interesting story, but the logic is flawed.

If you need a gun to force someone to be reasonable then you must not have much reasoning ability. By definition, reasoning implies cooperation, which means you have to be "reasonable". Not everything in life is a fight or struggle. Not everything is a power play. For some it might be, but not for most.

OK, don't start. I have accepted that in some parts of the US, but not all, everything is in fact a struggle dying to happen; but for the guns "everyone" is carrying.

Originally posted by mwc273

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat – it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed.


When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation… and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

the equal footing may be reguarded true with one on one attackers, but how many times is this the norm, are not most of these criminal elements in large groups or gangs all carrying and roaming the streets in their numbers. criminals that then consider even an armed person or targets with smaller numbers on their side as less than an equal match to the superiority of such criminals and all their arms combined.

Originally posted by Pointofview
Taken from an online article on a Norwegian news source, (2007):

5,6 murders per 100 000 citizens in U.S.A.

0.81 murders per 100 000 citizens in Norway.

In Norway, having a firearm for anything but sports or hunting is illegal unless you are in the army. Norwegian police does not bear firearms either. It's illegal to carry guns in public.

Well let us have a look at Russia. Russia has a per capita murder rate of 14.9.

There gun laws are pretty simple. No handguns and no fully automatic guns. You can have shotguns and hunting rifles. However, you must have a special (expensive) license and the gun and cartridges must be kept seperate during storage and transportation.

Venezuela has a per capita murder rate of 49. Yet, in venezuela it is illegal for any one besides police to buy a handgun.

Brazil has a per capita murder rate of 25.2 per capita. That is higher than the US and they have stricter gun laws.

In truth 49 countries have a higner murder rate than the United States. Many of them have stricter gun regulations than the United States. Yet, some how people keep pegging America as the leader in murder and trying to blame gun owners.

Some times things just don't make sense.

Tragedies like the one in Tuscon are still a statistical anomally in all honesty. However, it has held pretty steady that more people are saved every year by defensive gun use than are hurt.

Reply to post by MikeNice81

They write those other countries off as being "third world." That's how they get around that.

Cant imagine parts of Brazil being much worse than parts of New Jersey.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


So, basically they are saying that those countrys are under developed and incapable of acting civilized? It sounds rather elitist and racist for the anti-gunners to just write off so many people like that. They would never do that just to win an argument, would they?

reply to post by Rocky Black

I live in australia and to be honest our gun laws are quite good, i dont know if this is the system in america but basicaly this is the process when obtaining and maintaing a liscence: Firstlly there is a fee involved for undertaking a safety course in gun handling and saftey, secondly: upon applying for a gun liscence your application is check by the police authoritys for any criminal records or firearms offences and you must wait roughly six weeks to obtain your liscence, when applying for a gun liscence you are only permited to a particular guna type/use or class, eg: Rifle/center fire or rim shot, or a pistol liscence.For larger callibers like a 50 cal you must obtain a special liscence that permits you to use such a wepon, you also must attend meeting or comptitions on a regualr basis, if your liscence expieres the local police will come to your home and reposes the wepons until you arem permited to posses and use them again, and lastly you must store ammunition separatly to the fire arm in a locked case,store your bolt for your rifle seperatly, and hav a three point dyna bolt safe.

Wether or not these laws apply in america i do not know but baning them all together is allot nof effort but there nwould still be people who will inport them ninto civilian scociety.

reply to post by Krishnamurti


Listen coulda shoulda woulda...

If someone wants to do harm to others for any reason they will find a way to do it.

Guns ya shoot people when someone pulls the trigger.

If they have no guns they will find another route.

Columbine..

Ok he doesnt have a gun so now he carefully chains all the exit shut. Shuts off the power and molotove cocktails the # out of the building.

or he leaks propan into the building and locks them in lockers with time delay switches.

Or he jerry rigs some wiring to all metal objects and electrifies them.

I mean come on there are a million ways to hurt somone the ways are endless.

How about poison which takes a couple of days to kill you.

Think about it.

Dont just blame a gun.

I gun cannot kill someone until someone picks it up and racks one in the chamber then pulls the trigger.

If they really prosocuted these criminals then they would not be out on the street again and again..


How about the killer they let out on parole just recently and the toolbag went out just recently this just happened and he killed a cop.

Now they call on the parole board to step down.

An the headline in the Glob was.

We got a new sherrif in town refering to the finring or the parole board officials by deval patrick.

Come on are you kidding me he only did it to save his ass as they are all his morons.

Some gang banger gets a slap on the peeper and a suspended sentence.

