Crime in the US

KrazyJethro, slavery is no more. Racism is no longer instituionalized.It is that there are no role models, as I have stated.

Originally posted by Saphronia
Well, African Americans live in communities that are under constant survillance. Dead bodies aren't buried in back yards for years without folk findin them...shoot---okay Jesus must be on a smoke break.

Drugs and murder go hand and foot and black folk are usually your friendly neighborhood drug dealers. Its easy money for any poor man--its not because they are black and simply more violent. Many folk from all walks of life make that same decision. You can't equate race with a dumb decision.

Did you know that 84% of the people serving time for meth are white. So why come there isn't a thread about white folk being speed freaks and thus worthy of any scorn put upon them by the Nation of Islam. We can generalize all day long about what white folk do and what black folk do but at the end of the day its about what you do and don't do, in other words, worry about yourself. Your point of view on black people is insignificant cause to tell you the truth not one black person could give a f.....where are you when I need you Jesus. Anyways take yo opinon and stick it in your pocket...sorry mods.

So You have made the point that they are willing to make easy money even if it means killing? And When does drug dealing (black or white) become friendly?

Originally posted by TACHYON


So You have made the point that they are willing to make easy money even if it means killing? And When does drug dealing (black or white) become friendly?

Drug dealing becomes friendly when it becomes legal. When was the last time you saw the employees of your local bar shooting each other over turf? when was the last time you heard of someone stealing a tv so he could get a pack of cigs.? Do liquor store owners go to the playgrounds and force 12 year olds to drink so they will have new customers?

Government control of the economy and the drug was is the problem. A poor American cant do anything to make money unless its for a corp. Try baking food and selling it out of your home to the people on your block. Sounds innocent, but it would be illegal in many places. Want to do peoples hair to make a little extra cash? not without a licence your not. and how do you get said licence? Why, all you have to do is go to cosmotology school for 2 years. Whats that? You say you did? Well, now you need to either get a storefront or have your homes zone changed to comercial. Then the saftey inspections, fire codes. Oh, and you cant let your kids live there, because of the chemicals. What? Its the same hair-spray millions use in their homes? well, sorry, its the law. Why is it like that in this example? Because, believe it or not, the HAIR DRESSERS actualy lobby politicians to enact these laws in order to keep cheap competition out of their state, instead of letting the free market decide the price of a hair cut. It is like this in nearly every other field as well. we make it hard.
So they just say "f#!k it, my cousin can start me slingin" and next thing you know you have a drug dealer/murderer.
Of course its more complicated than that, but this is the short, and I have to go to work anyway.

Originally posted by TACHYON
KrazyJethro, slavery is no more. Racism is no longer instituionalized.It is that there are no role models, as I have stated.

My mistake. I guess that it has had no effect on current society. You are putting too much stock into role models. Role models mean about jack # to kids in general unless you are talking about their parents, which is who they should be in the first place.

But when they see their parents listening to music that has the word "Nigger" in it 79 times, and talks only of sex, money, drugs, or killing.

This is not lack of role models my friend. This is a self distructive culture, which is only part of a compiling cuture that is the same way.

Personally, I think that parenting can and will overcome culture to instill at least proper behavior. This is why many can listen to rap and not be bothered by it.

The problem is, is that parenting is going away. This is not even a black thing anymore. Black culture includes white kids, asian kids, black kids, etc.

When a child is without strong guildance and structure, they seek to fold themselves into something. Culture is so strong with TV, music, advertisements, movies, the internet, etc.

Should these things be monitored more? NO.
Should parents step up to the plate? YES.

There in lies the problem, but culture babies are not going to stay with their wives or support their kids. These people are mad for no reason.

TACHYON: Drugs aren't bad and those that sell them aren't necessarily bad (just ask your doctor). Their are a lot of drug dealers that don't kill people and on the flip side end up getting killed themselves...a few years ago in Indy we had a group of bad cops that went around robbing drug dealers and burning them alive in their cars. Just as not all cops are out their to hurt people but to do their job--same goes for drug dealers...imo.

