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Jared Loughner - Lets try to understand-its NOT a Conspiracy

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posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by asperetty
reply to post by Obinhi
 


Idk, the whole reason I wrote this was because I feel that he definitely was not as crazy as you might believe, and that we can easily make sense of what he did because there was sense to it.

All I know is that he is not insane. Murdering people does not equate to insanity. It just means you are desperate.

But if people are just going to write him off and justify condemning him because he killed a 9 year old then like I said before, you are wasting that 9 year old's death and all the others killed or harmed by Jared by not trying to understand the reason for it because there was a reason that was so obviously clear.

He understood everything he was writing and how it would be perceived by us all and tried from the beginning to get us to drop our prejudices, but even then he knew we wouldnt. That's why he kept mocking our literacy throughout. But notice he never really started to open up until the last few vids, where he stopped talking about the state of yours and his mind, and he began to explain himself and his reasoning. I think most of us here would actually have agreed with this guy if he had not been a murderer and could explain himself better.


IMO, your OP and now this last reply seems to 'glorify' this dirt bag SOB. Trying to understand the ranting of a lunatic SERVES NO PURPOSE. He appears to be another Timothy McVeigh. A nihilistic narcissist. If he had such little regard for life, fine. He should have blown his brains out rather than the COWARDLY act he inflicted on others.

I suggest you take your Junior Psycho-Analyst module in for a tune up but stop GLORIFYING this scum bag by devoting time attempting to understand his nonsensical ramblings!




posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by asperetty
 


Nothing with this murder spree even resembles a conspiracy. I think many of us have fallen into the trap of reading between the lines when there are no lines. In the scheme of things, Congresswoman Giffords wasn't important to any great cause or anything. The poor woman was gunned down by a whackjob. Plain and simple.

This was just supposed to be a general reply to the entire thread, for the record.
edit on 10-1-2011 by dialecticchaos77 because: Wrong reply clicked



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


Im not glorifying him. I was just trying to find out why he did it. Sure, he can be insane, but that does not explain why he killed people. Sure, he was disillusioned, but about what? The more I try to understand him, the more I realize he is just like most of us who dont trust our govt. or our leaders. That was the core of his message. He may be into animal sacrifice, drugs, depressed, a loner, strange, a total nut case...but that doesn't explain why he chose to kill 6 people and injure 12.

Obviously you have not read everything I wrote, or if you did, you chose to ignore the fact that I condone his acts. But I'm not concerned about his acts. I concerned as to why he acted that way, and I tried in my own way to understand that because I was not, and I thought I should share my conclusions. Call me what you will, but know that you are imposing your pseudo-psycho analysis on me as well. Should I therefore refute everything you say?

Did he kill because he was angry? Why was he angry? Because he is insane? Why is he insane?

Sorry if you are confused with my intentions and his.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by asperetty
Obviously you have not read everything I wrote, or if you did, you chose to ignore the fact that I condone his acts.


I think I may have been a bit harsh but you may want to brush up a bit on your command of language.

You don't "condone his acts" do you?



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 




* DO NOT * condone his acts.

Though he may have had no respect for life, that doesn't mean he killed just to kill, which I believe is true insanity. He had a purpose. What do you think it was?
edit on 10-1-2011 by asperetty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by asperetty
 


His purpose is of no interest to me. Perhaps he wanted to inflict his rage to elevate his false sense of self importance which is of little consequence. A little girl will not see her 10th birthday. Understanding his indiscriminate disregard for human life in committing this heinous act will not bring her back.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


There is no point in stalling progress over digression. This event has opened doors. The girl is dead. Its a real shame. Now we're about to through the cycle once again...

Why did she die? Because some insane person killed her? Why did he kill her?....

Without understanding why she died, you are wasting her sacrifice.

The problem did not stem from Jared. It stemmed from what he perceived of the world. What did he perceive? Could any of it have any substance that maybe you should look into? That was his message. That was the point of Christina's death and all the violence. It wasn't just a random killing. It had a purpose. But no one wants to understand that. We're all satisfied with the purpose being to kill kill kill. Im not saying to support him. I'm saying to see the picture that is bigger than your television screen.

Yup, our grammar structure is controlled.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by asperetty
 


There you go again. You are now becoming melodramatic. We're done. Buh bye.



posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by asperetty
 


Hello,
I appreciate your translation of the videos. The man is not stupid by any means, but I suggest that he was under the control of another.. Mind Control. He does not appear to me to be insane.

With your translations I could understand "whoever" who said he was like a poet. To me it is like Shakespeare that I took in high school. I took everything literally, and never seemed to clue in to what was really meant.

I am that way today with song lyrics that I just LOVE, only to find out they are about drugs, sex and everything else that can be turned into depravity, by "being poetic".

