Video: Biggest Police State Scam Ever: "Civil Asset Forfeiture"

reply to post by Xcathdra



BTW, Im not speaking of a meeting of people hoarding food for armageddon.. I attended a meeting concerning emergency first responders and emergency personnel for which I am one. We learned all about our state and FEMA region's confiscations capabilities. We're in the New Madrid.. our last meeting was about confiscation in the event of a disaster. We would be cut off and we would have to keep our area not only controlled but fed/clothed/etc. There are things put into place in every region and every city of that region under that special governor of that region that is independent of another region and headed by FEMA. FEMA was created by executive order.. and all of their power is directly held by presidential order and eo's from as far back as the 1930's. ALL of the EOs are still in effect and have never been rescinded. Better start researching what you are claiming I am lying about first

Every hear of a cluster F in times of national emergency or disaster? You think Katrina was bad?? You just wait until we have a large scale disaster.. you arent going to believe it.

reply to post by Xcathdra


The source is me, I had a store accross the street and whitnessed it happen, but didnt know the entire story till she was released. It happened about 6 years ago in a county we have discussed before but I will try to look up the news story on it. I moved from there shortly afterwards because the entire county was corrupt with the DA, mayor and judges using the police force as a goon squad to harrass those that spoke out against it. The PTB there were all related and ran the place like a mafia enterprise. The county next to it was the same but at least in that case the state stepped in and cleaned it up.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I remeber that thread.. If you go back and check up on the latest info the reason the city never complied was because it was not their jurisdiction. The entire incident occured with a drug task force made up of several state and local agencies. The Aurora officer who stopped the van was a member of that task force. Since the incident occured in Aurora, they used their police station to interview the suspects, where they were provided with a recpet for the cash seizure.

Because of Federal involvement, the money was trasnfered to the competent jursidiction, whcih in that case was the DHS - Drug Enforcement Agency. The court order issued by the judge was invalid because Aurora PD never had the money in their possesion, and refered them to the FEderal Government.

Since then the judge retired, and a new judge has taken over the case, and continues to order Aurora to return money they do not have in their possession.

Source

reply to post by Advantage


Actually its not. Its from the Crime Control Act in the 1930's, and revamped under an omnibus crime bill that covered many areas.. Executive Orders are only affected by Federal Agencies, and are not offical Law. EO's have absolutely no force or effect on State Laws.

Scroll back up to see my first post which contains the US code and links to the info.

reply to post by crimvelvet


Yeah I read it the first time... I do Law Enforcement, ive seized property before, and I am telling you the info being talked about in this thread is not accurate in the least bit, other than Law Enforcement can seize property when its covered under US code or Stte law, depending on agency.

Originally posted by Advantage
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

BTW, Im not speaking of a meeting of people hoarding food for armageddon.. I attended a meeting concerning emergency first responders and emergency personnel for which I am one. We learned all about our state and FEMA region's confiscations capabilities. We're in the New Madrid.. our last meeting was about confiscation in the event of a disaster. We would be cut off and we would have to keep our area not only controlled but fed/clothed/etc. There are things put into place in every region and every city of that region under that special governor of that region that is independent of another region and headed by FEMA. FEMA was created by executive order.. and all of their power is directly held by presidential order and eo's from as far back as the 1930's. ALL of the EOs are still in effect and have never been rescinded. Better start researching what you are claiming I am lying about first

Every hear of a cluster F in times of national emergency or disaster? You think Katrina was bad?? You just wait until we have a large scale disaster.. you arent going to believe it.

I am familiar with the plans for that region, since my area is an evacuation point for injured and a jump off point for assistance going into the region. The seizure you are talking about is what I just described, which is taking food from sources (grocery stores etc).

As far as taking from individuals,I have never seen that in any of my breifing / disaster info. If you cn shoot me a pvt msg with reference I would liek to look it up.

reply to post by lastrebel


Fair enough but respectfully I would like more info so I can research it. Name of business, suspect, city it occured in, name of business etc.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Advantage

 

Actually its not. Its from the Crime Control Act in the 1930's, and revamped under an omnibus crime bill that covered many areas.. Executive Orders are only affected by Federal Agencies, and are not offical Law. EO's have absolutely no force or effect on State Laws.

Scroll back up to see my first post which contains the US code and links to the info.

