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To all the people who want to ban guns.

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posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by tribaltrip
Sorry Canada... Sorry John A McDonald.

But if there is one thing those Americans have right. It's their right to defend themselves, both from ruthless thugs and our government.


I donno if they have it right...but what they do have is the right.

Not something I'm looking for.
edit on 12-1-2011 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


Well I am a self employed, martial artist, "gun nut", happily single, no offspring, that doesn't have much at all. Just a down to earth guy, with not much to lose, that does not allow myself to be pushed around and threatened.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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There's a very simple adage, that no doubt has already been said in this thread...

"If you outlaw guns...only outlaws will have them".

This is especially true in a country like America, where the right to have them is not only common practice for decades (heck, over a couple centuries), but a guaranteed right by the Constitution.

I don't know about you, but I'd certainly think twice before committing a gun crime in Texas. You never know what housewife is going to pull a 357 out of her purse!


It wouldn't have stopped this recent tragedy, or any others like it (the guy would have just used a bomb instead...etc., probably resulting in even more loss).


Some of us really would rather die, than let some lowlife scum order us around and take what we sweat and bled to earn. Hard for some people to understand, but it is true.


You can regain lost earnings, and dignity...but you can't regain life, or your loved ones' lives. Sorry, but the guy with the gun gets my money (and everything I can do to make sure he's found and prosecuted). The best thing you can do in this situation is take every moment to memorize every detail of the guy, so you can then help the authorities find him and lock him up. Write it down, right after the encounter. Where, what time, what clothes, color of eyes, hair, approximate height, weight, and other details.
edit on 12-1-2011 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by tribaltrip
 


If you really think the Americans have it right I suggest you move there. The only reason any problem exists in Canada with guns at all is because of the Americans.

We've got a problem in the GTA and you want to make it universal to the rest of Canada? Real smart that is. No thank you very much. Windsor, a small city, sure, had "0" murders in 2010 in spite of being right next to Detroit. I'd like to keep it that way.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by wayno
 


I would love to know how you blame canada's gun problems on americans... There is no universal ban on guns in canada.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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Here is my post on a similar discussion:



Firstly, I do not own a gun, but let me give you a concrete example of "gun control" we have had up here in Canada.

In 1995 bill c-68 was passed to create a fire-arm registry. It is still legal to own a gun, only you must provide proof of license and register all your guns with the RCMP (our version of the FBI).

It had a budget of $2 million... by today it cost over $1 billion ... that is 500 x's more! (then again, I guess that is pretty par for any government project.)

Here is the astonishing kicker... criminals did not line up to register their guns. (I know, who would ever have thunk it!?!)

Our

Auditor General's report found that the program does not collect data to analyze the effectiveness of the gun registry in meeting its stated goal of improving public safety. The report states:
The performance report focuses on activities such as issuing licenses and registering firearms. The Centre does not show how these activities help minimize risks to public safety with evidence-based outcomes such as reduced deaths, injuries and threats from firearms.[7]

Former Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Julian Fantino is opposed to the gun registry, stating in a press release in 2003:
We have an ongoing gun crisis including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them.

Source

An interesting debate which is rarely, if ever, touched on would be a harsher control on arms manufacturers. It is not a hobbyist's basement project to build an m-16 or an ak-47, these are built and sold by legitimate manufacturers who, I'm sure, are easy to find.



This goes to show that the reason there is so much more violent crime in the U.S.A. than in Canada has a root cause other than gun regulation.


Originally posted by buddha
they should band (sic) drugs too! then it would stop all the drug crime.


Well not quite, but DECRIMINALIZING drugs would stop drug crime, because, by definition it would no longer be a crime. This is an interesting talking point. If you give me a car to sell, and I don't give you the money after having sold it, you take me to court and the conflict is dealt with. BUT, if you give me a kilo of coke to sell, and I don't give you the money, your only option for "justice" becomes a violent one.

Another member brought up POVERTY as a root cause of violence... very interesting talking point as well.



Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 13 to 17% of Americans living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time, and roughly 40% falling below the poverty line at some point within a 10-year time span. Poverty is defined as the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.[1] Approximately 43.6 million Americans were living in poverty in 2009, up from 39.8 million in 2008.[2]
Source

To put that in perspective, that is more than the entire population of Canada, living in poverty, in the wealthiest nation on earth.

The last thing I will touch on is the reality of using a firearm to defend oneself.
A life or death situation, is accompanied by a massive rush of adrenaline leaving all but the most highly trained people in these situations unable to act out complex motor movements. Surprisingly, the use of a firearm has been shown to be a complex motor movement, and even some law enforcement officers find themselves unable to hit someone at point blank range.
So the reality of it is, without elite situational training, even a firearm is not much help.

the Billmeister



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by stonergeek
 


no police should have guns either, and only special permits for hunters that take at least 1 year to pass for hunters.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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Reply to post by TKDRL
 


I wonder who would blamed should America adopt a ban and the deaths continue? Because the deaths will continue. Just as they do in every nation on Earth without and with bans.

