Hey China, why are you so worked up about an Independant Taiwan

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Heh, some people in the south still think it should have been allowed to succeed. I can't answer that and I wasn't there. We're talking about now.

As far as a state succeeding, why would they? There would be no benefit to it. I expect Northern California might want to succeed from Southern Cali, but they would still be states.

Do not evade the real question please:

Will US allow any state to go independent, if they so choose?
Or should this be decided by all people of US?

Originally posted by zcheng
There is no need for argument on this topic. The interest rate will continue to rise.

You call that a reply? Get real. You don't know a thing about economics.
Interest rates rise and fall, but they are only a part of an economy. There are other factors that have to be taken into account as well.
The only reason there is no need for argument is because you can't argue on a subject you're ignorant of!!!

Now what about the robust and growing US economy?

What about it? If you're trying to imply that it isn't robust or growing you are sadly mistaken. The US has more growth than Europe and more than nearly every other industrialised nation on the planet.

By the way, the Tigers know who is the culprit of their crash. That is one main reason they now seek close integration with Chinese economy.

And what do you think the crash was down to? The US? Yet again, no understanding of economics. Try studying the subject. You basically had countries that had just discovered the free market but had no controls on their system or the knowledge of how to sustain growth without bust further down the line. They were riding for a fall.

If Hawaii is independent, the native will gain back their land, and flourish with tourist from around the world.

And who is going to invest in this market? China? The natives? Where are these tourists going to come from?
I love your earlier statement that if only 0.1% of Chinese went on holiday to Hawaii, they would sustain the island's economy. The problem is that you don't even have 0.1% of your population that could afford to go there. It's more like 0.0001%. Even then, would they all go to Hawaii? I think if I ran a nation and it relied solely on Chinese tourism, I'd emigrate!!!!
By the way: Hawaiin tourism is flourishing without Chinese intervention. It's at a stage where it would be difficult to actually take any more tourists without damaging their ecosystem. So even if the Chinese did come along there is nothing that they could offer the Hawaiian economy.

How about you actually come up with something intelligently thought out for a change instead of complete nonsense? You say that I don't know what I'm speaking about? Plainly, I know a helluva lot more than you do about the subject.

Back to school for you. This time I suggest you pick up something other than that little red book.

Originally posted by zcheng
Do not evade the real question please:
Will US allow any state to go independent, if they so choose?
Or should this be decided by all people of US?

I have already answered that several time. However, you have failed to comment on the fact that Taiwan is historically part of China, and the dead baby in the gutter. I have asked you four times to respond to the post. I am to assume that you agree that China has no histrical claim on Taiwan, and that your government encourgaes the killing of female infants.

Why don't you stop evading questions youselfmad:

Originally posted by Leveller
You call that a reply? Get real. You don't know a thing about economics.
Interest rates rise and fall, but they are only a part of an economy. There are other factors that have to be taken into account as well.
The only reason there is no need for argument is because you can't argue on a subject you're ignorant of!!!

Go and read the following articles about US economy, google for the full articles. If you can not find it, I can find it for you.

Article One:
Inflation a top threat to economy
By: Ron Scherer, The Christian Science Monitor (69 reads)
Consumer prices have risen at a 5.5 percent annual pace for the past three months, rippling from plywood to dairy section.
NEW YORK � A cab ride in New York now costs 26 percent more than it did a year ago. In Omaha, Neb., the price of Oxboard, a stronger form of plywood, is up 187 percent over the past six months.

With inflation at 5.5%, and Interest rate now at 1.25%, do you think this can sustain?

U.S. jobless rate misses "hidden" unemployed
By: Victoria Thieberger (167 reads)
NEW YORK, June 14 (Reuters) - Buried inside the official U.S. employment report each month is a little-known figure that gives a much less rosy picture of the labor market than the headlines.
The government agency that produces the data also publishes an alternative measure that tries to capture the hidden unemployed, those who are not included in the official unemployment rate for various statistical reasons.

Do you know why this recovery is called no job recovery?

The Asset Economy
By: Stephen Roach (961 reads)
The equity bubble of the late 1990s was a transforming event in many ways for the US economy. But there is one lasting implication that stands out above all - an important transition in the character of the American growth dynamic. The income-driven impetus of yesteryear has increasingly given way to asset-driven wealth effects. For consumers, businesses, policymakers, and investors, the asset economy turns many of the old macro rules inside out. In the end, it could well pose the most profound challenge of all to sustainable recovery in the United States.

Read the article, you will understand why house bubble can not sustain, same as debt both public and private.

Chart: Comparison between 2002 crash and the 2004 situation on the Dow.
By: Nick_UK (292 reads)
"the Federal Reserve has confirmed our Stock Market Crash forecast by raising the Money Supply (M-3) by crisis proportions, up another 46.8 billion this past week. What awful calamity do they see? Something is up. This is unprecedented, unheard-of pre-catastrophe M-3 expansion. M-3 is up an amount that we've never seen before without a crisis - $155 billion over the past 4 weeks, a $2.0 trillion annualized pace, a 22.2 percent annualized rate of growth!!! There must be a crisis of historic proportions coming, and the Federal Reserve Bank of the United States is making sure that there is enough liquidity in place to protect our nation's fragile financial system. The amazing thing is, the Fed's actions mean they know what is about to happen. They are aware of a terrible, horrific imminent event. What could it be?"