Seriously, the state laws are trumped when these regions' autonomy go into effect. The local police dont even work for their cities anymore when this is activated. Hell, Ive been an emergency responder for 30 years... Im older and been involved in this as a person who gets a call in the night to activate.... for 10 years now. What you think is the truth is NOT the truth. If you people here wont listen to me.. you will have to wait until it happens to see what Im saying is correct. You WILL have your things confiscated and you WILL be relocated if the regional gov says you are going. Whatever is left of your assets will be used and/or confiscated.

I cant do much more than tell what I know to be the absolute fact and what Ive been trained to do.. and what I will choose to disregard when it happens. I fully plan on being the person who is sent to your house and see your stockpile for your family.. and becoming suddenly blind and dumb... maybe even lose my complete sense of direction and forget where I am. I can only do so much to let others know what will happen if you get flooded, earthquake, large scale disaster, attack, whatever.. what you THINK you know isnt what will happen and I hope that when others scoff who are in no way involved in this.. well I just hope they dont dissuade others from even considering that your "protectors" arent really out to protect your individuality or your property... and your rights that you think you have will evaporate when things are activated in the event that we have a disaster or whatever else the prez decides to activate this crap for.

Now here is another example where I have a strong suspicion that this very loophole was used and abused to extort the local populace...At least in this case this group was shut down though.

More than 100 file extortion claims against Metro Gang Strike Force

Zelaido Rivera Garcia, who sued on behalf of the class, claimed he went to the Minneapolis impound lot in 2008 to pick up his car and encountered Metro Gang Strike Force officers. Officers took his wallet and, when they returned it, $100 was missing.

That $100, and the ordeals of others whose money was seized by strike force officers, mushroomed to a $3 million settlement of a federal lawsuit announced in August.

The lawsuit claimed that strike force members "engaged in a pattern and practice of using their apparent authority as police officers to extort cash and property ... particularly from those concerned about their immigration status who would naturally perceive that they had no ability to assert legal rights."

www.twincities.com...

reply to post by Advantage

....Every hear of a cluster F in times of national emergency or disaster? You think Katrina was bad?? You just wait until we have a large scale disaster.. you arent going to believe it.

Thank you for listing the EOs there are so many laws and regulations in this country it is impossible for any one person to keep up with them. That is why law practices have to specialize and if you are smart you will head for the law library and do you own research too if you have to head to court.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Advantage
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

BTW, Im not speaking of a meeting of people hoarding food for armageddon.. I attended a meeting concerning emergency first responders and emergency personnel for which I am one. We learned all about our state and FEMA region's confiscations capabilities. We're in the New Madrid.. our last meeting was about confiscation in the event of a disaster. We would be cut off and we would have to keep our area not only controlled but fed/clothed/etc. There are things put into place in every region and every city of that region under that special governor of that region that is independent of another region and headed by FEMA. FEMA was created by executive order.. and all of their power is directly held by presidential order and eo's from as far back as the 1930's. ALL of the EOs are still in effect and have never been rescinded. Better start researching what you are claiming I am lying about first

Every hear of a cluster F in times of national emergency or disaster? You think Katrina was bad?? You just wait until we have a large scale disaster.. you arent going to believe it.

I am familiar with the plans for that region, since my area is an evacuation point for injured and a jump off point for assistance going into the region. The seizure you are talking about is what I just described, which is taking food from sources (grocery stores etc).

As far as taking from individuals,I have never seen that in any of my breifing / disaster info. If you cn shoot me a pvt msg with reference I would liek to look it up.

Since your folks dont seem to be giving you long term strategic planning in your briefings. Next time, raise your hand and ask.. err., since youre speaking of bridges being cut off and the data that confirms that the confiscation from food pantries, grocery stores, shipping and distributing warehouses can only go so far.. what next?
Phase 2 of regional viability is confiscation as it is exactly lined out in the executive orders. Its enacted in a matter of hours in certain parts of the regions ( mine) .. its pretty extensive in the FEMA crap at the briefings you SHOULD have gotten if you are a responder. We get military assistance immediately as well. We have several sensitive military installations and etc.