Go figure.

Some people are just phyco's

Deal with it.

Nobody said that there are no crazy people out there who would snuff you out for no reason at all.

Just because you looked at them and the are high on meth and they turn to you and end your life for no reason what so ever.

Me,

I trust know one. I live my life to the fullest without out fear. I wake up happy with my life and the world obviously could be better place but I deal with it the best I can.

Stay alert stay alive.

RB

reply to post by skeptic_al


Right in a civilized nation and country you go over the boarder and whack someone like you said and by law get convicted of capital murder and get senteced to life in prison.

Guns have ballistics and if you go and buy one and shoot someone there are ways to track it. First lets see who got a gun in the last 30 days.

Makes a list.

Then lets look at the ammo what type where is it sold.


Who purchased the ammo when looks at survalance.

Busted.

There are some many ways that we are tracked you have no Idea.

The cameras at the entry ports to the cities in most states around here.

Do the crime and pay the time.


You nver really hear about the gun owner who saved his life and his families life.


you only hear about the kid how drove up to somones house and open fires on them.





LIFE in prison.. Does that mean anything anymore..

LIFe means LIFE man.

reply to post by skeptic_al


I know you can get a federal license whick is what most dealers have and to buy a said 50 cal would not be easy.

unless you live in mississippi or one of the southern states where you can buy high power stuff.

Around here in the north east you need a federal liscense.

I have a ex co worker I used to work with and he had his federal license.

Yes he has the big machine guns but the police know him and know that he is a specialist and he designes sniper gear and does jobs for the government and goes to govenment sactioned events where the check out govenment gear and he gets to test this equipment and make a report about the stas of the gear.

He is a responsible personable with impeccable credentials.

Legal and ligit gun dealers most of them are required to have a federal license which costs thousands of dollars.

I think it use to be like 100 bucks, but they upped the anti to keep the aveage joe from obtaining one.


I bet the ATF could look up all the Federal licenses alond the southern border with mexico and they could track data and stats and tell which one is supplying mexico with arms. Hell it is probably our on gov becasue they are all running around carring AR15's. If they looked at how much they were buying for ammo how many guns they were selling.

I mean some red flag should go off if lets say your a dealer and today you sold 15 officer model colt 45's and 15 ar 15's and 20 boxes of ammo.

Hello that is what the ATF's job is supposed to be.

Instead they are on the internet tracking down someone like you or I. Trying to lure us into gun conversations and trying to bait us like..

What is your favorite weapon when # hits the fan?

And then you get all these young in experianced kids posting firarm pictures and them talking all this crap.

Hello.

IP address kid lives at this address he has stated he has this weapon and this ammo.

Fusion center information.

Stay alert stay alive.

Originally posted by mwc273
Any law which prohibits or limits a citizen's possession of firearms of military utility or their proper furnishings, provides an open window through which a corrupt government will crawl to steal away the remainder of our firearms and our liberties. Any law which prohibits or limits a citizen's possession of firearms of military utility or their proper furnishings, being directly contrary to the letter and spirit of the Second Amendment, is inimical to the Constitution, to the United States of America, and to its citizens.

So that means america should turn into a third-world banana republic such as lebanon or palestine, where almost everyone has either an ak-47 or a rocket-propelled grenade launcher? You do realise if things keep going "south" in america, especially in regards to the economy, we might see the day where its dog eats dog or full blown racial tensions?

I am all for self-defense, hunting and sport shooting but I think fully-automatic weapons should have been banned a long time ago and the few remaining US Treasury licenses that are transferable should be torn to shreads and those assault weapons confiscated. Thats it, no more and no less!

reply to post by lioevilo


My father and grandfather were Hardcore NRA members and life long 24/7 365 legal gun owners.

My grandfather is now deceased. God rest his sole. But he never pulled it out or ever shot anyone.

Now my dad. He packs heat and packs 24/7 365. He has never had to pull it out as I have asked him. To this day he has never shot anyone either. He is also a decorated firefighter and has pulled woman and children from burning fires on many occasions over 20+ years.

Responsible people due responsible things.

RB

reply to post by Tahnya86


Those laws are alost the same as they are here.

The only thing I think may be different is that you dont have to have a license to keep it in your home. I think you need to tell the town and register it only and keep it locked and seperated from the ammo.

Say if your moms dad died and left it to you in his will and you live in the home and the gun never leaves the home.

Now to carry you must have a license. To buy ammo. you need a license.

And even though you have a license.

If I go to the gun store right now and tell him yes I want that one.

he will say ok.