If we are going to question the choice to sell drugs, then we also have to question why someone chooses to take drugs. Without abusers there wouldn't be any dealers or drug-related murders. I don't believe drugs and murder are a black problem. Its an american problem its just easier to pick the guy up on the street selling crack. We live in a society so addicted to feeling good and things that make you feel good that most are willing to trade in their lives for it. Bad choices know no race just as poverty and just as selfishness. Selfishness has become the new american mentality. I suppose that's where the lack of guidance comes into play. We have to teach the youth to think in terms of community and not just black youth but all american youth. Bottom line--we have to overthrow the government...imo....j/k...kinda.

Of course it is an American problem, and the laws need to be toughened.

Originally posted by TACHYON
Of course it is an American problem, and the laws need to be toughened.

That's all you have to say? Hmm...

Anyway, sure, we can toughen the laws, pour more money into it, build more jails, create a bigger culture of prisoners, and dent the drug supply barely at all.

That sounds like money well spent to me.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

That's all you have to say? Hmm...

Anyway, sure, we can toughen the laws, pour more money into it, build more jails, create a bigger culture of prisoners, and dent the drug supply barely at all.

That sounds like money well spent to me.

Amen. I thought I was the only one who still subscribed to this line of thought.

[edit on 31-7-2004 by cavscout]

We are a country so backwards as to have drug users in jail. Prison should be reserved for those who have committed crimes against society, and smoking a joint is NOT a crime against society. Prisons are over-populated, yet they still clear out violent felons to make room for drug users. The reason marijuana is illegal is simple, the tobacco and alcohol industries have huge sway over our government, this has to stop. Those industries know if marijuana was de-criminalized their industry would take a HUGE hit (no pun intended). Alcohol and tobacco a far more destructive in so many ways, yet are legal. HOW CAN PEOPLE BE SO BLIND??? Do they still believe reefer madness? And those who use other drugs that are more destructive need help to get off them, not prison, once they have been to prison and are convicted felons, they have little chance of building their lives back up, and its no wonder once they get out, they go right back to the drug because theres little opportunity or hope for them once theyve been branded a criminal. Alcoholism has been officially labeled a disease, why would drug addiction be any different? You dont lock people up because they have a disease, you try and treat the disease and be compassionate. Those who support stiffer penalties for drug users, should also believe that the alcoholic in your family be locked up too. On the other subject of young parents subjecting their kids to vulgar rap music, its your right to do so, but good luck when your child becomes a product of what has been soaked into his head since birth, start a bail fund now. I do not listen to rap in the presence of my son, except maybe Beastie Boys, Run DMC, etc. back when rap didnt have to be about murder and pimpin hos to sell.

Not all hiphop is murder and pimpin ho's to sell--that's the commericalized version of hiphop. I don't listen to it either and you right the old school stuff is bangin but check out some folk like Mos Def, Blackalicious, J-live, AesopRock, Common, Roots, Talib Kweli, and Kanya West they do they thing on the positive. There is negative in everything not all hiphop is what you see on Mtv. oh well. Gotta protect my culture, now back to thread.

Not that this is on topic (well sort of), but Mos Def is incredible.

I love em

It's just so irritating that everything still has to come down to race in this country.

The amount of crime has little do with the race of the individual. The truth is there are bad people and good people in every sex and race.

We need to escape this race calling, people who are unable to think in an advance manner automatically bring everything down to race.

I don't like rap music or hip/hop.. I don't blame the music for increased crime. A person has a choice.... either they listen to it or not. I blame the individual himself. Some can handle the content in the music.. other's can't. It's a fact of life.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by RedOctober90]

We are not so much talking about race, as we are talking about culture.

If you deny that there is a culture of single parents, cheating, sex, violence, and the like out there sensationalizing sex to the point of twelve year old whores, then fine.

But it's there. It didn't grow out of nothing.

Young children are sponges, trust me I have a 3 yr old. Not that any music causes crime, but if certain ideas are pounded into their heads from birth, its gonna be a lot harder for them to differentiate what is right and wrong. And I did mean mainstream rap, I like Mosdef and Del the Funky Homosapien, etc. But the corporate monsters do not care about consequences of their product, just like the tobacco and alcohol industries.

The reason is not the culture (although I don't think you were eluding to that).

Culture, and especially a nasty one, has been prevelent from day one. The difference is parenting in my opinion. There will always be either the same amount of evil or a cyclic occurance of great evil always depending on what scale you look at.

But now there seems to be something that the Romans discovered too late. The only ones who can stop a giant is the rot from the inside. We too will have our huns baring the right amount of pressure so that we collapes under our own wieght.