We got a taste on 9/11... sort of a dry run.. my hubby is DoD.. he got locked in his building and it all went full on there on the base. I was called, got the neighbor who we already had agreements with for the kids and ranout the door to our staging area at city hall. Yay.. we all got praised for our response time like a bunch of zombies. Our area has a nice thing called "occupancy permits" which defines every person at a residence and what their relationship to each other is.. rentals and owned. We also have FOID which tells us what guns are registered to you... long guns, hand guns, ammo is also reported. By the time Im in your neighborhood.. I know everything about you, your home, what you have, who is who.. and what I/we/they can get from you. We have farm data here.. every piece of equipment and livestock you have. Business permits? Lots of data on that too.

The average Joe freedom minded person here has NO idea.. absolutely NO idea.... what a "disaster" just may entail. Im of the opinion that FEMA was purposely moronic concerning Katrina.. it was bungled in public for a reason. WIth what we have in place.. nothing like that could ever possibly happen. People wouldnt have the chance to get unruly.

reply to post by Advantage


My response was in reference ot your list of Executive Orders. Not sure where the rest of your post comes in to be honest. I understand what you are saying as I am in the same line of work. I have never seen any offical doumentation that uthorizes the collection of food from private individuals in the manner being described. And to be honest with you, I would not carry that order out because in the end, someone involved in that scenario will be dead.

The plans in place for the New Madrid area is pretty in depth and complex, and seems to cover most bases, from response to evacuations and how it occurs. I agree that if the New Madrid fault goes off, it will make the last earthquake that occured there look like a small tremor. Even more so now since we are finding new parts of the fault that runs into areas we previsouly did not know about.

I beleive that you were told this would occur, but I question the manner in which it was relayed to the people in that class, and I woul challenge the speaker who relayed it and ask him to point out where it comes from.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Advantage

 

My response was in reference ot your list of Executive Orders. Not sure where the rest of your post comes in to be honest. I understand what you are saying as I am in the same line of work. I have never seen any offical doumentation that uthorizes the collection of food from private individuals in the manner being described. And to be honest with you, I would not carry that order out because in the end, someone involved in that scenario will be dead.

The plans in place for the New Madrid area is pretty in depth and complex, and seems to cover most bases, from response to evacuations and how it occurs. I agree that if the New Madrid fault goes off, it will make the last earthquake that occured there look like a small tremor. Even more so now since we are finding new parts of the fault that runs into areas we previsouly did not know about.

I beleive that you were told this would occur, but I question the manner in which it was relayed to the people in that class, and I woul challenge the speaker who relayed it and ask him to point out where it comes from.

I emailed the guy who heads my little "unit" and hopefully he will email me and I can PM you. Im ONLY medical.. and the funny thing is that as you can imagine, medical will be in dire need in such a disaster. IF we are talking about a natural disaster anyway Maybe ask yourself why medical personnel is being trained in certain areas.. that include door to door checks and confiscation protocol. Especially when we are slotted for military "assistance" and etc. It was suggested that we are the fail safe if activation takes on some other function. In this area.. even with our data on every citizen.. we have appx 150 people to every law enforcement officer. We have contingency plans.. plans that arent taking into account that a normal citizen can and would hold in place at their home peacefully with their little stockpile if left alone and not become a "threat to operations".

Oh and I meant to add.. we dont have "classes" as you suggested.. we have briefings with the mayor, chief of police, and a FEMA rep. Usually yearly.. this last year we were briefed on the confiscation stuff.. which fit in with the OP.. everything is completely in place to confiscate whatever is necessary to keep a region or area in that region viable and under control. Basically anyone can go to a class to be a "first responder".. not everyone who thinks they are a first responder actually is. The issue is that this stuff has been in effect waiting on a shelf for a very very long time. Its pulled out every once in a while like cases in which the OP is speaking.. and no one really raises a stink. So more power is grabbed by the govt and more EOs magically appear or are revised. Laws and EOs are working hand in hand now.. something that hasnt happened before.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


I have mixed feelings on this one. The suit is not criminal but civil, which has different standards of rules for evidence an everything else. That said, it looks like in addition to the people who complained, the State Auditor found issues as well with it.

Based on the info in the article, the task force should be disbanded and the cops involved should have their asses handed to them prior to sentencing. Since its civil though, its going to cost money and thats it, sadly.

This article, as well as the one on the first page, and to explain my viewpoint, is we seem to snag an article that paints the law enforcement involved in it as corrupt. We then run with that and apply it to any type of agency that has any type of arrest authority. I see people argue that innocent untill proven guilty, the cops are wrong for sterotyping etc etc etc.

