Gabrielle Giffords shooting: Frightening, twisted shrine in Arizona killer Jared Lee Loughner's yar

reply to post by FlyersFan


Way to quote one line, offer no arguments and simply state your opinion bluntly yet again. One could almost assume you were a troll.

And how is something "most likely probable"? Either something is probable, or it is not. If something is probable, it is likely (albeit not certainly) true. Saying something is "most likely probable" is like saying something is "most likely, likely true".

So I will reply with; your statement is probably most likely improbable.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It's entirely possible and most likely probable.
Read up on what mass murders do to animals.
How they torture animals before moving on to humans.
It's very, very possible that he did the same.
It's something that an investigative reporter should look into as this case unfolds.

You are confusing serial killers, mass murderers, and this which was a spree killing.
So giving your college paper did not become a book for good reason, I would go with not that probable.

No evidence has been found of any animals being taken, missing, or hurt. Serial killers do that, not mass murderers by nature. Spare me your isolated exceptions, they exist for everything. This was a spree killing at best. He was not Stalin or Dahmer.

My son and I volunteer at our county animal shelter, and I highly doubt that he could have gotten away with just taking animals from the shelter he was volunteering at. Most shelters carefully document the animals they take in upon arrival. Those animals are documented through every step of shelter life and adoption. If he had been taking animals and disposing of them, someone would have noticed. We adopted a dog from the shelter we volunteer at, and the process was quite involved. They don't release an animal to just anyone who comes in. I think he probably volunteered there because, like a lot of loners, he could just relate to animals better than people.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


It is definently an altar with the skull and the plate for burnt offerings positioned on the table. That does not mean that satanists are all dangerous murderers.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by TrueBrit

 

I am well aware of the difference between satan worshippers and occultists and _____ (fill in the blank). For my final paper in college (majored in psychology) I wrote on cults. (for the record .. ALL religions are cults).

No you aren't. If you majored in psychology, then you should realize that animal mutilation is a psychological deal; it has nothing to do with religion or spiritual preference.

And what about animal sacrifice is your problem exactly? I'm sure some posers do commit to animal sacrifice because they believe in the same wrong stereotypes about the occult that you do; it doesn't mean that they enjoy sacrificing animals, and it doesn't mean that they mutilate the animals to achieve a sense of satisfaction like a psychopath might.

You nitpickers are missing the entire point of what I said ... SOME occultists sacrifice animals. Nearly all mass murderers are animal torturers when young. The fact that he was 'volunteering' at an animal shelter where unwanted animals are who wouldn't be missed if they were gone ... THAT is disturbing and has potential to be very bad news.

Torturing animals does not even closely mean the same as sacrificing animals. And really, some occultists sacrifice animals? Which followers do this exactly, especially those living in our modern age?

Being an occultist means you study ancient spiritual knowledge. Sacrificing animals was what occultist did back in the day when they believe that the sun was a god. Anybody who sacrifices animals today are either retarded, psychopathic or have a serious misunderstanding of the occult.

Personally, I find your "FACTS" and connections as incredibly offensive to my own spiritual beliefs and experience. I've studied the occult and modern groups for years and nowhere have I ever seen or heard anything about sacrifices (except in voodoo magic, but that's more along the lines of sorcery).

sara123123-
It is definently an altar with the skull and the plate for burnt offerings positioned on the table. That does not mean that satanists are all dangerous murderers.

I agree completely. It's reported that this guy like his weed. Looks like a typical set up of a stoner to me. See the plate in front of the skull? It doesn't have burnt animal remains sacrificed for the devil in it, those are ashes. And gee, this guy has a little, covered area in his back yard? Considering extreme US laws on marijuana, I don't blame him for the precautions.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Torturing animals does not even closely mean the same as sacrificing animals. And really, some occultists sacrifice animals? Which followers do this exactly, especially those living in our modern age?

Being an occultist means you study ancient spiritual knowledge. Sacrificing animals was what occultist did back in the day when they believe that the sun was a god. Anybody who sacrifices animals today are either retarded, psychopathic or have a serious misunderstanding of the occult.

There have been several supreme and district court cases over the period of the last half-century discussing the legality of animal sacrifice. Some practitioners of Santeria, and similar religions still lawfully carry out animal sacrifices to this day.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Animal sacrifice goes on all the time.. and its protected as a religious right. I was born and raised in NO.. not the tourist BS, but real practitioners of voodoo or similar do this. The Houngan is usually catholic too Santeria sacrifices are also protected federally... something like in 1993 the sup court ruled it was protected. Some jews engage in ritual slaughter... pretty common knowledge. Another thats pretty common knowledge is the ritual slaughter in Islam. All fo this done and protected under the 1st amendment. I dont care if anyone doesnt like it.... then dont follow the religion. I dont.. but I also recognize the right of a person in the US to practice their recognized religion specifically when its federally protected under the 1st amendment. I enjoy the 1st amendment and hope that some dont get their way in picking and choosing who gets to be protected under it.

Im questioning the other posters college paper if she does not know this stuff. Specifically that animal torture and animal sacrifice are two completely different things and 2 completely different motivations.

Here is Jared volunteering at a book day:......... (please dont say he mutilated books as well!!)

azstarnet.com...

This case has really perked my interest. There are too many issues that just dont ring home. For someone so mentally unstable he did alot of voluntary work.

I went to his 1st youtube account (starhitshnaz) to read the comments that were posted BEFORE the shooting. After going through pages of comments by idiots I finally reached the last comment posted 1 day ago on page 208 and on page 209 there are no comments. The page index goes to 222 but no comments????????

www.youtube.com...