That is a bet you can count on.

I dont think it could be called culture, a peoples culture to me (black, white, etc.) dates far back and is the essence of what we are today, the problem now is this neo-urban culture that is being created unwittingly by putting rappers (as an example) that rhyme about murder, disrespect for women, etc. up in the highest level of society, and flaunting it with shows on MTV like cribs that shows kids if you want 16 cars, you'd better start slappin hos. Thats wrong. But its whats selling now, Im not talking about true legitimate underground hip-hop. Do you think if Will Smith came out with another album today it would go anywhere? No way. But youre right, it is the cancer inside that we are ignoring and continuing to pay these negative S.O.B's millions of dollars to spread that will be the downfall of our society. Dont get me wrong, I would be a hypocrite to say I live totally free of "sin", but I do not expose my child to negativity, Ill let him make his own mistakes, and will try and guide him away from them, but I will not indirectly encourage him to make them by exposing him to that garbage, kids dont know these rappers are just characters created by a corporation, and we have yet to see the consequences of exposing young children to this mainstream gangsta rap. But if kids think anytime they have a disagreement with somebody, blood must be shed, Im sure the consequences will be sad.

[edit on 2-8-2004 by 27jd]

You are right 27, but at the same time it isn't just happening in hiphop. I think what's happening in hiphop is indicative of what's happening in this country...just as movies and tv, even the media, have become more vulgar so has hiphop. We can't lay it all on the door step of so called "urban" entertainment. I think some rappers see the formula for getting paid in this country and they use it to their advantage. Jay Z kinda spoke to this on the Black Album...he had nothing and the way to use his talent to get something was to "dumb down" and talk about big pimpin. Greed and selfishness will be our down fall because many can't see past anything but their own surivial and their own success. It doesn't matter what it does to the three year old child's mind as long as they get out of the projects--or get to the point where they are making 20 mill a movie. And as long as vulgarity dominiates what is seen by the people it will be popular. You can't deny that it has an effect especially on kids with no real parental influnence.

The ugly side of freedom and individualism is that self becomes more important than the collective. When that happens people stop caring about each other. The same mentality that a drug dealer uses to justify his actions or a bank robber uses to justify his actions, an entertainer uses to justify his/her actions. I gotta survive...I gotta get paid. I think many poor kids (all races) can relate to that cause no body wants to be broke. Poverty sucks specially in a nation where you can see how the other side lives. Then you got the new american mentality telling you from birth to be about self--its hard to fight when being vulgar can bring you out of poverty.

Some of us just went into debt to get a piece a paper that qualifies us to be middle class.

[edit on 3-8-2004 by Saphronia]

Thank the Gods, Krazy Jethro stepped in to this thread with some common sense. I was about to go off on those who were whining about the content of this thread without trying to debate or explore the issues here. Its as clear as the nose on my face that there is a legit point being made here, and instead of exploring it, a bunch of narrow minded people scream racism. Tsk Tsk.

Yes, it has been a fact for some time, that blacks commit more of the murders. Whites commit most serial killings and meth offenses.

But the topic here is the black murder rate. The number one cause of death for young African American males is murder, murder by thier own fellow blacks.

Hiding your head in the sand and pretending this glaring and disturbing trend does not exist does not help the problem any, it makes it worse.

I grew up in bad places, I can back up Jethro's idea here. Its a culture of self destruction and little long term planning.

Like, when i was a kid, i remeber how black kids would harrass other black kids who wanted to go to college and get a career. They called them sell outs to the white man, college is for whitey, ect. This attitude is very dangerous, and one that keeps poverty and the seeds of crime very ripe. Discouraging achievement as a white thing reflects a hatred of all things white, even those that could elevate and change the black community for the better.

Its a culture of us against them. Much better to be a ghetto rat and recieve the approval of your friends than break away from the hood and join the "man".

it is an attitude that needs to change, and hopefully, those blacks who have been successful can step up to the plate and start really encouraging, putting thier money back into thier communities, and start the trend to get rid of this mentality. Slavery is an issue, it helped start this train of thought. Why get married and stay with your mate, when slave marriages were illegal, and your kids would get sold off anyway?