All I ask is for the same common courtesy and the acknowledgement that not all cops are corrupt. The paranoia game goes a bit far at times with no clear rationale or support. A side effect of that is when the correct information is presented, its ignored.

If a cop, or any person for that matter breaks the law, by all means, lets nail their ass to the wall. We are not above the law in any way shape or form, and because of the nature of our job we should be held to a higher standard within reason (and what I mean within reason is we cannot walk across water, so tone down the expectations some).

Is it easy for a cop to be corrupt? Absolutely. The onlything that seperates a cop from a criminal is action. We think the same way they do, we (exceptions aside) just dont carry the thought out. Im not justifing or making an argument to protect officers who break the law. What I am saying is they also have a right to presumption of innocence and to be tried in a court of law and not a court of public opinion.

There are 3 sides to every story - Your side, my side and the right side.

reply to post by Xcathdra

I read the entire 31 page treatise, Civil Asset Forfeiture: Why Law Enforcement Has Changed its Motto from "To Serve and Protect" to "Show Me the Money," but it is no longer available online.
I gave the link to FEAR because they have everything all there and handy to reference. If you want the actual laws you can go to the left hand side and click on the Law Library. The law library lists the laws. click on the law listed and it take you to the actual written law.

As far as I am concerned why the heck should I waste my time researching every single law when it is all available and nicely packaged at one site?

Does law enforcement use this all the time? Of course not but the Laws ARE there. And as you well know practically all older cash has traces of drugs on it and therefore:

"..property, real or personal, within the jurisdiction of the United States, constituting, derived from, or traceable to, any proceeds obtained directly or indirectly..." applies.

This is the listing for Federal Statutes, I am not going to link all these you can go to the FEAR site. The second copy and paste is part of the first law and contains the above quote.

Procedures applicable to forfeiture cases in general:

* 18 U.S.C. § 981, Civil forfeiture procedure
* 18 U.S.C. § 982, Criminal forfeiture - This catch-all provision incorporates numerous federal crimes by reference; other forfeiture statutes are scattered throughout US Code. (See FEAR website law library's Federal Forfeiture Offenses A-G or H-Z for a comprehensive subject matter index to forfeitable offenses under federal law.) Subsection 982(b)(1) incorporates by reference the criminal forfeiture procedures of 21 U.S.C. § 853 other than § 853(d) into all criminal forfeiture cases.
* 18 U.S.C. § 984, Civil forfeiture of fungible property
* 18 U.S.C. § 985, Civil forfeiture of real property
* 18 U.S.C. § 986, Subpoenas for bank records
* 28 U.S.C. § 1355, Jurisdiction of the U.S. District Courts for Recovery of Fine, Penalty or Forfeiture
* 28 U.S.C. § 1395, Venue of the U.S. District Courts for Recovery of Fine, Penalty or Forfeiture
* 28 U.S.C. § 1964, Federal lis pendens statute
* 28 U.S.C. § 2001, Sale of real estate
* 28 U.S.C. § 2002, Notice of sale of real estate
* 28 U.S.C. § 2004, Sale of personal property
* 18 U.S.C. § 2232, Criminal penalties for removal of property to prevent seizure & forfeiture
* 18 U.S.C. § 2233, Criminal penalties for rescuing property seized by the government
* 28 U.S.C. § 2461, Applicability of admiralty procedures to civil forfeitures
* 28 U.S.C. § 2464, Special bond for release of property
* 28 U.S.C. § 2465, Successful claimant is entitled to attorneys fees, post-judgment interest, and pre-judgment interest on seized money.
* 28 U.S.C. § 2466, Fugitive disentitlement prevents fugitive from justice in criminal proceeding from defending forfeiture case
* 28 U.S.C. § 2467, Enforcement of foreign forfeiture judgment
* 28 U.S.C. § 2680, Federal Tort Claims Act permits damages for injuries to property while seized if claimant prevails in forfeiture case
* 18 U.S.C. § 3051, Special powers of ATF agents
* 18 U.S.C. § 3322, Information obtained by grand jury may be disclosed to forfeiture prosecutor and used in civil forfeiture proceeding
* 18 U.S.C. § 3554, Order of criminal forfeiture after RICO (18 U.S.C. § 1962) and drug (21 U.S.C. § 853) convictions

