A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)

Originally posted by masqua
And how would you propose that this website winnow out the mentally unstable? Staff psychologists or just leave it up to the membership to find and report them?

Does this apply to political stances? Social issues? Phobia? Trolling?

Where, exactly, are the lines to be drawn?

I would suggest one approach might be to take a the hypothetical stance that right now, there is someone like Jared using the site. Should anything change?

Does ATS have a social responsibility to be aware of this possibility?

I'm sure it does (and I don't think comparing the site to facebook works), but I would think it is inherently limited in how it can respond (suppose it's a bit like a pub/bar and alcoholics). Perhaps one area of concern is the medical subforum? Say this hypothetical Jared MKII is asking advice over his meds and gets the oft-given response around the theme of 'big pharma' conspiracy, and is then no longer medically compliant?

I think users who have a fair possession of marbles are quite able to make a rational decision (e.g., whether to vote for x or y or not at all; to think 9-11 was false-flag). Does that apply for all?

Only throwing out questions here from an experience of ethical committees, researcher responsibility, and consent etc. For instance, there is concern about some (pro)anorexia forums and their impact on the health of their users.

Originally posted by The_Zomar

Originally posted by Ben81
for all the MODS:
Any futur violent and troubled posts or threads ..the members should be classed apart by the mods watching them more closely
and if it goes worst .. ATS can contact the autorities and let them know of a potential violent individu
its the best thing to do

I disagree. I often make hateful remarks at the US. Military (because they are murdering criminals) here on ATS but I would never hurt anybody. Thats the reason I hate the US. Military; because they are terribly violent and love to murder innocents. Point aside; nobody should be classed apart from others. ATS is not the police nor are they detectives, so why don't we leave the police work to the police, yeah?

ya me to .. i make remarks concerning this unsustainable system we live in today
but
burning the US flag .. means somethings ... very radical and violent

it is more easy then before to make a futur criminal profile
each violent words or gesture must be taken seriously at all cost
saying i dont like the US politic doesnt mean i will go violent .. but i think if someone watched this guy more closely .. this massacre would not had happened.. look all what he posted .. no ones alarm sounded ?

Of course ATS should not be seen as a harborer of a murderer.
It's quite obvious to see how flawed and deranged his thoughts are when reading his posts and threads.
It's great to see the ATS community counter his arguments with tangible and sane comments because this shows we can see clearly when someone's thoughts are just too radical and nonsensical and begs the question of mental health, age (very young), or possible hoax. With Jared Loughner however, it was no hoax, he really did think the way he did and it's a shame he did what he did.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

What better way to take down ATS then to setup a fictional persona, have a cia patsy do some high profile killing, then the media takes it for a spin and blames the conspiracy sites, which leads to a)internet ids b)site censoring c)anti-gun laws d)dead MODERATE federal representatives&judges..because ONLY the moderate get killed.

I get what you're saying, but the only one I have seen take the largest chunk of the blame for this tragedy is Sarah Palin and a bunch of other conservatives who have used questionable rhetoric in the past, not ATS.

Condolences to all who were affected by his actions.. Violence is never the answer - it only adds to the misery in the world.. Have to wonder though after reading his posts why nobody around him in the real world noticed that he was disturbed and in need of help ? Quite obvious reading his posts that he was disturbed and in need of help..

Until you have the media calling you, it's all fun and games. Being in this position is something I have endured. You will come through this. There is no conspiracy here. This is the free exchange of ideas. Your lawyer would advise you to say nothing. I would concur. Just because a obviously disturbed individual deposited some meaningless drivel on the site. Well, anyone can do that...

He look like a real killer .. no doubt on that
you can see the proud evilness in his eyes

Mugshot of Jared
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/22aba56060ea.jpg[/atsimg]

Edit ... damn i cant stand looking at his face ...
try looking at him more then 2 seconds .. VERY HARD

reply to post by masqua


I don't think ats will legally get into any trouble or be blamed for the madness in AZ. As far as shrinks and what have you moderating the forums, lets get real.

taking an inch and trying to stretch it into a mile.

Its not the legal status ATS owners ceo's or what have should be concerned about, its the reputation it may get, when or if msm news outlets start rambling on about how this guy was rambling on their website about CONSPIRACY's or edgy anti political rhetoric, or just making sensationalized stories about this nut into political agenda's, as in and not limiting it to working on censoring sites like ats in its nature. Once it is branded in the hearts and minds of the public that sites like ats and the nature of ats is a reality, then this nut bag if not has already created a stigma, for the community of free thinkers as we are. This should and is the biggest concern in my opinion besides the loss of life in this story. With all due respect this is not just directed at ats it is directed at a free form of communication etc. etc. in a venue. Alas its always just a matter of time until pure freedoms are taken. Heck man it will just take a few looks of the front page or the RECENT POSTS, tab for the feds to really start looking at websites like ats, I mean just go look at the recent posts. Posts range from "I am a alien" to "I see spaceships in my backyard" to "I shot at a alien the other night in my backyard" oh wait that one was removed. You get my point. What I am afraid of is sites like this no matter how silly the posts can be observed and constantly messed with until silly post cannot be made anymore and perhaps, and I mean perhaps the extinction of free thinking sites like this one. Thats not being extreme either. I do know this something is going to change as a result of this, and it will effect how we navigate in our rights to freedom I am afraid.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

No. However, we won't be surprised if there is some contact today.

