Hey China, why are you so worked up about an Independant Taiwan

The Chinese govt are just greedy thats all.

tiawan is going to act with big balls cause they know the us will come to their aid if they do declare soverginty. so basicall if china wants tiawan they have to get through the us first.

Originally posted by drunk
The Chinese govt are just greedy thats all.

Thats why all of this is just sabre rattling. The govenment of CHina is not stupid. They are alot of things but not that. This talk about the wounds of separation "our hearts ache" etc is just propaganda. The bottom line is that Taiwan is an ecomonic powerhouse in SE Asia Its GDP is 586 million. They only way to exploit this is to take Taiwan intact. We are watching a poker game. BLuff and counter bluff. China is starting to come on real strong which will (I think) backfire on them. They keep up thier threats, the population of Taiwan may vote for independance and the US will sell them progressivly more sophisticated defence systems.

FredT, when Taiwan declares independence, hope either you or your child will have the gut to defend Taiwan on the Taiwan Strait.

I will be very glad to meet you there.

Originally posted by zcheng
FredT, when Taiwan declares independence, hope either you or your child will have the gut to defend Taiwan on the Taiwan Strait.

I will be very glad to meet you there.

Once again with the empty threats. Too bad you can't do it any other way. Are you so blinded by your propagada that much like a good communist robot you really believe what you say? Judging by your human rights record, I can see why you are so willing to kill and recover Taiwan even if it is a smoking corpse. WOW won't you be proud of your acomplishment. I always thought that China' total disregard of human life of not only her people but others was simply a sterotype, but judging by your warmongering I am beginning to wonder if it is true.

It's not a case of China fighting for Taiwan or the US intervening.
The fact is that China has to adapt to be able to absorb Taiwan back into it's nation. Although Hong Kong is not an ideal example, the Chinese are showing that they do have the capability to run a fairly liberal, capitalist society. They're maybe not yet at the stage of being able to assuage Taiwanese fears - after all, Hong Kong has senn some setbacks in the democratic process - but they do seem to be slowly getting there.

I find comparisons of Taiwan to an American state to be very misleading. Taiwan was not set up in the way that a US state was and it's history means that it has veered considerably away from the politics, society and economy of the mainland. The population of Taiwan consider themselves to be separate from the mainland and their views should be respected.

China has to make itself more attractive to regain Taiwan. It will take time, but I do believe that this is a future possibility.

Originally posted by Leveller
China has to make itself more attractive to regain Taiwan. It will take time, but I do believe that this is a future possibility.

This is wht i mentioned in a prior thread. However, some of my Chinese friends seem to think that force is the way to go. Perhaps in many years as Communist China will go the way of the Soviet system and then reunification may be possible. Untill then all this posturing that the mainland is doing is really driving them away.....

"Perhaps in many years as Communist China will go the way of the Soviet system and then reunification may be possible."

If without the Soviet Union example, the Chinese people maybe more vulnerable to be misleaded by Western media. Now Russia is still trying to stay as a whole nation, and it was a former superpower. If China followed the same path of Soviet, Taiwan likely would celebrate its 10's Anniversary of independence. Of course it is in your daydreaming.

Originally posted by zcheng
FredT, when Taiwan declares independence, hope either you or your child will have the gut to defend Taiwan on the Taiwan Strait.

I will be very glad to meet you there.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boy, you will never "meet" us there. You would die to a faceless enemy firing a missle from miles away. Get a grip - China will do nothing! The US may not "officially" recognize Taiwan, but you best understand that the moment China begins to mobalize, the US will get carrier battle groups over there (as a matter of fact, i believe there are no less then 7 in the area right now). You have no chance of taking Taiwan if the US backs her up (which we will) so you'd be better off junping out of an airplane without a parachute - at least that way you'll get a thrill before you die.

"7 in the area right now"

It is so funny, you seems to know that China does not have any missile. Carrier is a great weapon for those does not have missile and nuke only.

Originally posted by zcheng
"7 in the area right now"

It is so funny, you seems to know that China does not have any missile. Carrier is a great weapon for those does not have missile and nuke only.

Sorry, but I am not quite sure what you are trying to say (don't worry, I won't hold it against you that your english is not that good)

Are you trying to say that China has conventional missles to defeat these carriers? Are you saying that China has nukes and will use them?