Procedures applicable to criminal forfeiture cases in general:

* 18 U.S.C. § 982, Criminal forfeiture - This catch-all provision incorporates numerous federal crimes by reference; other forfeiture statutes are scattered throughout US Code. (See FEAR website law library's Federal Forfeiture Offenses A-G or H-Z for a comprehensive subject matter index to forfeitable offenses under federal law.) Subsection 982(b)(1) incorporates by reference the criminal forfeiture procedures of 21 U.S.C. § 853 other than § 853(d) into all criminal forfeiture cases
* 21 U.S.C. § 853- Criminal forfeiture procedure governing all criminal forfeitures for violation of federal drug laws (all offenses codified in title 21 U.S.Code). This provision is also incorporated by reference into all other federal criminal forfeiture statutes through 18 U.S.C. § 982(b)(1)).
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 1 - Definitions; criminal rules inapplicable to civil forfeiture proceedings [Rule 1(A)(5)(b)].
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 11 - Guilty pleas
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 32.2 - Criminal forfeiture rules
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 41(g) - Motion for return of property; this is also a remedy generally for people whose property is seized by federal agents but no forfeiture case is filed.

Procedures applicable to civil forfeiture cases in general:

* 18 U.S.C. § 981, Civil forfeiture procedure
* 18 U.S.C. § 984, Civil forfeiture of fungible property
* 18 U.S.C. § 985, Civil forfeiture of real property
* Supplemental Rule (for Admiralty) Rule C(2), In rem forfeiture actions - special requirement that complaint be verified and that it describe property with reasonable particularity
* Supplemental Rule (for Admiralty) Rule E(2)(a), In rem actions - special requirement that complaint state circumstances with particularity
* Supplemental Rule (for Admiralty) Rule G, Forfeiture actions in rem - rules applicable to civil forfeiture under federal statutes

Civil forfeiture procedures applicable only to CAFRA cases: (For difference between "CAFRA cases" and "customs carve-out cases" see 18 U.S.C. § 983(i).)

* 18 U.S.C. § 983, General rules for civil forfeiture proceedings


Civil forfeiture procedures applicable to customs carve out cases (these statutes still apply to CAFRA cases unless inconsistent with the provisions of § 983)

* 19 U.S.C. § 1602, Customs procedure - seizure, report to customs officer
* 19 U.S.C. § 1603, Customs procedure - seizure; warrants and reports
* 19 U.S.C. § 1604, Customs procedure - seizure; prosecution
* 19 U.S.C. § 1605, Customs procedure - seizure, custody, storage
* 19 U.S.C. § 1606, Customs procedure - seizure; appraisement
* 19 U.S.C. § 1607, Seizure, value $500,000 or less
* 19 U.S.C. § 1608, Seizure; claims; judicial condemnation
* 19 U.S.C. § 1609, Seizure, summary forfeiture and sale
* 19 U.S.C. § 1610, Seizure; judicial forfeiture proceedings
* 19 U.S.C. § 1611, Seizure; sale unlawful
* 19 U.S.C. § 1612, Seizure; summary sale
* 19 U.S.C. § 1614, Release of seized property
* 19 U.S.C. § 1615, Burden of proof in customs carve-out cases
* 19 U.S.C. § 1616a, Transfer of property for state law forfeiture
* 19 U.S.C. § 1617, Compromise of claims
* 19 U.S.C. § 1618, Remission and mitigation
* 19 U.S.C. § 1621, Statute of limitations