I could sense Jared's disappointment in the Government, and the systems, as here in Canada I can see rights and privacy, etc. one by one being lost, and am well aware of the corruption in the Government, especially when I research 9-11 more and more.

Now Jared committed murder and he will pay, but was he brainwashed into doing it?

Sirhan Sirhan still does not remember shooting RFK,..............................because he didn't...
I was 24 when JFK was assassinated and, when Ruby shot Oswald, I believed from that point it was a setup.

There is nothing simple and straightforward about life anymore. There is usually a long trail to get back to the beginning, when someone had the very first thought about committing a crime. I believe that because of the corruption in high places....far more now than when.......hmmm?...... when I was 8 and heard about Roswell and the UFOs and was scared to death.

I remember the MKUltra coming to Canada in 1947-8 and Dr. Cameron being charged, but even then the Media omitted the fact that the CIA was behind it.

I'll be interested to see who has been behind Jared's loss of integrity, feeling that he had to commit these murders.

Respectfully
CS71 (now)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 01:02 AM
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Honestly I cannot believe that the OP and some posters are seemingly trying to justify his reasoning and actions, I have a friend that went to school with this guy and when my friend say's he was very unstable I believe him wholly. I mean read most of his posts, he does not have a grip on reality, he does not have a logical reasoning system and I believe he was just trying to justify the actions that he premeditated to seem like some quasi-hero. I for one do not believe that any of you should try to glorify his actions, his actions were that of someone who had a total disregard for human life, he had one goal to carry out his sick illusions and try to gain attention after essentially being a failure. He most likely was going to try to pull a suicide by cop too. I mean really if he was so concerned about humanity he would have NEVER even considered such heinous actions. This is just my humble opinion.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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ok, he was on law enforcement radar as a troublemaker... if THE DIVISION wanted to take out the congresswoman NIKITA style.. their STEALTH computers could have found they were in the same synagogue.. then a handler starts prepping him.. not a PROBABILITY but a POSSIBILITY



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 01:59 AM
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aspretty

Well I have not posted in while on ATS because of my discouragement at how the site has lost its intelligent edge. In fact Loughner's supposed posts would have had me leaving within seconds.

I find your post, right or wrong, to be a good step in trying to understand this person. You may be way off base, but at least you took it to the next level in trying. Some don't want that, they want a tidy world to live in, so expect a backlash. I'm sure if they had a child with a mental illness they may be more interested in your thoughts, but its tough to follow abstract thinking like this--especially from someone that killed innocent people. And I'm sure if the 9 year old girl was yours you would have a different take on how you see him.

There's a Donnie Darko vibe going on here. His other posts are just plain wrong factually--if they are his--so I think you may have to retool the depth to which he was thinking. Either way, I understand where some people want you to stop giving life to a person they want to demonize and be done with. It's a lonely road to walk where you are going trying to filter his message. Hang in there. It sounds like you are doing good at keeping his message in one bag, yet acknowledging his heinous actions as wrong.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 03:19 AM
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I did not watch every video, but I did read every thing you had to say on them. And I think you're basically right. You may be off on a few things as you are just speculating but basically you're more right than wrong. However I have an unorthodox opinion about all this. It's extremely interesting to me how when we all sit down and watch movies it's okay for Hollywood to portray acts of violence like this political extremist acted out and no one is shocked, every one in fact wildly likes political dramas (not everyone but obviously from popularity a large number of people). For example I am not saying anything extremist I'm just saying use your imagination.

Take the example of the movie, V for Vendetta and put that scenario in place here and have the final scene in the movie happen here. The alternative, conspiracy theory, or whatever else you'd like to call everyone here, worldnetdaily, infowars, coast to coast am, etc........we make up a pretty large minority - - -Would we all really be concerned with the family members of the fallen politicians the day the massacre happened???? We'd be shocked to say the least don't get me wrong. However I believe some of you out there though perhaps not admitted would celebrate that our long powerful and overreaching government was dead, don't you think? Just a wild thought I had I'm sure I'm going to catch hell over this reply but hey.........What else are forums for......Btw I certainly am not condoning the actions of the man in question especially over the nine year old, that's just sad really.....I empathize with the parents of the child, being that I'm a parent myself.....I'd want him dead too if it was my little girl....So any way food for thought.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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Maybe there are multiple dimensions to ANY thing.
Maybe in this human reality, there is no conspiracy.
Maybe in other dimensions, there IS.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 05:54 AM
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I personaly think you are reading too far intoo this and give him credit where its not due, by watching his videos, and reading his posts (have you read his posts?) he is a deluded paranoid schizo (and I dont wave that diagnose round loosely) he gives himeself way too much credit, and takes only his own statement intoo mind, he does not accept any other point of view other then his own.