I will offer you this - these carriers have defense systems for conventional missles. If you speak of nukes, understand that the US has better nukes then you, and many more of them

As the sig says "don't pull the pin out, unless you care to bang"

(This is copied from my post in response to the 7 Carrier Groups...)

First of all, the whole issue about Taiwan's independence is illogical. The Republic of China (which is still Taiwan's official name) was founded in 1911 on the Mainland and its existance continues uninterrupted till today (same flag, same constitution, etc.). In 1945 it took back Taiwan from Japan after 51 years of occupation. Communists won the civil war in 1949 and the ROC government fled to Taiwan and fought off (with American help, of course), an invasion attempt. The Communist regime's name is officially People's Republic of China (PRC).

Because ROC came before PRC and PRC won the civil war, PRC should declare independence from ROC just as USA declared independence from the UK. Size doesn't matter; date of official establishment does.

Do people on Taiwan want to rejoin China? All want to live in a free society, and China is definitely not free. Most are too scared to say it out loud because of China's threat of military invasion. China had a chance to show the Taiwanese people that it can tolerate freedom when it promised "One Country, Two Systems" to Hong Kong, but it totally blew it. Watch HK people's periodic protests and you know they sure don't feel free. China has isolated Taiwan diplomatically -- Taiwan is not even represented in the WHO and WHO had to get China's permission so it could send a few experts to help Taiwan deal with SARS in 2003. How would you feel if you are Taiwanese? Do you sense "love" and "concern" from the Mainlanders?

GHuang, I can understand the feeling of Taiwanese, but can you also understand the feeling of 1.3 Billion Chinese?

Taiwan belongs to all Chinese.

Well, be nice to the Taiwanese and maybe they'll want to join China. Aiming 450+ missiles at them, isolating them, and threatening them is not the way to do it.

Is that how you treat your girlfriend? Does it work?

G.

"I will offer you this - these carriers have defense systems for conventional missles. If you speak of nukes, understand that the US has better nukes then you, and many more of them "

Fair enough, Taiwan is strategic interest of China, if needed, All options are open.

The fact is war between US and China, both will be destroyed, and I believe US will value more the whole World than Taiwan.

"Well, be nice to the Taiwanese and maybe they'll want to join China. Aiming 450+ missiles at them, isolating them, and threatening them is not the way to do it. "

Similarly, I would say Be nice to Chinese brother and sisters. Dreaming of independence is detrimental to all Taiwanese, if they do not want to call them Chinese.

Originally posted by zcheng
"Well, be nice to the Taiwanese and maybe they'll want to join China. Aiming 450+ missiles at them, isolating them, and threatening them is not the way to do it. "

Similarly, I would say Be nice to Chinese brother and sisters. Dreaming of independence is detrimental to all Taiwanese, if they do not want to call them Chinese.

When did the Taiwanese ever threatened the Chinese on the Mainland? Do they even have the military capabilities?

Sadly, more and more "Taiwanese" do not see themselves as Chinese for precisely the kind of attitude you displayed...

People want to live free. What part of that don't the Chinese understand?

Originally posted by zcheng
Similarly, I would say Be nice to Chinese brother and sisters. Dreaming of independence is detrimental to all Taiwanese, if they do not want to call them Chinese.

Here is where you are wrong (from a western point of view). Taiwan doesn't want to be part of China beause China is restrictiv, and they are *gasp* a WESTERN people (in spirit) living in the East. China is a bully, tryig to force a bunch of people to lie under there law. I don't care how long Taiwan was part of China. It isn't now, and untill THEY decide they WANT to be part of China, the US should protect them.

"When did the Taiwanese ever threatened the Chinese on the Mainland? Do they even have the military capabilities? "

Tell me why Lincoln start American Civil War? In the same way, China will tolerate Taiwan independence. Let alone, Taiwan will be the front arrow of US and Japan against China.

"Here is where you are wrong (from a western point of view). Taiwan doesn't want to be part of China beause China is restrictiv, and they are *gasp* a WESTERN people (in spirit) living in the East. China is a bully, tryig to force a bunch of people to lie under there law. I don't care how long Taiwan was part of China. It isn't now, and untill THEY decide they WANT to be part of China, the US should protect them. "

Remember the South wanted to be independent, what happened next?
Why the South could not be independent?