Here is just part of the first USC

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 46 > § 981
Prev | Next
§ 981. Civil forfeiture
How Current is This?
(a)
(1) The following property is subject to forfeiture to the United States:
(A) Any property, real or personal, involved in a transaction or attempted transaction in violation of section 1956, 1957 or 1960 of this title, or any property traceable to such property.
(B) Any property, real or personal, within the jurisdiction of the United States, constituting, derived from, or traceable to, any proceeds obtained directly or indirectly from an offense against a foreign nation, or any property used to facilitate such an offense, if the offense—
(i) involves trafficking in nuclear, chemical, biological, or radiological weapons technology or material, or the manufacture, importation, sale, or distribution of a controlled substance (as that term is defined for purposes of the Controlled Substances Act), or any other conduct described in section 1956 (c)(7)(B);
(ii) would be punishable within the jurisdiction of the foreign nation by death or imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year; and
(iii) would be punishable under the laws of the United States by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year, if the act or activity constituting the offense had occurred within the jurisdiction of the United States.
(C) Any property, real or personal, which constitutes or is derived from proceeds traceable to a violation of section 215, 471, 472, 473, 474, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 485, 486, 487, 488, 501, 502, 510, 542, 545, 656, 657, 842, 844, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1014, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1032, or 1344 of this title or any offense constituting “specified unlawful activity” (as defined in section 1956 (c)(7) of this title), or a conspiracy to commit such offense.
(D) Any property, real or personal, which represents or is traceable to the gross receipts obtained, directly or indirectly, from a violation of—
(i) section 666 (a)(1) (relating to Federal program fraud);
(ii) section 1001 (relating to fraud and false statements);
(iii) section 1031 (relating to major fraud against the United States);
(iv) section 1032 (relating to concealment of assets from conservator or receiver of insured financial institution);
(v) section 1341 (relating to mail fraud); or
(vi) section 1343 (relating to wire fraud),...

www.law.cornell.edu...

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I read the entire 31 page treatise, Civil Asset Forfeiture: Why Law Enforcement Has Changed its Motto from "To Serve and Protect" to "Show Me the Money," but it is no longer available online.
I gave the link to FEAR because they have everything all there and handy to reference. If you want the actual laws you can go to the left hand side and click on the Law Library. The law library lists the laws. click on the law listed and it take you to the actual written law.

As far as I am concerned why the heck should I waste my time researching every single law when it is all available and nicely packaged at one site?

Does law enforcement use this all the time? Of course not but the Laws ARE there. And as you well know practically all older cash has traces of drugs on it and therefore:

"..property, real or personal, within the jurisdiction of the United States, constituting, derived from, or traceable to, any proceeds obtained directly or indirectly..." applies.

This is the listing for Federal Statutes, I am not going to link all these you can go to the FEAR site. The second copy and paste is part of the first law and contains the above quote.

Procedures applicable to forfeiture cases in general:

* 18 U.S.C. § 981, Civil forfeiture procedure
* 18 U.S.C. § 982, Criminal forfeiture - This catch-all provision incorporates numerous federal crimes by reference; other forfeiture statutes are scattered throughout US Code. (See FEAR website law library's Federal Forfeiture Offenses A-G or H-Z for a comprehensive subject matter index to forfeitable offenses under federal law.) Subsection 982(b)(1) incorporates by reference the criminal forfeiture procedures of 21 U.S.C. § 853 other than § 853(d) into all criminal forfeiture cases.
* 18 U.S.C. § 984, Civil forfeiture of fungible property
* 18 U.S.C. § 985, Civil forfeiture of real property
* 18 U.S.C. § 986, Subpoenas for bank records
* 28 U.S.C. § 1355, Jurisdiction of the U.S. District Courts for Recovery of Fine, Penalty or Forfeiture
* 28 U.S.C. § 1395, Venue of the U.S. District Courts for Recovery of Fine, Penalty or Forfeiture
* 28 U.S.C. § 1964, Federal lis pendens statute
* 28 U.S.C. § 2001, Sale of real estate
* 28 U.S.C. § 2002, Notice of sale of real estate
* 28 U.S.C. § 2004, Sale of personal property
* 18 U.S.C. § 2232, Criminal penalties for removal of property to prevent seizure & forfeiture
* 18 U.S.C. § 2233, Criminal penalties for rescuing property seized by the government
* 28 U.S.C. § 2461, Applicability of admiralty procedures to civil forfeitures
* 28 U.S.C. § 2464, Special bond for release of property
* 28 U.S.C. § 2465, Successful claimant is entitled to attorneys fees, post-judgment interest, and pre-judgment interest on seized money.
* 28 U.S.C. § 2466, Fugitive disentitlement prevents fugitive from justice in criminal proceeding from defending forfeiture case
* 28 U.S.C. § 2467, Enforcement of foreign forfeiture judgment
* 28 U.S.C. § 2680, Federal Tort Claims Act permits damages for injuries to property while seized if claimant prevails in forfeiture case
* 18 U.S.C. § 3051, Special powers of ATF agents
* 18 U.S.C. § 3322, Information obtained by grand jury may be disclosed to forfeiture prosecutor and used in civil forfeiture proceeding
* 18 U.S.C. § 3554, Order of criminal forfeiture after RICO (18 U.S.C. § 1962) and drug (21 U.S.C. § 853) convictions

