Hey China, why are you so worked up about an Independant Taiwan

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by zcheng
The one you referred is scum. The Whistleblowing was staged by the West media. I have no sympathy whatsoever for him.

The Doctor that let the west know that China was covering up SARS is scum? Maybe by your standards (I notice you have not commented on dead baby in the gutter pictures). However, why did your government that is soooooo respectful of the lives of its people, try to cover it up?

Dallas


Boston

Originally posted by chinalurker
China and Chinese people have plenty of reasons to be upset about Taiwan trying to become independent. That's what I feel after having discussed the issue at various locations with a large number of different people in China during my 6 years here.

As for "foreigners" (mainly westerners) who have never set foot in China, nor done research about the background and issues, nor talked with informed representatives from both sides of the situation, don't expect to understand how chinese people feel regarding this matter only through what you read in a few articles on the internet. It's not that simple.

You would need to take off quite a few layers of your sunglasses and prejudices + walk quite a few miles in chinese shoes to get a somewhat similar viewpoint, understanding and emotional connection to a matter like China-Taiwan, like the Chinese have.

Nothing wrong with trying to understand, but do show some respect and be modest with your claims and barking at others. How the "beep" are ya gonna understand the chinese peoples feelings and motives when you "beep" disregard of what they say and see everything from your own "beep" narrow/ uninformed point of view.

Taiwan is not Hawaii.

Deny Ignorance

BRAVO! This is wisdom!

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Justicer
Yes,these are very bad.But you should know China is a 3rd world country in the world.There are many problems awaiting being solved.Yes,there was someone who want to cover up SARS,but he had been dismissed.China does not have enough money as America.If America really want to help China,give China money.Anyone who want to foul others usually PRETENDED TO BE THE BENEFACTOR.

We do give you money every day. The trade imbalance was 102 Billion in your favor in 2002 and that is from the US alone!. Here is the deal you guys can sit back and take whatever it is your governemnt dishes out. Thats fine, but this incessent sabre rattling over Taiwan has got to stop. As previous posters have pointed out, your claim to the island is dubious at best. The Taiwanese become less and less Chinese every day much in the manner the US colonist became less and less British. Instead of making China attractive to the Taiwanese, you have allowed anger to prevail and drive the Taiwanese further and further away.

This is total nonsense. Please backup your statements with solid evidence.

Originally posted by Flyboy211
Isn't it fair to say China is semi-democratic? A kinda blend between democracy and communism/socialism. It's a hybrid system of government?

Oh yes, that's fair. China has openly adopted capitalism.

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
You are underestimating the Chinese government which in my opinion is very wise. China does not need the US while the US needs China. China can still sell goods to the rest of the world and it's local market while the rest of the world can boycot US products.

In theory maybe, however, China would not be able to sell most of the good it produces for the US everywhere. Other countries esp the EU which would be your next biggest oppurtunity would take a protectionist view of thier core industrial capacity and create barriers that even the rock bottom labor prices will not be able to overcome.

But this still does not get back to the core question of the Thread. Zcheng and his ilk are so quick to draw the sword, they never seem to offer any evidence as to why they are so upset about Taiwanese Independance?

You may have forgotten that Chinese are very good a business. China one day could kick all Americans out and take over all manufacturing facilities setup by America firms. After that they could just rebrand the products and keep exporting.

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
This is total nonsense. Please backup your statements with solid evidence.

THe Trade balance, are you kidding? Here you go:

www.fas.org...
www.fas.org...
www.mercurynews.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...
wwwc.house.gov...
usinfo.state.gov.../wf-latest.html
www.ipsnews.net...

Its not just with the US either:
www.dailyexcelsior.com...

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
You may have forgotten that Chinese are very good a business. China one day could kick all Americans out and take over all manufacturing facilities setup by America firms. After that they could just rebrand the products and keep exporting.

No I have not forgotten, but they also are able to manufacture good in an environment were wages are not debatable, Environmental policy is non existant, Slave labor is used. Good busines happens everywhere in that you are correct, but Chinas opressive government provides its businesses with a distinct advantage. Again as I pointed out, Chinas economy works because there is a market for thier goods. What would happen if someone came on the market and undercut Chinas advantge in low costs? Say an revitialized Africa? The middle kingdom would be in trouble indeed.

