A look inside the mind of erad3 (most-likely Jared Loughner)

I have not read every post so if this has been covered already my apologies.
I believe that the posts are not necessarily linked directly to the subject matter. It seems more likely that the poster is attempting to communicate to us the method of manipulation to which he was subjected.

I can see a relationship between his posts and the Delphi Method.
Going through the post line for line we see a pattern that repeats.

“If the design of the NASA Space Shuttle keeps the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit then the NASA Space Shuttle is at a temperature for human life.”

This is the ‘if – then’ statement. The start of the routine.
Now follows a statement of fact followed by ‘hence’ then another fact.

“The NASA Space Shuttle isn’t at a temperature for human life.
Hence, the design of the NASA Space Shuttle doesn’t keep the black body temperature of −454 °F from the outside orbit.”

The technique being used influences consensus to trick the mind into accepting the rest of the argument. The victim ‘forgets’ that there are possibilities ‘outside’ of the ‘if – then’ proposal.

An easier way to understand would be to look at a simple trick the media uses.

Let the people vote – yes, but limit the choice. Get them arguing amongst themselves until the agree to a consensus ‘reality’. The facilitator keeps presenting the ‘if – then’ part of the routine and in no time all are toeing the line – or have been expelled from the group. One of the oldest tricks in the book.

I would not be surprised if this dreadful and tragic event was linked to some sort of ‘dark’ influence.

I also have a gut feeling that a great deal of light will come through – for the better of all.

Love & Light

reply to post by Bicent76


Not on this thread mind you but on this forum...

Originally posted by InTheShadows
First of all, I've seen no mention of the time frame that his posts and threads were in. This "person" was only active for a few months last year, with July being the most active time frame. This is roughly the same period that his classmates at Pima Community College expressed that they were actually fearful being in the same classroom with him.

I noticed this as well. It seems that his condition was intensifying in the last 6 months when he began posting multiple threads on ATS and putting in time and effort to respond to the other posters. This is also the time frame when he began posting multiple videos on youtube.

Perhaps there was some catalyst or some chemical change in his body that pushed him over the edge in the last months? I would not be surprised to find out that he stopped/started/changed medication in the last year.

I would also note his attitude and demeanor, both when posting and as described by witnesses during interviews. Friends said that he thrived on chaos and destruction in news interviews. Witnesses describe him as being "pleased with himself" immediately after the shooting, that he was happy with all of the chaos and death he had caused.

I think he believes that he is much more intelligent than everyone else and that he is on a different level. His posts on ATS attempted to emulate deductive logical reasoning, but (as is often the case) his statements did not reveal their intended meaning over the internet forum so he came off as distant, confused, and looney. I think posters on ATS may have misinterpreted many of his arguments because he did wrote cryptically and wasn't specific and that his response to this was to put himself on a pedestal and pretend that everyone else was too stupid (illiterate) to understand.

This was exactly what happened when he encountered Giffords previously and he asked a question that she did not understand (what is government if words have no meaning?) I think he was trying to ask a question about the truthfulness of politicians, rhetoric, empty promises, etc.. and from the perspective of a voter, why would/should we trust our government if our politicians lie to us? He couldn't communicate that because of the way his brain works and the question became garbled through his perspective and what ended up being spoken was a confusing presumptuous question that people considered crazy.

I also thought some of his writing was very similar to exercises that are normally done in a college level freshman logic course. Perhaps this way of writing was inspired by a philosophy/logic course he took at the community college, or maybe these were some of his actual logic assignments, perhaps ones that were a warning sign to some people at the college where he was suspended? Obviously he tried to twist and misuse this logic as confirmation bias, to validate his extreme and obscure beliefs, and was not able to reason from another perspective.

I am interested in reading mind control and other conspiracy theories on this subject. One thought that crossed my mind is that his posts on ATS and youtube were staged as an insanity defense (we know he planned ahead and he only began posting online recently and almost seemed intentionally obscure, as itf trying to present himself as insane.) But perhaps this was only him trying to reach out to the world to give it one last chance to submit to his irrationality before he put his stamp on it.

Now is the time for knee-jerk overreactions to this event by society and the media vultures to descend for capitalist profit and expert ego building.

I have been following this situation, from the numerous threads and different perspectives posted here on ATS. I do not know to much about MK ULTRA, however i do feel as if the Jared Loughner could have been a prospective victim of MK ULTRA.

