America has ‘reached the point of no return'

America has ‘reached the point of no return'

The Obama administration's $78 billion cut to US defense spending is a mere "pin-prick" to a behemoth military-industrial complex that must drastically shrink for the good of the republic, a former Reagan administration budget director recently told Raw Story.

"It amounts to a failed opportunity to recognize that we are now at a historical inflection point at which the time has arrived for a classic post-war demobilization of the entire military establishment," David Stockman said in an exclusive interview.

"The Cold War is long over," he continued. "The wars of occupation are almost over and were complete failures -- Afghanistan and Iraq. The American empire is done. There are no real seriously armed enemies left in the world that can possibly justify an $800 billion national defense and security establishment, including Homeland Security."

www.rawstory.com...

I wish Mr. Stockton good luck as
not too many people criticize the
Military Industrial Complex and live
to tell the tale.

But I will have to agree with him.
There is no enemy left worth spending
$800B on.

And I have been a proponent of shrinking
the defense budget for years. And I also think
cutting funds to DHS and disbanding the CIA
is in order as well. With internet and sat spying tech
we have now, the CIA has become obsolete.
A dinosaur that needs to be extinct.

Congress will not bother to get the governments house in order.

Every cut will either die in the senate, be offset by pork, or die at the hands of Obama's vetoes.
Congress and the politicos may think we can make it through 2011 without the market forcing
a huge depression on us...They may be right, they may be able to manipulate something to buy us another year, but let me assure you we will not make it to another election.

Gridlock-The Collapse of the US Economy(UPDATED)

The CIA will never be disbanded. It's instrumental in the running of the US, a key component, whether you like it or not. It's like asking Russia to disband its KGB. It's not just an organization that is used against a visible enemy (cold-war era, for example). These organizations are crucial in collecting intelligence essential to the survival of the state.

As for the comments that the cold war is over and there is no enemy, that's a little shortsighted. Another enemy will rise, it's just a matter of time. One needs to see what some other powerful nations are spending for their military to recognize that threats can and will rise again.

reply to post by boondock-saint


I would like to see the 700+ military bases in 130+ foreign countries widdled down to the exact number of bases where the foreign countries pay us to be there. If the country wants the US there, fine they can pay the price for the base.

We have the ability to hit any point on the planet in under 30 minutes now. My opinion in regards to the top secret "space plane" we know nothing about.

Yes, chaos would ensue in certain locations. Is it our duty and obligation to destroy our society to protect other countries?

I know people hate Glenn Beck but the theory of the Mutually Assured Economic Destruction is eye opening. So he proposed the governments tied us all together so that if one country goes down, we all go down.

What kind of INSANITY is that?

Anyway, good post OP.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

America has ‘reached the point of no return'

The Obama administration's $78 billion cut to US defense spending is a mere "pin-prick" to a behemoth military-industrial complex that must drastically shrink for the good of the republic, a former Reagan administration budget director recently told Raw Story.

"It amounts to a failed opportunity to recognize that we are now at a historical inflection point at which the time has arrived for a classic post-war demobilization of the entire military establishment," David Stockman said in an exclusive interview.

"The Cold War is long over," he continued. "The wars of occupation are almost over and were complete failures -- Afghanistan and Iraq. The American empire is done. There are no real seriously armed enemies left in the world that can possibly justify an $800 billion national defense and security establishment, including Homeland Security."

www.rawstory.com...

I wish Mr. Stockton good luck as
not too many people criticize the
Military Industrial Complex and live
to tell the tale.

But I will have to agree with him.
There is no enemy left worth spending
$800B on.

And I have been a proponent of shrinking
the defense budget for years. And I also think
cutting funds to DHS and disbanding the CIA
is in order as well. With internet and sat spying tech
we have now, the CIA has become obsolete.
A dinosaur that needs to be extinct.

The wars of occupation are not over. They will never be over. Does Israel ever look like it is about crash because of its treatment of Palestinians? Nope. Is occupying Afghanistan and Iraq doing more harm than good to America? Of course, but America, rule by corporations, will sink with its Military industrial complex buildup. America is so evil that it'll probably find a way to keep the old "occupy a country to take advantage of its resources" way of life.

Boondock, that's a very bold statement to say intelligence agencies (CIA and I know you have mentioned we get rid of them all) are obsolete. Could you elaborate or establish some more points? It got me researching a bit on whether or not your statement is true.