Originally posted by baked
Here is what comes to mind about your beloved China. I doubt you will see # like this in the west. Guess she just couldn't keep up with the rest of the kids in the shoe factory.

To the Chinese authorities, abandoned girls are merely worthless trash. �I called the emergency services, but nobody came,� says the woman who found this latest little victim. (For fear of official reprisal, she wishes to remain anonymous.) �The baby was lying right near the government tax office, so many people in government just walked past.� Eventually, an old man picked up the child, put her in a box, and dropped her in a garbage bin. When the police finally arrived, they showed no interest in investigating her death. They instead arrested the woman who�d tried to save her. �I took some photographs, because it was so terrible; the police were more worried about my pictures than the baby,� she says. The police only released the woman once she handed over her film.

www.taliacarner.com...

Whats your govt's propaganda book take on justifying this?

WisdomMaster: Your posts on the abandoned babies was pointed. However, in both cases, someone actually stopped to help. Please explain the sequence above? Howcome no one even checked to see i she was alive. Did the police do anything? No, when informed they were more intersted in the pictures thatn the dead girl.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Justicer

We do give you money every day. The trade imbalance was 102 Billion in your favor in 2002 and that is from the US alone!. Here is the deal you guys can sit back and take whatever it is your governemnt dishes out. Thats fine, but this incessent sabre rattling over Taiwan has got to stop. As previous posters have pointed out, your claim to the island is dubious at best. The Taiwanese become less and less Chinese every day much in the manner the US colonist became less and less British. Instead of making China attractive to the Taiwanese, you have allowed anger to prevail and drive the Taiwanese further and further away.

Give us money?That is trade,not help.Did America help China as it help S.K. and Japan?British moved to America 200 years ago,but Taiwan has been part of China thousands of years ago.There are still many people we can make use of to prevent its independence.You are like your government,very very false.Your gov.say help Iraq's democracy,but in fact for oil.You say you hate Chinese gov. because it is cruel,but in fact you want it to be divided into several country,like your politician,but your politician is more clear than you.

Pictures can be modified.We can also make a picture of a dead baby lying in America.I never saw this in China. How evil your gov and media are.You guys daemonize China with Photoshop.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Justicer]

Originally posted by Justicer
Pictures can be modified.We can also make a picture of a dead baby lying in America.I never saw this in China. How evil your gov and media are.You guys daemonize China with Photoshop.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Justicer]

Spare me. Sadly its the real deal: Here are a few more articles on the fate of female infants in China, as I said before, we don't need to deamonize you, you do fine on your own:

www.freerepublic.com...
www.freerepublic.com...
www.nd.edu...
www.iamapeacekeeper.com...
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Care to read some more? Funny Ill bet your daily propaganda I mean free press did not report on it eh?

Chinese law states that you can only have 1 child per family, so where do u think the extra kids go? on the street.

Originally posted by drunk
Chinese law states that you can only have 1 child per family, so where do u think the extra kids go? on the street.

Or worse, dead somewhere. The neighbor across the street now has 3 girls adopted from China. 3,6,8 all cute as a button. The 3y/o comes over and asks to see Machu (Matthew my son) all the time and the 6 year old asked me the other day why my son's eyes looked like hers (my wife is asian) they are all so cute, I cannot imagine as a parent how you could give up those 3 cute girls.

Precisely China 's population is growing and shows no signs of slowing down

China sold Taiwan out and relinquished it to Japan when it was defeated by
Japanease Navy in the Yellow Sea in late 19th century. Again the defeated KMT ravaged Taiwan when it was defeated by Communist in mainland China and retreated to Taiwan. Whose feeling are we talking about here?
Those who covers up for the criminal acts of China are apparently justifying the rights of the parents who deserted that baby girl. Shameful Chinese always think of getting something from Taiwan but not the other way. It's as shameful as parents who prostitute their daughter to whorehouse then try to claim parenthood in order to get more from her later after she made some money with her own flesh.

Originally posted by PlatoAthens
China sold Taiwan out and relinquished it to Japan when it was defeated by
Japanease Navy in the Yellow Sea in late 19th century. Again the defeated KMT ravaged Taiwan when it was defeated by Communist in mainland China and retreated to Taiwan. Whose feeling are we talking about here?
Those who covers up for the criminal acts of China are apparently justifying the rights of the parents who deserted that baby girl. Shameful Chinese always think of getting something from Taiwan but not the other way. It's as shameful as parents who prostitute their daughter to whorehouse then try to claim parenthood in order to get more from her later after she made some money with her own flesh.