As i was doing reserach on the MK ULTRA i came across a video on youtube of MK ULTRA vitcim testonmines and found a rather unique coincidence, The Vitcim in this video states that all the expiremnts were performed on her in TUSCON, AZ....... the hometown of the Shooter... i do not know what to think of this however wanted to share with my fellow community. Go to 59 seconds for quote.

reply to post by Bicent76


Why is there little talk of a machurian candiate possibilty? I know in the begginnging people talked about that but does a person really have to be in the miltary for that. I don't think we had anything to do with an influence over this young mans mind.
Does anyone else watch consipracy theroy with Jesse Venture they had a whole thing about the manchurian candiate. Why is there little talk about what Jared actually said after arrest? If this guy dies or gets the death penalty then we know this scenoria could have been possible.
Another thing to consider is the congresswoman was proposing a 5% pay cut for congress this could make her a target. The judge I believe had some other issues that the government may have not liked. Just something to think about.
If I am wrong about this please post where this was talked about and ruled out besides him not being in the miltary. It would be easier just to use an ordinary citzen because they are already pretty desperate. Maybe the person is offered a lump sum or money and then given a new idenity?
Funny how I post this and then I look at the post above.

No offense "intheshadows", but the demeanor and ideas behind your post there scare me just as much as those of erad3.

edit on 10-1-2011 by LongSeptember because: clarity

How?

All I want is a safe, sane world. I'm tired of waking up to this kind of news. Aren't you?

I'm not talking about killing crazy people. Just put them somewhere where they are not a danger to themselves or society. I don't want to go a political function with my daughter and worry about her safety. I know that these occurrences are rare, so it's very easy to say: "Well, it wont happen to me, look at the odds." But the fact is that it does happen. I'm not saying you have to live in fear every time you walk out the door, but why do I have to walk out my door knowing that there's a possibility that it might happen?

I'm not asking for a perfect world here, there are some nut jobs that you just can't profile. You can't see them so to speak. But if this was such a "senseless and preventable" tragedy, then why don't we make sense out of it and do our best to prevent it from happening again?

jared lee loughner, thats the real question...

why do all of these guys go by three names? lee harvey oswald? john wilkes booth?

i think thats the real conspiracy here.....

reply to post by dreamseeker


so your saying this guy who shot up a grocery store with a politician in it was brainwashed? By some Power that be? Now see this is the part in the community that concerns me. Is it possible? I guess but their is no evidence pointing to it. It looks more like a severe mental issue, due to what I dunno nor do I want to try to understand how this guy's clock tics, but I am thinking more along the lines of mental illness then some Manchurian candidate brainwashing or something. I Think calling a spade a spade, is what we are seeing here. Not to mention the guy was a drug abuser. That does not help.

See, even in these few posts people are acting like i called for censorship.. When in reality all i said was take responsibility for what you say and keep in mind that weak minded people will be reading it also.

Also keep in mind i said things like a handful, a few this whole time.. I did not blanket blame this forum but several members here yes, i can see how their delusions would effect someone with mental illness.

Just to be clear, erad3 had not logged on to ATS since September, 2010. He was not active after July, 2010. Apparently some people have the mistaken idea he was posting here in December, he wasn't.

This is a tragic situation that nobody could have foreseen from his posts here.

With over 200,000 registered members the reality is that just like YouTube or FaceBook, ATS is going to attract every type of person humanity generates.

Springer...

ATS should do what ATS believes is the right thing to do. Personally I don't see any reason for ATS to make a public announcement of any kind. ATS is an open forum where people are free to register, create threads and post. I honestly don't see how that warrants suspicion of any kind to be pinned on ATS or its community to the point that the site is targeted or demonized. That is, not unless sites like Google, Facebook, Yahoo, and other sites accessed by people who have committed wrongdoings need to be held accountable for indirectly and unknowingly interacting with a criminal suspect.

reply to post by Bicent76


yah, likewise Bicent,.. I'm not saying all the forum or even most.. But some of ou really need to stand up and say enough!

I do understand it though, its fun and exciting to be part of something bigger then yourself. Also very easy to get caught up in.

reply to post by Springer


Just because he wasnt posting doesnt say he wasnt reading really.. Hell, i have been around this site since early 00's but you wouldnt know it from my join date and posts.

reply to post by ShogunAssassins


I'm pretty sure he was reading newspapers and any of the millions of other sites out there as well. That has nothing to do with what I wanted to clarify.

Springer...