Procedures applicable to criminal forfeiture cases in general:

* 18 U.S.C. § 982, Criminal forfeiture - This catch-all provision incorporates numerous federal crimes by reference; other forfeiture statutes are scattered throughout US Code. (See FEAR website law library's Federal Forfeiture Offenses A-G or H-Z for a comprehensive subject matter index to forfeitable offenses under federal law.) Subsection 982(b)(1) incorporates by reference the criminal forfeiture procedures of 21 U.S.C. § 853 other than § 853(d) into all criminal forfeiture cases
* 21 U.S.C. § 853- Criminal forfeiture procedure governing all criminal forfeitures for violation of federal drug laws (all offenses codified in title 21 U.S.Code). This provision is also incorporated by reference into all other federal criminal forfeiture statutes through 18 U.S.C. § 982(b)(1)).
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 1 - Definitions; criminal rules inapplicable to civil forfeiture proceedings [Rule 1(A)(5)(b)].
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 11 - Guilty pleas
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 32.2 - Criminal forfeiture rules
* Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 41(g) - Motion for return of property; this is also a remedy generally for people whose property is seized by federal agents but no forfeiture case is filed.

Procedures applicable to civil forfeiture cases in general:

* 18 U.S.C. § 981, Civil forfeiture procedure
* 18 U.S.C. § 984, Civil forfeiture of fungible property
* 18 U.S.C. § 985, Civil forfeiture of real property
* Supplemental Rule (for Admiralty) Rule C(2), In rem forfeiture actions - special requirement that complaint be verified and that it describe property with reasonable particularity
* Supplemental Rule (for Admiralty) Rule E(2)(a), In rem actions - special requirement that complaint state circumstances with particularity
* Supplemental Rule (for Admiralty) Rule G, Forfeiture actions in rem - rules applicable to civil forfeiture under federal statutes

Civil forfeiture procedures applicable only to CAFRA cases: (For difference between "CAFRA cases" and "customs carve-out cases" see 18 U.S.C. § 983(i).)

* 18 U.S.C. § 983, General rules for civil forfeiture proceedings


Civil forfeiture procedures applicable to customs carve out cases (these statutes still apply to CAFRA cases unless inconsistent with the provisions of § 983)

* 19 U.S.C. § 1602, Customs procedure - seizure, report to customs officer
* 19 U.S.C. § 1603, Customs procedure - seizure; warrants and reports
* 19 U.S.C. § 1604, Customs procedure - seizure; prosecution
* 19 U.S.C. § 1605, Customs procedure - seizure, custody, storage
* 19 U.S.C. § 1606, Customs procedure - seizure; appraisement
* 19 U.S.C. § 1607, Seizure, value $500,000 or less
* 19 U.S.C. § 1608, Seizure; claims; judicial condemnation
* 19 U.S.C. § 1609, Seizure, summary forfeiture and sale
* 19 U.S.C. § 1610, Seizure; judicial forfeiture proceedings
* 19 U.S.C. § 1611, Seizure; sale unlawful
* 19 U.S.C. § 1612, Seizure; summary sale
* 19 U.S.C. § 1614, Release of seized property
* 19 U.S.C. § 1615, Burden of proof in customs carve-out cases
* 19 U.S.C. § 1616a, Transfer of property for state law forfeiture
* 19 U.S.C. § 1617, Compromise of claims
* 19 U.S.C. § 1618, Remission and mitigation
* 19 U.S.C. § 1621, Statute of limitations