Originally posted by gandalph
Another enemy will rise, it's just a matter of time.

and if one doesn't rise,
one will be created out of thin air
to justify the budget funding.
Totally wrong in my opinion.
The Military Industrial Complex
perpetuates it's own existence.

Originally posted by DevilJin
Boondock, that's a very bold statement to say intelligence agencies (CIA and I know you have mentioned we get rid of them all) are obsolete. Could you elaborate or establish some more points? It got me researching a bit on whether or not your statement is true.

We have computer technology that can read
and decipher messages around the world.
We have spy satellites that can read a dog's
collar anywhere in the world and can listen
to conversations anywhere in the world.
With this type technology, why should
there be CIA agents? Spying can be
done from space and existing infrastructure.

The only thing the agents can do that
our tech can't do ......

is kill opponents and make it appear
to be accidental. So as far as I'm
concerned the CIA is nothing more
than a hit squad.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Any attempts at abolishing the CIA will lead you to a one way trip to the afterlife, free of charge. And same goes for any attempts at dismantling the military CONGRESSIONAL industrial complex. There was a time and a place for both of these things, we needed the military strength and stamina along with the top secret abilities of the CIA but that time ended 20 years ago.

Originally posted by Misoir
There was a time and a place for both of these things, we needed the military strength and stamina along with the top secret abilities of the CIA but that time ended 20 years ago.

exactly, like I said.
It's a dinosaur that
needs to be extinct.

And given the CIA's past history
of atrocities, over 6 Million deaths
world wide can be attributed to
it's existence.

With our strike capabilities and ability to place boots on the ground in 24 hours or less there is no need to have the bases that we have spread throughout the world. I would personally like to see the reduction of bases down to 2 bases. Japan and England (and only if they pay us.)

Nothing will ever replace human intelligence. No mater how sophisticated our electronic capabilities become. That was one of the largest failures of the CIA in regards to 'threats' that we have been trying to counter. But I do agree that the CIA has become a hindrance.

Alas...this won't happen.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Misoir
There was a time and a place for both of these things, we needed the military strength and stamina along with the top secret abilities of the CIA but that time ended 20 years ago.

exactly, like I said.
It's a dinosaur that
needs to be extinct.

And given the CIA's past history
of atrocities, over 6 Million deaths
world wide can be attributed to
it's existence.

All you're are talking about:" satellites/eschelon" etc is technical intelligence gathering;
All that intelligence has to be sorted;sifted;,analyzed in context of what we already know and compiled into a useable product( inteligence picture) for various levels to utilize.Your declaration of extinction is premature.(naieve and wrong.)
The world is a very" fluid" place.

To those that think the CIA should be abolished, I believe you are
way off base. Just my opinion though. They are assuredly a much
needed entity. Try to do without them. You would have total chaos
in this country without them. Try to live without police or fire departments.
Not the same thing, but they are all needed a lot. And there is no way
that someone can blantantly blame them for 6 million deaths worldwide.
That is pure nonsense. Without them, there would probably have been
60 million deaths before the CIA stepped in to quell things happening
all over the world. The CIA is NOT going anywhere. Wishful thinking
from some folk.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
With our strike capabilities and ability to place boots on the ground in 24 hours or less there is no need to have the bases that we have spread throughout the world. I would personally like to see the reduction of bases down to 2 bases. Japan and England (and only if they pay us.)

we have this ability ( boots on the ground in 24 hours)precisely because we have air basesand naval bases in 170 countries.
we can move troops abrahms tanks, hmmmv's and and strikers by c-17 airlifters.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Nothing will ever replace human intelligence. No mater how sophisticated our electronic capabilities become. That was one of the largest failures of the CIA in regards to 'threats' that we have been trying to counter. But I do agree that the CIA has become a hindrance.

Alas...this won't happen.

reply to post by boondock-saint
just wondering , you do not see china as a real future threat?????, say 10 15 years, if not sooner. yes the cold war is over, but remember this, "beware of the kings of the east".

Oh we've long been over the point of no return IMO. It just cant be ignored since its in our faces suddenly.. kind of snowballed. I see that the US will not "collapse" as some think. It is something new. SOmething that ensures our place in the international community. It is something we dont want it to be and slept while it was being created.