How mush was Taiwan sold for Japan? During that period, China was very weak, all major Western powers excluding US had interest in China. China was facing the risk of dismemberment by those powers. Taiwan was ceded in war to Japan, Taiwan people resisted the occupation. In WW2, Japan was defeated and Taiwan rightfully returned to China.

China never abandoned Taiwan, it was cecession.

So, for all the people that critisize China.

China has 1.3 billion people.

Thats right, all EVIL COMMIE 1.3 billion people.

All put babies on street to die.

All want to kill Americans.

All use SARS as a WMD.

All want to bomb and destroy Taiwan cause of evil Communist indoctrination.

All don't want to have a better life, but rather continue to hate Americans, Taiwanese.

All condone and practice slave labour.

.....Blah blah blah...

-----

You know, You do realise that as you continue to hate Chinese, they are continuing to outmanuvre you diplomatically through Europe, Latin America, Africa and more.

A recent survey of the biggest cities of China showed that while 50%+ of the people dislike the American government, 50%+ of the people like American people and culture.

So.....
Cue black eye peas.....

WHERE IS THE LOVE.....
WHERE IS THE LOVE.....

Originally posted by PlatoAthens
China sold Taiwan out and relinquished it to Japan when it was defeated by
Japanease Navy in the Yellow Sea in late 19th century.

LOL, ok, Japan has a gun to my head. Japan says to me, i want to cut off your finger or i will kill you.

What do you do?

Your statement is a classic.

Again the defeated KMT ravaged Taiwan when it was defeated by Communist in mainland China and retreated to Taiwan. Whose feeling are we talking about here?
Those who covers up for the criminal acts of China are apparently justifying the rights of the parents who deserted that baby girl. Shameful Chinese always think of getting something from Taiwan but not the other way. It's as shameful as parents who prostitute their daughter to whorehouse then try to claim parenthood in order to get more from her later after she made some money with her own flesh.

LOL, this is even more funny.

So the Nationalists are evil...i c.....

I'm just a wacko from California lol. But my belief is that there's no need for hostility over differing viewpoints. They're just that: viewpoints. That's cliche I know, and maybe frowned upon these days. Nonetheless, there MUST be a way for all parties to save face, without anybody getting blown up.

I mean, really think about it. Most people (not all) seem to think there are only three possible outomes. Outcome # 1) Taiwan is peacefuly reuinified with mainland China. Outcome # 2) Taiwan declares independance, and there's a war. Outcome # 3) China invades Taiwan in order to prevent independance, and there's a war.

When you think about it, that means two thirds of the possibilities available in most people's minds will lead to war, while the only one that seems to allow for lasting peace is either deemed unlikely, or dissenfranchises atleast one group of people directly involved in the situation. Those three possibilities, atleast in a general sense, represent the totality of any official options being considered on all sides. The result is an impasse where the so called "status quo" is forever perpetuated, with a potential looming military conflict dependant on A) people's attitudes and B) people's degree of patience.

Isn't it possible that there are alternatives that nobody has considered? There must be some way to solve such an impasse without bloodshed, and in which everyone (including those in Taiwan who desire independance) can save face and have some say in what happens.

I may be a pansy because of this, but I have great faith in the universality of humanity's capacity to solve problems peacefuly when the correct spirit exists. The real question becomes one of whether or not that spirit exists.

I sure hope it does. I care about the wellbeing of the Chinese people as much as I do the Taiwanese and American ones. There's got to be a way to salvage everyone involved.

And before anyone says it, let me warn you: I don't believe in pragmatic "reality." Lol. I believe ANYTHING is possible where a will exists, and that where a will does not exist, one can be inspired or raised.

If not then...well...human beings suck and I'm wrong lol. (Likely the case, sadly because I'm almost always wrong it seems).

Just a quick question for Zcheng....

Do you see the U.S. pointing a battery of missles towards Guam or Puerto Rico because a majority of the people there do not want to become the 51st and 52nd state of the United States? Amazing, isn't it?