Here is just part of the first USC

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 46 > § 981
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§ 981. Civil forfeiture
How Current is This?
(a)
(1) The following property is subject to forfeiture to the United States:
(A) Any property, real or personal, involved in a transaction or attempted transaction in violation of section 1956, 1957 or 1960 of this title, or any property traceable to such property.
(B) Any property, real or personal, within the jurisdiction of the United States, constituting, derived from, or traceable to, any proceeds obtained directly or indirectly from an offense against a foreign nation, or any property used to facilitate such an offense, if the offense—
(i) involves trafficking in nuclear, chemical, biological, or radiological weapons technology or material, or the manufacture, importation, sale, or distribution of a controlled substance (as that term is defined for purposes of the Controlled Substances Act), or any other conduct described in section 1956 (c)(7)(B);
(ii) would be punishable within the jurisdiction of the foreign nation by death or imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year; and
(iii) would be punishable under the laws of the United States by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year, if the act or activity constituting the offense had occurred within the jurisdiction of the United States.
(C) Any property, real or personal, which constitutes or is derived from proceeds traceable to a violation of section 215, 471, 472, 473, 474, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 485, 486, 487, 488, 501, 502, 510, 542, 545, 656, 657, 842, 844, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1014, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1032, or 1344 of this title or any offense constituting “specified unlawful activity” (as defined in section 1956 (c)(7) of this title), or a conspiracy to commit such offense.
(D) Any property, real or personal, which represents or is traceable to the gross receipts obtained, directly or indirectly, from a violation of—
(i) section 666 (a)(1) (relating to Federal program fraud);
(ii) section 1001 (relating to fraud and false statements);
(iii) section 1031 (relating to major fraud against the United States);
(iv) section 1032 (relating to concealment of assets from conservator or receiver of insured financial institution);
(v) section 1341 (relating to mail fraud); or
(vi) section 1343 (relating to wire fraud),...

www.law.cornell.edu...

These right here.. compare these laws with EOs.. they are aligned together. AT no point in our history have our laws been a mirror of EOs.. they are now. With these new proposals on what is and is not offensive to the federal govt.. you and I.. we all need to realize that this is a huge and done deal power grab. WHo is to say what is deemed illegal anymore when all of these weird laws are enacted. Who will determine this are those who are in power. You may be doing something they dont like and it can fall under one of these laws.. and you lose what you have.

WHo needs martial law when we can make laws that mirror EOs and enforce them on a state level? No one seems to be protesting it too much

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Advantage

 

....Every hear of a cluster F in times of national emergency or disaster? You think Katrina was bad?? You just wait until we have a large scale disaster.. you arent going to believe it.

Thank you for listing the EOs there are so many laws and regulations in this country it is impossible for any one person to keep up with them. That is why law practices have to specialize and if you are smart you will head for the law library and do you own research too if you have to head to court.

What is an Executive Order -

An executive order in the United States is an order issued by the President, the head of the executive branch of the federal government. Executive Orders are generally orders to staff of the executive branch....

What group is not covered by an Executive order -

......and not to the citizens of the country.

The President can issue all of the executive orders he wants, but they are not binding for my profession. Any attempt to do so is a violation of Article I section I of the Constitution.

reply to post by Advantage


My involvement is Law Enforcement for those setups. I am not going to go into detail for obvious reason, but the confiscation of personal food storage was nowhere in any of my briefings or the information I have access to, including the disaster plans.

Also we saw how well it worked out for New Orleans Police when they decided to confiscate personal firearms from people. They, rightfully so, had their asses handed to them by FEderal Courts, which said it was illegal to do that even though a state of emergency existed.

reply to post by Advantage


I have had a few conversations with people who work for the Hospitals and we have talked about Mass Disaster and the Feds. I always found their arguments funny since they think their facility will be under their control. Ive tried to point out to them that their own disaster plans, the ones they have signed off on, move authority to a centralized location who can move staffing around as needed based on whats going on without their permission.

Its along the same manner for the LEO agencies and how that works as well.. We at least understand all of that, where I think the Hospitals will get a nice shock.

reply to post by crimvelvet


Because the Laws you are citing pertain only to FEderal Law Enforcement Seizures and not State or Local. We have our own laws, and since we are not Federal, and do not enforce Federal Law they dont affect me, or the manner in which we perform seziures of civil property or from criminal activity that qualifies.

Executive Orders are NOT law, as only Congress can make and pass Laws (Article I section I). The authority for the FEderal Government to seize property comes from Title 18 of the US Code.

Specifically 18 USC 981- Forfeiture

I am not going to copy and paste the entire Federal section since its extensive. I would suggest you look there, which is LAW and not an EO and specifically spells out what can be seized, in what manner, how its handled and the rights individuals have in order to contest seizures and the process involved.

Again Executive Orders are procedures, and are only valid when issued if:
* The EO falls within the authority granted to the Executive by the Constitution.
* Is based on a law that Congress has passed, and ONLY if it does not conflict with the law itself.

In this case, seizure laws are spelled out by US Code.