America with it's image gets to play scapegoat for the ills of the rest of the world. When that scapegoat is gone who will they blame? Dissidents? Radicals? Immigrants? Who will they blame?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by GeneralAwesome
 


Your a slave without a gun, I disagree. This is how it is in many european countries including ireland, and we are far from slaves.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
And I'll bet that's because you're a self-employed former special forces who has a gorgeous wife, a litter of genius children, and a swollen, thick bank account, too, right? And you ride dinosaurs in space in your spare time? Your mentor was a ninja shaolin monk? C'mon man, it's the internet, if you're going to be ridiculously awesome, at least make it cinematic.
You are pretty funny, I give you that. I am divorced, ex-military but not special forces, definitely not rich or even all that well off any more though I am totally debt free. I have 2 great kids, genius? I don't know my daughter might be. I have studied jujitsu for almost 35 years and have been in combat as well as bar room brawls. I don't count competitions because of the rules involved. I have been stabbed in the left shoulder and shot at. And yes if that dumb ass gets that close to me I could kill him with my bare hands. Would I take a bullet? Maybe. Would he die, yes.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by fianna
 


lol and if the Irish government up and decided one day to eliminate your civil rights, whats in place to stop them?

Anything other than some stern words from the citizens?



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by wayno
 

I would love to know how you blame canada's gun problems on americans... There is no universal ban on guns in canada.

The vast majority of our illegal hand guns are smuggled in from the US...a country with more lax laws. I'm not 'blaming' Americans, per se, but I'm saying that your loose laws have an impact on the guy next door, eh?



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Perhaps Canada should tighten up its border security if it has a problem with guns crossing the border.

Blame your Canadian government.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:18 AM
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Reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Haven't heard that before. I assume some smuggling happens. No problem getting coc aine or heroin anywhere so why should guns be any different?

Recent evidence has shown many of the guns going from the US to Mexico have actually been brought over by the ATF.

Any numbers on how many firearms involved in crimes in Canada have been illegally smuggled in from the US?

I know just transporting one through to Alaska is a ridiculously absurd task with permits and fees and inspections.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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I live in Portugal. Here we cant have weapons freely. Thats why we have a small crime rate linked to the use of guns. A society where the inhabitants are armed is dangerous and scary! If you bump into someone having a bad day you might get killed... I have friends who lived in the US and they say that people are not that relaxed in the daily life, they say there is a tension in the air, people might snap and grab a gun... and sometimes they do.
And the government, you don't fight the government with home guns, thats a fantasy!
You must have the military with you, if you want to take down the government.
Thats how the Portuguese revolution occurred in April 25th, 1974.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by GeneralAwesome
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Perhaps Canada should tighten up its border security if it has a problem with guns crossing the border.
Blame your Canadian government.


Sure thing...an American taking me to task over border security. I know...let's get them to touch people's junk!


You'll notice I didn't attach blame, but I certainly identified a trend.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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A small comparison...

In 2006...

42,642 people were killed in traffic accidents according to the U.S. DOT

There were 30,896 gun deaths in the U.S:
12,791 homicides (41% of total deaths)
16,883 suicides (55% of total deaths)
642 unintentional shootings (2% of total deaths)
360 from legal intervention (1.2% of total deaths)
220 from undetermined intent (.8% of total deaths)
According to the CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2009.

Moire alarming, there were 430,000 deaths from smoking.
This is according to the CDC.

So... according to the OP's rational, cars and cigarettes should also be banned.
Anyone care to second that motion?



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by Manula
 


"A society where the inhabitants are armed is dangerous and scary! If you bump into someone having a bad day you might get killed... I have friends who lived in the US and they say that people are not that relaxed in the daily life, they say there is a tension in the air, people might snap and grab a gun... and sometimes they do. "

I cannot remember the last time I was having a bad day when someone bumped into me and I shot them...
And it would sound like your friend lives in a questionable part of town.


edit on 12-1-2011 by freshwreckage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:26 AM
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You can take my guns, when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.



posted on Jan, 12 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Is there any proof of that? I have no dog in the fight really, or maybe more accurately I have two dogs in the fight, I am a dual citizen lol. It would be way easier to buy a stolen handgun from another province, than smuggling over the border I would assume though. Here we can have handguns(maritime area) but need a permit to do so. I had to sell my handguns before I moved here, although I probably could have smuggled them over in our giant uhaul. Literally though, me pops and my uncle pooled resources and caravanned up, pops drove the mac truck uhaul, my uncle pulled our motorcycles, and I got to drive a suburban full of guns. You should have seen the expressions on people's faces when they ask if I had any weapons, and I said yep, 52 guns, 5 bows, a bunch of swords and knives. Took us 8 hours to go through and fill out all the paperwork, what a nightmare that was lol.



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