We have no exports. Our ships are the largest rusting dormant fleet in the country. We have no real food production thats sustainable. We have no industry.. that was engineered. Threads upon threads here point out what we were once and are no more able to produce for ourselves or have given away. Ask yourself what we have to offer to keep us viable. Ive said it before and I will say it for another decade.. like it or not.. we have supported it and have become the real dog of war of the world. It our only offering to the world now and how we must fit into the whole community.. the world community. You nor any decent politician ( if there is such a thing) will ever lay a finger on the military complex and intelligence.Not now.. we have created a monster and the monster is out of our control. It now controls itself and every one of us. Its all a grand performance.. and if you ask yourself what we have to offer.. and where all of this money goes.. and why we arent worried about chips being called in by China or other loaners.. you will see the truth. We are dangerous for the entire world.. and we have made agreements with other powers and world leaders so that there is a symbiotic relationship... we cant take them out they wont even speak of taking us out in any seriousness. Our monster will destroy itself and every one of us before it would allow itself to be destroyed. There has to be a balance for this to work.. and the world has ensured that this balance is there. Our military might is only one factor in being a dog of war.. its not that simple. Just ask yourself the above questions and see if you can come up with any other rational explanation for the actions of our govt in the last 40 years leading to what we are currently experiencing now. SOme of you agree that the economic collapse was engineered.. damned right. It all fits together perfectly.

Welcome to your new destiny and your new US of A. The question will be, will you raise up and fight it when you realize how far gone we are now or will you look to find a place to fit into it? 40 yrs ago you and I may have had a chance to change things. I do not believe that it is possible at this point to do a roll back to what we may have THOUGHT we were. SO where does that leave the freedom minded or the people who do not agree with this? Why do the people who do not agree with it feel that way? Did they feel that way when all of this was being set up and they played the left/right game and praised our presidents reactions to things.. think in terms of the actions and events in the last 40 years...

I dont have answers I guess. I just really feel what I am describing is the truth of the matter. Not in terms of possibilities or conspiracies.. but hard in your face easy to find actions and evidence of what we have been doing for several decades. Things we have allowed by inaction and sometimes by mistaken agreement due to our short sightedness. Ive looked frantically for any other end result that could happen given the evidence.. I sadly cant find a single other possibility.

reply to post by 46ACE


In-flight refueling can accomplish what having bases spread throughout the world does. The projection of force is just as prevalent.

C-5 Galaxy and C-17 Globemaster III creates an expeditionary force like none other. There is no reason to have the bases we have.

reply to post by Advantage
i beg to differ with you, most of all our the USA computer chips, wire, circuit boards, steel, are made out side the USA, yes some is still made here but not enough to fund supply a war like WW2 if it was to happen again we would have to use nukes just to give us time to rebuild what has long sense decade, we have no steel mils no ship yards no self supporting manufacturing, it is all overs seas, or shipped in by truck Mex, Can. if they wanted to all one nation would need to do is blockade us, China is the main one... think about it!!!!

Risk evaluation.

I am sure there has been and will be peeps like us that evaluate the cost/benefits curve.

If you do not know what I am talking about, I will provide sources.

Now, let us take a look at the cost/benefit curve which is what we are talking about really.

Cost-700+ military bases 130+ foreign military bases. Thousands of lives lost. Detriment to our national positive or negative popularity so to speak. Look into what Ron Paul has said about this. Blowback. etc etc etc.

Benefit-ability to do business, ability to extract resources (this benefit is arguable), currency control, amongst a few others.

See, this is just the TIP of the things we have to think about. The WHOLE problem though is NOT about our interests, it never has been. There are things that we are not privy to. There are mish mash policies that have NOTHING to do with the interests of the US citizens.

OP, if you would like, you should create a negative and a positive implementation of global and national interests type thread. We could use this one, but there are WAY to many variables.

Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss and cuss my concerns/beliefs in this regard. God Bless and peace. But who's peace?

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by Advantage

 

i beg to differ with you, most of all our the USA computer chips, wire, circuit boards, steel, are made out side the USA, yes some is still made here but not enough to fund supply a war like WW2 if it was to happen again we would have to use nukes just to give us time to rebuild what has long sense decade, we have no steel mils no ship yards no self supporting manufacturing, it is all overs seas, or shipped in by truck Mex, Can. if they wanted to all one nation would need to do is blockade us, China is the main one... think about it!!!!

Why do you see China as a Threat? Dou you see Europe as a Threat too because it hurts Americas Recovery? America destroyes itself,Capitalism destroyes America,Greedy People in America destroy America,the MSM destroyes America.

What did China do to America that you view it as a Threat? Answer that one please.

the USA is just and always has been the cash cow to fund the CIA. The CIA/military will continue to live and prosper as long as their is a USA. you want the CIA to stop, wipe out the US.