Slavery legally ended 150 years aqgo. Its high time the black community woke up to this fact, and started carving a more positive future for themselves, instead of remaining at the bottom of the social and economic trash heap, where they will continue to self destruct and keep the massive divide.

As to the question of meth and whites, I can answer that. Most meth heads are poor white trash, living in smaller, boring commu7nities, meth is about the only interesting thingf to do. Also consider they come from abusive families as well, and often have not stayed in school. There is another sector of whites who do meth: the over achievers, who want to stay awake 24/7 and work too much to get more money, impress the boss, lose weight, ect.

Originally posted by Saphronia
You are right 27, but at the same time it isn't just happening in hiphop. I think what's happening in hiphop is indicative of what's happening in this country...just as movies and tv, even the media, have become more vulgar so has hiphop. We can't lay it all on the door step of so called "urban" entertainment. I think some rappers see the formula for getting paid in this country and they use it to their advantage. Jay Z kinda spoke to this on the Black Album...he had nothing and the way to use his talent to get something was to "dumb down" and talk about big pimpin. Greed and selfishness will be our down fall because many can't see past anything but their own surivial and their own success. It doesn't matter what it does to the three year old child's mind as long as they get out of the projects--or get to the point where they are making 20 mill a movie. And as long as vulgarity dominiates what is seen by the people it will be popular. You can't deny that it has an effect especially on kids with no real parental influnence.

The ugly side of freedom and individualism is that self becomes more important than the collective. When that happens people stop caring about each other. The same mentality that a drug dealer uses to justify his actions or a bank robber uses to justify his actions, an entertainer uses to justify his/her actions. I gotta survive...I gotta get paid. I think many poor kids (all races) can relate to that cause no body wants to be broke. Poverty sucks specially in a nation where you can see how the other side lives. Then you got the new american mentality telling you from birth to be about self--its hard to fight when being vulgar can bring you out of poverty.

Some of us just went into debt to get a piece a paper that qualifies us to be middle class.

[edit on 3-8-2004 by Saphronia]

I agree completely, and I only used rappers as an example because music is the most common influence on children and young adults, movies can be negative too, but they do not "define" a persons social standing the way the music they listen to does. The majority of teens wont watch a violent ninja flick, and then put on ninja outfits and carry katana blades. But they will buy a DMX album (and Im guilty of enjoying DMX) and get try and emulate him, by dressing like him, carrying guns, etc. They dont see that DarkManX is a persona, a fake character who is really Earl Simmons, a normal dude who has never split anybodies wig with a machete, although he recently got busted for crack which was kinda a suprise to me. But I agree its not only rap, although its one of the most prevalent causes of youth violence compounded with poverty and lack of parental guidance of course. I just hope things get better in this country, because we need to be united as a people to deal with the problems outside it.

Skadi, I don't think u understand the black experience at all. Its kinda a shame that we have to keep going back over this. I grew up middle class (moms a nurse, pops a cop) but many in my fam didn't. I did well in school and no one ever accused me of being a sell-out. B-white black kids don't get picked on for doing well in school...they get picked on for trying to be white...surrounding themselves with only whites, only dating whites and basically sucking up to the white kids cause they hate everything about being black...tis a sickness and to most black folk its a crime to deny yourself. I am black, and that doesn't define me more than the fact that I am a woman or an american but at the same time I don't try to deny any part of myself and for black folk denying yourself is a crime and any kid seen to be doing so will get picked on. I've always been able to move in and out of both circles because I never tried to conform to either. At the same time I had parents that kept me from losing focus on the real goal and a lot of my black friends didn't have that at home.

I've tried to explain the mentality of a black drug dealer specially when they murder cause I know a few and have lost a more than a few friends in the process of growing up. It doesn't have anything to do with the color of their skin. There is a selfishness there that can only come from a person back to the wall full of greed and hunger. When you are using crime to survive there is no line to draw--you do what you have to do--you don't care what color a persons skin is. If your moms is a crackhead that smoked up ya county check and sold ya food stamps--what are you going to do to eat? How are you going to survive until you are old enough to take care of yourself? This isn't a hypothetical situation- I know folk that grew up like that. I've seen kids try to make those choices. But it seems you see the bad choices of poor white folk and not the bad choices of poor black folk. We have real problems on both sides but in the end its all the same problem and your justifications for poor white folk ring true for poor black folk.