SO,

I am not sure why they should have to contact ATS at all, and here is my reasoning.

1) We all here on ATS know that government workers/officials have accounts on ATS, so they have direct access to everything that every other member has, if they didn't I would be really surprised.

2) ATS has nothing to hide, all the information is there just login in, and do a search on the user name.

3) Since he, the so called accused, didn't fit in at ATS speaks volumes, most people that don't fit in drift away sooner or later, because they offer nothing constructive, nor any positive solutions

4) Anyone on ATS that has been here long enough knows our motto "Deny Ignorance" this means on every level

5) The decorum on ATS follows a strict guideline of the ATS Terms & Conditions, if anyone steps out of bounds they are warned, then banned. ATS is no different from any other forum, in fact, even more strict than any other forum I have ever been to.

reply to post by Ben81


Is that his mugshot from his recent crimes, or earlier? He does look like a murderous creep.

Originally posted by Jason88
reply to post by Ben81

 

Is that his mugshot from his recent crimes, or earlier? He does look like a murderous creep.

yes it was just released

If you are of sound mind and fair moral standing (not religious or social, but you believe within yourself to be fair and to know how recognise your own moral compass) and intelligent enough to try and separate fact from fiction then I think all of us, on ATS who can, should try to understand what has happened.

A lot can be found out by looking at the patterns (something I tend to be good at). In the case of Erad3 I did some analysis which a few members gave me kudos for but by no means was it substantial or as in depth as it could be.

I had a look at the Erad3 profile, did not assume it was the same person as the guy being touted on TV but I wanted to take an objective look at the evidence in front of me:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are much more experienced people on ATS who can do a better job than me, at least then we can get an idea what makes these people stand out from the crowd (the pattern in the way they post, the responses etc).

But in the same light we shouldn't start policing this board...

Generally if someone is aggressive and vocal that is a point to note but you have to remember a lot of it is banter sometimes as we all have an internet warrior inside of us.

Adios.

Originally posted by cybertroy
I believe I speak for most. ATS members, though we may not agree with everything that is happening in the world, we want peace.

We want positive change, and we aren't murderers. We are not terrorists. ATS strictly prohibits terrorist type activities. Many of us are simply concerned patriots, and we just don't want our constitution destroyed. No man or woman of this planet wants their freedoms destroyed. And, every man and woman deserves to know the truth.

erad3 does not represent what ATS is. If erad3 is indeed Jared Loughner, let it be known that the members of ATS does not support his senseless actions.

Troy

Exactly so and well said. ATS members are the world, and represent diverse viewpoints from everywhere on the planet.

We surely do get into intensely heated discussions with one another, that is a fact, but I think most of us realize that such debates are the crucible in which once all else is burned away, some element of truth resides.

Denying ignorance implies finding knowledge.

With the wounds of this horrible event still raw, some people are jumping to conclusions, one of which may be argued that ATS is a bunch of right-wing nutcases, which certainly is NOT the case, and there is no indication that this person was influenced by ATS, quite the opposite.

I think the open door policy to that member's posts is a very good idea. Transparency such as that says more about what ATS is and who we are than anything else could.

reply to post by Bicent76


Got to agree with you. Though I take ATS as mostly fiction and escapist fantasy reading. If I was a sci-fi author I would troll this site non-stop for book ideas.

Personally, I just don't see ATS as that important in the scheme of things - it's heavily moderated with reasonable members who do a great deal of policing one another. Like the bigger sites, Google, YouTube, Facebook - it can't be responsible for everything, it's too vast. But unlike those sites, it has great moderators who try to control the craziest of crazy content. That's the key, IMHO, the leadership on this site makes it different and a typically safer place regardless of the fictional "what if I shoot down an Alien" thread (I remember that one, and remember it getting taken down, which is a great example of the violence, fictional or not, that is not tolerated by leadership here).

Not helpful

I am supportive and pleased with the actions of ATS staff on this issue.

An easy route would have been to delete his account and postings. As with keeping with the ATS motto (deny ignorance) you have chosen to not only leave everything intact, but place a ban on the account to maintain the integrity of the account.

I really don’t see that much reason for LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) to contact ATS except to confirm the integrity of the data for prosecution purposes. I would assume this may include database access which carries a few more details which may not be publicly viewable. It seems Loughner’s postings where done on numerous sites, so much of it is redundant, but I would think a good prosecutor would collect everything he/she could possibly get.

As far as a public statement goes, I think there is more upside than downside on a thoughtful and insightful public statement to the media. I would think a press conference format with a short Q&A afterwards would be preferable to a one on one with a reporter.