People that are not of thair senses kill other people
Therefore insane people kill other people
Jared kills other people
therefore jared is insane.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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Good Thread Asperetty


Alot of the translations of his videos and posts you have made make sense, i also have watched and read through them all.

To come to the conclusion that this guy is just a lunatic, wackjob, deluded paranoid schizo by going through all of his posts and videos is very narrow minded, yes he might have been all of these things but we have to see things from his POV and translate the hidden messages from his posts if there are any at all.

I think you might have hitt the nail on the head with the translations, but the mind control stuff is still a viable theory as are a few others and im keeping an open mind on this one, but i 100% think that there is a hidden message in his ramblings.

S & F



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by kera1337
 


Im not giving him credit. Im not saying hes not a paraschiz. Im not saying hes right. Im just trying understand why he chose to take the step to murder. He gave us hints as to why in his vids, and everyone shunned it as psychotic babble. One thing I realized is that even psychopaths have reasons. They may be completely delusional, but there is a reason for their actions, whether sane or not. Because I could not jump on to the left wing radical explanation or the government hyponosis theories or the suggestions the Tea Party influenced him, I chose to learn it myself. He is a murderer, I cant deny. Hes sick. I cant deny this. But he did not kill just to kill. He did not kill necessarily because he lacks respect for life. He did not kill for any mainstream political view or just to cause terror. He did not kill to satisfy some sort of sick satanic ritual. He did not kill because he was a drug addict. He did not kill because he read the Commi Manifesto. He killed for three reasons:

1) to gain as much attention as possible
2) to prove his own liberty to himself and to the world in his own sick way
3) to show the rest of us Americans we are not as free as we are lead to believe


A jihadist is honored because he/she is sacrificing themselves in order to fight against the "tyrannical forces" that are occupying them. They use violent terror and mass hysteria to get the most attention in order to show the world that the occupiers will not prevail or any other message they want to send that otherwise would not have been heard. But the point is that they are sending a specific message. They are not just killing. Sadly they use the wrong method.

Jared is our version of a jihadist. The problem with jihadists is that they use the same means to spread their message as the force that they are fighting. This results in perpetual war. This is what I'm trying to avoid. If we stop thinking and reproach the act at face value, then we are performing an injustice to the lives sacrificed because we are not taking the time to understand why they had to be killed and we will only continue the cycle of oppressive tyranny and defensive radicalism.

Anyways this thread was not about saying hes right or wrong. It was about trying to understand why he took such drastic measures. So if you want to put up your own theories that are less conspiratorial and more reasonable then please do. I wanted to talk about why he did this and not defend why i decided to try and find out for myself.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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Well, I think that acts of violence are NOT going to open peoples mind and are not going to make your ramblings any clearer. What he did will just drive an already deeply driven wedge between people who visit these websites and those who don't. The media and everyone else will label him as a crackpot and therefore scorn everyone that they find are like HIM. An infinite year? Maybe in his world but not mine... A number is, IN EVERY WAY, FINITE. I mean .... come on, I understand a good debate that everyone UNDERSTANDS and that actually makes sense. I read more than I should have in his threads and he just goes in circles not making any sense what so ever. This is not the way to open peoples minds, going in circles with your "If's" and "therefore's", you need to be clear with your message or people will look away and or scorn you. Which I think happened to him and I believe he really got angry about it. I'm not sure what made him do this, but one thing is INFINITELY clear, this kid saw things very distorted. The truth is sometimes hard to see....



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by vertedtwylight
Well, I think that acts of violence are NOT going to open peoples mind and are not going to make your ramblings any clearer.

Just something i wanted to input on, hasn't most change in the world happened from violence? Like the Russian, American, Cuban revolutions etc. In your post you say violence wont open peoples minds. Although in all three of these cases I'd say it did, and there was always a reason behind it. Maybe Jared wanted to see change just like those people did, although violence is not the way, It's the only way people can get attention now a days it seems like it.
Im not trying to justify his actions, because what he did WAS wrong, but maybe he thought it was the only way that the whole of America would hear him.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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I understand exactly what the OP is trying to say. He had a message; he is hoping to reach the people. He may have been frustrated by the lack of attention on his ideas so he does something to get that attention. Unforunately many people will not understand or want to look at his message.
I knew there was some method to his madness in a sense. He is trying to reach people and enlighten them. He is always showing people that he does not let anyone control the way he says things by using words in an unusual way. There is nothing wrong with his message at all. It is his actions that were wrong by killing innocent people.
I can understand feeling like you live in a society that misjudges you and all the time you have different beliefs. I bet a lot of people felt like him at one point forunately most people take different approaches. If only he could have had someone to talk to about all of this maybe this could have been prevented.



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