We can see US stock market will be stormy the next half of 2004

There are more good article facing US economy. There are much more, if you need. Now it is your turn.

Now what about the robust and growing US economy?

What about it? If you're trying to imply that it isn't robust or growing you are sadly mistaken. The US has more growth than Europe and more than nearly every other industrialised nation on the planet.

Please show me the paper that indicate how robust is. Is house sale up? Car sale up? Export up, import down? Deficit down? Revenue up? Employment up? Inflation down? Refinacing up?
It is just time, when all these issues compound together to crash US economy.

Yet again, no understanding of economics. Try studying the subject. You basically had countries that had just discovered the free market but had no controls on their system or the knowledge of how to sustain growth without bust further down the line. They were riding for a fall.

Yes, they were like down in a well, and who drop the stone over their head. Your bashing just show your ignorance.

And who is going to invest in this market? China? The natives? Where are these tourists going to come from?
I love your earlier statement that if only 0.1% of Chinese went on holiday to Hawaii, they would sustain the island's economy. The problem is that you don't even have 0.1% of your population that could afford to go there. It's more like 0.0001%.

No need to bashing, just find you How many chinese travel abroad for holidays. Which country has the highest rise in number of tourists going abroad. If you go to Paris, you will see how many Chinese people are visiting there.

Back to school for you. This time I suggest you pick up something other than that little red book.

I guess your still in kindergarden. Why should I waste my time?

Abandoned infants are not uncommon in China, less now than before, but it's true and sad for sure. Also there's a whole range of less good aspects, behaviour, violence, crime and bad sides of China. Like with most other countries I would say. This, however, has little to do with the Taiwan issues. Taiwanese are not angels either. Actually, during my years in China I've developed more disrespect and upset feelings against taiwanese than chinese. This is of course only my personal experience.

In history, Taiwan has been a part of and apart from China several times.

Originally posted by chinalurker
Abandoned infants are not uncommon in China, less now than before, but it's true and sad for sure. Also there's a whole range of less good aspects, behaviour, violence, crime and bad sides of China. Like with most other countries I would say. This, however, has little to do with the Taiwan issues. Taiwanese are not angels either. Actually, during my years in China I've developed more disrespect and upset feelings against taiwanese than chinese. This is of course only my personal experience.

In history, Taiwan has been a part of and apart from China several times.

I feel fury when I see how the Taiwanese are treating brides from China. Those bastard should be executed.

Yeah. Slapping the missus around is much worse than leaving a dead baby in the gutter isn't it?

Do you actually live in China, ZCheng?

Originally posted by Leveller
Yeah. Slapping the missus around is much worse than leaving a dead baby in the gutter isn't it?
Do you actually live in China, ZCheng?

No, not now.

Originally posted by zcheng I feel fury when I see how the Taiwanese are treating brides from China. Those bastard should be executed.

Funny, please show me the link to the Taiwanese abuse stories? If you want I can direct you to several more chinese atrocities sites Assuming they are not censored in China..... Dead women, dead childresn, dead infants, etc etc.

Oh don't forget the doctor that is still in jail for letting the world know about SARS......

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Leveller
Yeah. Slapping the missus around is much worse than leaving a dead baby in the gutter isn't it?
Do you actually live in China, ZCheng?

No, not now.

So let me guess.... you live in america, right?

Originally posted by Leveller
So let me guess.... you live in america, right?

I am living in out of China. Why do you want to know where I live?

Why are you so frightened of giving an answer?
I ask which country you live in so that I may better gauge your political view.

Originally posted by Leveller
Why are you so frightened of giving an answer?
I ask which country you live in so that I may better gauge your political view.

If I live in US, what will be your gauge?

If I live in Canada, what will be different?

If I live in France, what will be the difference?

Because their current government has brainwashed them.. I read this article on the current party and their methods for bringing all different ideologies into one.
Into one big #ing communist idea... People over there are believing the bs their dictator feeds them just like we do over here...

It's not different really... It's all subjective reality my dear watson..
However, I don't agree with it, joe's works his ass off and gets paid the same amount as bob who doesn't lift a finger... And none of ever come out on top..
They don't get the chance to, dictators tell you how much your going to earn, how your going to live...
Look at Tienamen square... If they buck the government over there, the feds move in and blow your ass up...

Tyranny... *starts singing what a wonderful world*

Originally posted by TrueLies
Look at Tienamen square... If they buck the government over there, the feds move in and blow your ass up...
Tyranny... *starts singing what a wonderful world*

Yes. In 1989, even I was sympathizing the causes like anti-corruption of the democrazy movement. Later, the students raised their goal and stake higher and higher. Eventually they want to bring down the whole government and destablize China. When State of Emergency is declared in Beijing, they still paid not regard for the measures, and started the rioting. The result was known to all now.