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Bicent76

 

Why is there little talk of a machurian candiate possibilty? I know in the begginnging people talked about that but does a person really have to be in the miltary for that. I don't think we had anything to do with an influence over this young mans mind.
Does anyone else watch consipracy theroy with Jesse Venture they had a whole thing about the manchurian candiate. Why is there little talk about what Jared actually said after arrest? If this guy dies or gets the death penalty then we know this scenoria could have been possible.
Another thing to consider is the congresswoman was proposing a 5% pay cut for congress this could make her a target. The judge I believe had some other issues that the government may have not liked. Just something to think about.
If I am wrong about this please post where this was talked about and ruled out besides him not being in the miltary. It would be easier just to use an ordinary citzen because they are already pretty desperate. Maybe the person is offered a lump sum or money and then given a new idenity?
Funny how I post this and then I look at the post above.

edit on 10-1-2011 by dreamseeker because: (no reason given)

Yea this is what I'm really curious about.

Someone also said they that saw "handlers" with him before the time of the shooting. can't quite remember where I heard that at, i'll have to look.

I'm afraid that will see more regulations on gun control laws or some law passed to push internet regulations on us.

Originally posted by OneisOne
Thank you ATS for not taking a cowards way out. I have read that many have scrubbed web pages of things they think could reflect negatively on them. With ATS this is not the case. You are proving that keeping information open and available is the best course of action. And to me that speaks volumes on your mission statement, deny ignorance.

Seconded!

I have no idea what ATS could say in a public statement.

Perhaps you could present the condolences and sorrow virtually all the members, staff and owner here feel about this tragedy, and the angst we have that this mentally deranged person couldn't have been taken off the streets and treated in time to prevent it.

ATS is in no way responsible for this lunatic, but I don't think that could be worked into a statement very easily without it appearing an effort to cover ATS's butts. I think ATS's open access to his posts makes that statement well enough, without addressing it head-on; it speaks for itself.

I think keeping his account postings open is great idea. I've read his postings from the earliest to the last, and clearly anyone can tell that this man was troubled long before he showed up on ATS.

reply to post by mydarkpassenger


well perhaps, but I just don't think just a few hours after the incident, it is appropriate to be discussing conspiracy reasoning behind this heinous act of violence. At face value we see an obvious mental problem, drug use, and social isolation. Given signs of reasoning behind such violence.

reply to post by Springer


I have no doubt he was... Though i have also mentioned that the media should start to take some responsibility also. And the politicians out there.. We live in a time full of propaganda, sadly..
Not a call for censorship simply a call for people to think twice before they say something really, really... silly! lol But no, i'm not saying ATS made him do what he did, i am saying several things added and contributed to what was already an agitated, impared mental state and that part could have been avoided. One of those "in a perfect world" kinda things over all..

And sorry, not trying to highjack the thread.

Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by mydarkpassenger

 

well perhaps, but I just don't think just a few hours after the incident, it is appropriate to be discussing conspiracy reasoning behind this heinous act of violence. At face value we see an obvious mental problem, drug use, and social isolation. Given signs of reasoning behind such violence.

We should be looking at the evidence as fresh as it comes, its not conspiracy, its us trying to get to the bottom of what really happened, whether he is just a one-off nut, or a Manchurian Candidate.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
To be honest (not that anyone cares, but I'll tell ya' anyways) .. the fact that this has happened AGAIN here is making me rethink my posting habits. Now if anything happens to me IRL (in real life) and it is said that I've been here for years ... the same site that TWO murderers have been ... it wouldn't go over well. Anyways, this is what is on my mind today. Not sure what I'm going to do about it ...

FlyersFan,

This is very close to how I feel about it, but I go in the other direction.

We may remember that the vitriol and anger was much higher a year ago, two years ago, or even more. People are still incredibly frustrated, but now we see opposite viewpoints actually being debated instead agendas being shouting over each others heads. What I'm saying is that there were probably twenty people on ATS who were working themselves up to commit murder, and instead only two blew their lids. I consider that a major victory.

Let's be serious. We are not therapist here. But a person who considers themselves so far outside the box that they have fallen off the world, or that the world has left them behind, can still come here and float an idea. At ATS we hardly ever agree with each other, but it can not be said that no one heard what you were saying.

I'm not going to change my posting habits at all. In fact I feel that this incident validates my feelings from a few years ago that people were far more volatile than was healthy. If we stop, or reduce the number of posts we make all that will really do is remove the number of perceived ears in the room.

Consider that old movie Taxi from 1976 staring De Niro. There is a scene right before he goes off and shoots people where he confides in a fellow driver that he is having issues. The other driver just spouts off a bunch of pop psychology and never really asks him was the problem is. In other words, the other driver isn't really listening to him.

At ATS we do not ignore. We do not deny that erad3 was here. And at this point it seems even more important not to be ignorant of the value that lending our ears to this forum is having. If there is someone out there like him, I [color=gold]want them to come here and sound off. I want the chance to hear them first. I sincerely believe that we have saved many lives. Just because our positive impacts are not well publicized does not make them any less real.


David Grouchy