I think we are dealing with hidden agendas from the top.

reply to post by Irish Matador


Or someone with intermittent periods of sanity. There are some odd coincidences around the shootings.

Looks like he was in the process of doing some amateur spells prior to his dirty deed. This guy was twisted but that is no alter.

reply to post by Irish Matador



The mentally ill and disabled are capable of volunteering and do often. I do not see any problem with it and its very common. This cant be a factor in what he did.. just as him being a registered Dem cant. He chose to do this. Its on him and him alone for repeatedly pulling a trigger.

To the poster on the previous pages, I doubt this was done by the police. I discarded that idea in the first post. It just doesn't seem plausible with all the media attention that any peacekeeper would have the time or reason to set something like that up. I'm going with pot-smoking den.

Originally posted by Highground

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Torturing animals does not even closely mean the same as sacrificing animals. And really, some occultists sacrifice animals? Which followers do this exactly, especially those living in our modern age?

Being an occultist means you study ancient spiritual knowledge. Sacrificing animals was what occultist did back in the day when they believe that the sun was a god. Anybody who sacrifices animals today are either retarded, psychopathic or have a serious misunderstanding of the occult.

There have been several supreme and district court cases over the period of the last half-century discussing the legality of animal sacrifice. Some practitioners of Santeria, and similar religions still lawfully carry out animal sacrifices to this day.

Religion being the key word here. Religions involve followings, the occult has nothing to do with that. In fact, true occult followers make their own path because the Occult is a spiritual study of information, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING INVOLVED IN ORGANIZED RELIGION.

Religion is a whole different set up. If this guy was into animal sacrifice for religious reasons, then he wouldn't be doing it alone, now would he? Perhaps if people somehow believe in this theory, then they should try to find out if he had religious associates.

Or we could just come to the realization that all of this talk of him committing animal sacrifice stemmed solely from a member claiming that he must be sacrificing animals if he had an altar (which is extremely hyped up by the media) and worked at the SPCA or whatever. Such a ridiculous theory that some people seem to find it credible

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Religion being the key word here. Religions involve followings, the occult has nothing to do with that. In fact, true occult followers make their own path because the Occult is a spiritual study of information, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING INVOLVED IN ORGANIZED RELIGION.

Religion is a whole different set up. If this guy was into animal sacrifice for religious reasons, then he wouldn't be doing it alone, now would he? Perhaps if people somehow believe in this theory, then they should try to find out if he had religious associates.

Or we could just come to the realization that all of this talk of him committing animal sacrifice stemmed solely from a member claiming that he must be sacrificing animals if he had an altar (which is extremely hyped up by the media) and worked at the SPCA or whatever. Such a ridiculous theory that some people seem to find it credible

I agree with what is said here. If you actually meet a true Satanist, the only difference they will explain in life is that while Christians spend their lives judging themselves, Satanists follow their own path as long as it does not infringe on the free will of another.

I have studied many religions over my years, and Satanist was one of the more interesting. The religion is more about enjoying life without infringing on another's. The whole Satan montagé is addmitedly to throw off weak minded individuals.

Satanism and The Bible are in agreeance in most aspects, except that something written by man has real attainable limits and goals for the individual.

Disclaimer : I don't adhere to Satanism, and view it more as helpful philosophy. The impression I get is that the spells and incantations are merely eyecandy, and a way to repel the weak minded. The real meat and potatoes has to do with the self, avoiding psychological vampires, and living a happy and healthy life. Not much you can argue with there.

reply to post by FlyersFan


If you knew anything about such groups, you would know that apart from anything else, when you speak of them, you must be specific, because thier acts and thier motivations differ. If you insist on being inaccurate , why the hell did you pick a subject which revolves around knowing what you are dealing with, and naming it correctly ?
Truth is, if he was a cultist of some sort, you couldnt tell us which cult or old world faith he was a part of. If you arent prepared to pay attention to the detail of a case, you will never get anywhere with it.

Given his antgi-semitic and anti-immigration views the shooter is possibly following an old European witchcraft but not santeria. He may have been nodding towards the occult. Human skulls can be legitimately purchase d in the US so he could of purchased one but would not put it outside as they are expensive to replace.

I feel sure that he was a solitary nut who felt enlightened and way above any occult grouping apart from his solitary one.

Originally posted by tiger5
Given his antgi-semitic and anti-immigration views the shooter is possibly following an old European witchcraft but not santeria. He may have been nodding towards the occult. Human skulls can be legitimately purchase d in the US so he could of purchased one but would not put it outside as they are expensive to replace.

I feel sure that he was a solitary nut who felt enlightened and way above any occult grouping apart from his solitary one.

The skull was a replica. Probably plastic by the looks of it

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Yes I did know that the skull in the picture was plastic. So what was your point? Did you think he was a solitary nut or what. A single line entry does not tell me much at all. so perhaps a expanation is necessary.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
FACT Is .. this guy is into some form of occult or satanism.

Do you have a source for this FACT? Those items look like leftover Halloween decorations to me. Lots of people use skulls as candle holders.

THESE are Satanic Altars.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


There aren't occult religions... Because you say so?

Santeria is considered occult by many people, and yet has thousands (millions?) of followers. The same with Satanism and Voodoo. To say there are no occult religions is nothing but intellectual dishonesty.

I'm not saying he did this because he's practicing any form of religion. I was simply addressing your ignorance of the sacrifice of animals in today's society.