There used to be a huge protest in G-8 meeting, what about this year in Georgia? State Emergency declared, how many protestors showed up? Why?

Those student leaders in 1989 have lost their traction in China, they are considered scums and traitor. They are willing to sell the interest of Chinese people for personal gain. You can curse, you can whine. Most Chinese people understand the Government is working hard to improve the living of all Chinese.

I really don't see the point in an immediate reunification of China with Taiwan. What happens is this. The only reason China would go to war is for population control. The people don't have a choice about war, their rulers rule with an iron fist. War with China is war with a small group of people who stayed behind after the original leadership left to Taiwan. The people would go along for the ride. All the newspaper throughout China would say the same thing. It'll be one big mind control schemed to get the people rhiled up to reduce the population. Face it. Even if the economy of china equaled the US, they have about 2 billion people. We can devide our money and it like 50,000 a person, try the math on their economy and you begin to realize the production capital it would take for all of china or even a portion of China to live like the US is impossible given the amount of land and the resources the Earth has. That giant damn project is an accident waiting to happen. What, they have to relocate like 20 million people? Whoa dude, that's a lot of people. You may go like not compared to the number ..., stop the presses, it's still a lot of people. The ony way their system will work is with capitalism. There has to be some independent mindness their and not some unifying Taiwan theme that isn't the theme of the peopel, it's the theme of the minority ruling government and what that government tell the people to believe nothing more nothing less. Anything else, you're like stretching the truth.

The good thing is China is making many positive moves that actually suprised me headed towards increasing their economy and bettering the life of their people. The farmland is low but their embracing technology and figuring out better ways to produce power like solar panels on houses and well, using caves as houses is a work in progress if you happen to like the sun.

Cheers.

P.S. A war between China and the US. Ever watch War Games movie. The best move is not to play. There is no favorable outcome in the next war if one occurs, you would have to be joking if I even see one scanario after all the "new" weapons along with the old (biological, chemical, neuclear) have been release because security controls will be lost in the name of security. It would be no holds barred with no one left. Believe whatever book you've read all you want.

[edit on 14-7-2004 by pfunkarocka]

Originally posted by pfunkarocka
I really don't see the point in an immediate reunification of China with Taiwan. What happens is this. The only reason China would go to war is for population control.

Wrong. The tension in Taiwan strait now is the declared schedule of CSB to revise the ROC constitution to achieve de jure Independence in 2008. He may think since China is going to hold 2008 Olympics, he can get away with it.

If their is no threat of Taiwan Independence, China do not care to wait until people in Taiwan feel comfortable to unify with China.

China do not want to fight Taiwan, since the people in Taiwan are Chinese as well. But if they dare to go Independence, then all bets are off.

Okay. Taiwan, the people are Taiwanese, not Chinese. It's a simple name thing. Taiwan represents a very successful model (kinda like Hong Kong but give it a while before the mainland screws it up and scare away investors). It's a model that was created after the Maoist thing and he was for the peopel. Why can't Taiwan be a for the people thing. It's a wonderful country that I read about and saw in videos. The truth is, waking up every morning with a boot on top of your head that you can't remove and have gotten use to over time is may not be as refreshing as it sounds. Taiwan doesn't want to reunify out of rebelling, Taiwan doesn't want to because of the boot. I think sometimes it can get lodged in your butt and you can't feel it either. Maybe the boot stomps on the evening paper or kicks your tv set until only the programs the boot wants you to see are on. It kicks the crap out of everyone. Taiwan is just worried about the boot.

Why not sweeten the deal. How about offer Taiwan a solid boot type of government (different from the freedom their use to) which includes a clean pair of socks?

Originally posted by pfunkarocka
Okay. Taiwan, the people are Taiwanese, not Chinese.

It is like Hawaiian people are not American.

It's a simple name thing. Taiwan represents a very successful model (kinda like Hong Kong but give it a while before the mainland screws it up and scare away investors). It's a model that was created after the Maoist thing and he was for the peopel. Why can't Taiwan be a for the people thing. It's a wonderful country that I read about and saw in videos. The truth is, waking up every morning with a boot on top of your head that you can't remove and have gotten use to over time is may not be as refreshing as it sounds. Taiwan doesn't want to reunify out of rebelling, Taiwan doesn't want to because of the boot. I think sometimes it can get lodged in your butt and you can't feel it either. Maybe the boot stomps on the evening paper or kicks your tv set until only the programs the boot wants you to see are on. It kicks the crap out of everyone. Taiwan is just worried about the boot.

Why not sweeten the deal. How about offer Taiwan a solid boot type of government (different from the freedom their use to) which includes a clean pair of socks?

I do not understand what you are trying to say.

Originally posted by zcheng
Okay. Taiwan, the people are Taiwanese, not Chinese.
It is like Hawaiian people are not American.

No that is the difference. Amerca is made up of many groups of people. In diversity there is strength. Hawiian people are Amercians. America is not a race it is a concept based on freedom.... If your censors allow it, yiou should take a look at our constitution and Bill of Rights. You might learn something.