You show him your license.
He says ok.

Now he say ok you have to come back in 5 days or 10 days or whatever the time frame is. I forget.

They just dont hand it over to you.

This was part of the brady law they enacted.

It kept you from getting pissed off one day and going to the gun store and going back and killing some one.

I think it is a cooling off period they called it.

reply to post by Rocky Black


By "Live Free or Die State" do you mean NH?

If so we dont have any of those laws. No registry. No licenses. No waiting period. Just a permit to carry concealed.

No specific storage laws either. Kind of like the seat belts up here. No law saying yo have to wear one. Just a lot of signs saying you should.

Lowest crime in the country right here.

Dad dies and leaves you his old rifle? You dont have to take any action whatsoever. It's yours. Walk around town with it. Take it for car trips. Go shoot it in the yard as long as you're within the legal distances from structures and property that isnt owned by you. Wear it around your neck all day like jewelry.

Plenty of other states have registries and storage laws and waiting periods and all that crap. They also have high crime rates. Not NH.

Originally posted by TimBrummer
You are correct about attitude, if the US did like Switzerland and enforced immigration laws, deported illegal aliens, and treated drug abuse as a medical condition rather than criminal violation, we would have a much lower firearm homicide rate of around .58 like Switzerland does. You could blame both parties for increasing the gun death rate by not doing the above. I think Ron Paul is about the only US politician who wants to do all of the above, rather than just part or none of it.

edit on 16-1-2011 by TimBrummer because: (no reason given)

Spot on friend! Most of the USA laws are in favor of the mafia/gangs and most importantly the cia/nsa dictatorship. All of these groups answer to the world elite, aka nwo, before they answer to any american citizen.

By criminalising drugs and prostitution it chokes the supply and makes the price go way up. John Gotti during his criminal trial said it best...You can't compete with the government! At that time I bet most people had no clue what he was talking about but hindsight proves he was no lunatic. Ask yourself, if drugs are illegal then why are the cities flooded with dope peddlers? It might help to know that only 10% of all ship containers get x-rayed at the point-of-entry for starters. And I am not going to talk about why panama got invaded and manuel noriega got 20 years in a federal penetentiary. Lets just say they couldn't agree on "the cut" rate...

As for illegal immigration...well the federal government made its position crystal clear after arizona decided to act on its own due to dhs "incompetance" and the speech by obama kissing the mexican presidents ass in congress was despicable to say the least. Those who make the laws make them for themselves and their cronies...they could not give a rats ass about the people!

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I know. Thats right . I was refering to Ma. as the gun laws there are brutal.

I live on the border. In NH.

What Are you on the border souther or north.
I'm bordering Salem NH.

I have not checked lately. But I though you need a drivers license only to purchase a handgun.

I dont think you get it that day do you?

RB

Live Free or Die.

Dont you love that moto.

reply to post by Rocky Black


Im in the center of the state.

You do need a drivers license or state ID to show that you are a resident. You do get the handgun that day. Fill out the form, 30 second phone call for the background check and you leave with the gun.

NH has a funny background check system. The state instituted it's own system to get around some of that Clinton AWB crap back in the day. Now that the AWB is gone the states system is redundant and a waste. You call the state then the state checks with the fed. Rather than just you calling the fed.

There is a similar state "FFL" too that was set up to give the state the power rather than the fed but it's just become a sort of "tax" for dealers imposed by the town the shop is in. Up here it doesnt matter so much. Most towns wont even charge. But in places like Concord and Nashua where the Massholes have infiltrated they charge crazy amounts. Could potentially become a de-facto ban. Hopefully it gets killed with this new legislature.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Thanks man.


Live free or die my friend.

RB out.

reply to post by Rocky Black


I'll simply quote someone far smarter than I. This is my sentiment towards all who advocate for a nanny state in any form, for any "for the common good" reason. Be it gun control, smoking bans, or a host of other social hot buttons.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals. " -C.S. Lewis

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Rocky Black

 

Im in the center of the state.

You do need a drivers license or state ID to show that you are a resident. You do get the handgun that day. Fill out the form, 30 second phone call for the background check and you leave with the gun.

NH has a funny background check system. The state instituted it's own system to get around some of that Clinton AWB crap back in the day. Now that the AWB is gone the states system is redundant and a waste. You call the state then the state checks with the fed. Rather than just you calling the fed.

Yeah the redundacy and fees are bad but what do they check for? Felonies, misdemeanors, mental illness?

Is there a limit to how many guns you can legally own per person and what kind?