The fact is that “Conspiracy Theorists” are often labeled as anti-government and fringe. That’s not going to change with those who already think that. It should, however, be noted that the first thing LEO did after taking Loughner into custody was search for possible conspirators w/Loughner. When LEO investigates for possible conspiracy, it is their job. When private citizens do the same they are often labeled as nut jobs. ATS members, true to their nature, are looking into all possible angles in this incident just as LEO is. We may spend a lot of time at it and come up with nothing, or an ATS member may find something of great value to LEO. I think this is a great service to the truth and to our country and represents why many people are drawn here.

We have a lot of distress in our country right now. From how government is run, to how Americans are going to pay their bills. The mentally unstable are ill equipped to handle this increasing distress. I couldn’t imagine what it would be like to not have a sound mind in today’s multimedia world of constant crisis. This does raise questions with me as to how much is too much on TV and the internet, especially being acutely aware now that mentally unstable people have access to (and view) everything I have viewed over the years. My initial thought is that Freedom comes not only with a price, but great responsibility. Although, right now, I think that is little comfort to the victims of this heinous act.

This is a severe tragedy, but we should also remember that there are daily tragedies for those who need psychological help – most of which end in anonymous suicide. This is not to say Loughner should not be held 100% accountable for his actions, he undoubtedly should. The vast majority of paranoid schizophrenics do not pose a danger to society, but to themselves. Loughner has an additional dynamic to him that cannot be blamed on any particular website or political group. Look at his mugshot (page 9). I see pride in the evil he did in his eyes, it did not matter to whom he did it to in the end. Whatever he schemed up in his head was an excuse to commit a heinous act which he was already intent on doing. This was not immediately apparent in his writings on ATS. I wonder for how long this dynamic was brewing and what finally triggered his actions.

am i my brothers keeper?

are you?

is ATS?

Something that has been said, but I wish to reiterate. This man, is not what ATS is about. His actions are not representative of ATS. His connection to the ATS community is simply that he made an account here.

He came here looking for like minded people and found none. The members of ATS run the gambit in that some are high school drop outs and some are Doctors. In other words there are all kinds of people here. But one thing that a true ATSer is NOT, is a murderer.

This man is not a member of our community and never truly has been. Yes, that is right. You can join the website and still not be a true member of our community.

I wish for all who read this to know. No true member of ATS supports, accepts or agrees with the actions that this man took.

What we are looking at is a man who is psychotic. His actions were Psychotic and very disturbing and by no means are they representative of what a true ATSer is.

Ladies and gentlemen, former member or not. This man is NOT a member of our community. Nor is anyone capable of such a horrible act.

As a member of ATS and a veteran of the website and as a human being in general, I denounce this mans actions. I detest this mans actions. I despise this mans actions and I strongly wish to make that known.

reply to post by ShogunAssassins


I agree with you, Shogun. There is nothing wrong in asking people who have a lot of media face time and have a lot of clout with listeners/followers to be more responsible with their words. Its not about being careful about every word you speak, but the general implications of what you say as a whole. Some of these politicians and media personalities have consistently used violent rhetoric against those they disagree with. In my book, it is outrageous that anyone such as you or I would be accused of censorship for simply requesting they be more careful when all we are asking for is some integrity and consideration. I do not think they should be forced to speak differently.

I saw somewhere a blogger posting the violent rhetoric that has consistently come from people on the right (I AM NOT saying this is the only place it comes from, just that this blogger only had quotes from that side of the aisle). Talking about killing liberals, assassinating congressman, choking the life out of people and wondering if they should hire a hit man to do it. To say the least, it was very disturbing what some of these people say, but if someone were to ever take them seriously and act upon their supposed flippant remarks, they would never claim one iota of responsibility.

Look, if there was a person I couldn't stand and all I did was talk badly about them and muse about the different things I would like to see happen to that person and someone who consistently listened to these rants actually acted on some of what I said or even implied, you bet I would feel like a complete a-hole and apologize for my remarks. I would always wish I could take back what I said. What I don't get is the people that say these things over and over and over again acting surprised when something does happen to the very people they constantly degrade and DEHUMANIZE and then claim utter innocence. It's rather disgraceful, imo.

Originally posted by Monsterenergy791
Of course ATS should not be seen as a harborer of a murderer.
It's quite obvious to see how flawed and deranged his thoughts are when reading his posts and threads.
It's great to see the ATS community counter his arguments with tangible and sane comments because this shows we can see clearly when someone's thoughts are just too radical and nonsensical and begs the question of mental health, age (very young), or possible hoax. With Jared Loughner however, it was no hoax, he really did think the way he did and it's a shame he did what he did.

I dont think people countered his arguments because they appeared radical to ATS but because of the odd way he communicated and his use of the language is absurd. Had i read his threads and posts before the tragic events, I wouldve pinned him as a hoaxer. But more likely the truth is that hes not only mentally ill but mentally disabled, he either has no grasp of the english language or has adapted an absurd manner of writing. So most of the resentment towards him on ATS this summer probably stemmed from not being able to comprehend whatever he was saying.

I liked how someone responded to him by saying: "You seem to have zero understanding for how anything functions in this world, and therefor you deem it all to be a hoax."

which is probably true, he was confused in his head about many things as it seems.