Gabrielle Giffords shooting: Frightening, twisted shrine in Arizona killer Jared Lee Loughner's yar

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by JarredAus
Heard someone ask where got got the gun apparantly he brought it at a sporting shop. Not long ago. dont have a link sorry but it will be everywhere...

I'm not in the US so pardon my ignorance but did he need a permit or did he need to show ID to buy a gun.??

I ask because apparently his teachers notified the police as early as september 2010 that he had issues and was unstable..
One of his teachers had said he wouldn't be surprised if he turned up with a gun.
The police checked him out and searched his home apparently..

I'd find it gross negligence if they didn't attempt to stop him getting a gun, if possible..

This raises two questions, really. The answer is 'yes' he had to submit to a criminal background check, show ID, and in order to carry discreetly in public would require a CC (Concealed Carry) license. Keep in mind that open carry is still permitted, unless there are laws restricting that such as in liquor stores and bars.

The first question is to whether there was an investigation after the teacher's comments.

The second question is whether there was any evidence in such an investigation that should have led to him being banned from buying weapons. We are innocent until proven guilty.

Keep in mind that the shooting of a congressman/woman is extremely rare, unless you count them shooting eachother, and even then it is still rare.

reply to post by FlyersFan


please refer to the sarcasm in my previous post.

Originally posted by backinblack
I'm not in the US so pardon my ignorance but did he need a permit or did he need to show ID to buy a gun.??

Yes. In fact, you also have to pass a federal instant background check. Mental health issues can also be flagged under many circumstances as well.

IMO, this case, as well as the VT shootings a few years ago, shows that there was either gross negligence on the part of the local police for not getting him a mental health exam earlier, or that the ability of the authorities to subject someone to a mental health screening is totally lacking. Whatever the case may be, its clear that this guy didn't just snap without warning. People, including the local police, knew he had major issues going on before this.

Hang on a second!!!!!!

Did that photo and the description of that scene came from the police or from the news folks?

If it came from the police, then no doubt of the authencity.

BUT if it came from the paparazzi, c'mon guys, they would do ANYTHING for a buck, as they had done selling their behinds to TPTB.

That could have been a neighbour's garden, and a few halloween paraphenalia, with a dog's feed plate stashed together and called a shrine to whatever. The skull head certainly looks clean and new considering that its outdoors.

If that's the case, you all 've been had! And the damage done to Jared. Why the need to villify him further when many already saw him pull the trigger? Another Agenda to brainwash the masses AGAIN????

TPTB had how many hours now to 'create' any scene for guilt they want to.

I am sticking to his old youtube vids for better clues,
since those occured BEFORE the shootings, not after. Who knows where and how these pics were taken and by whom, when.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

You poor thing ... How's that self mutalation working for ya?

Not sure what you mean. I have never mutulated myself in my life.

FACT is ... some occult groups and individuals do animal sacrifice.
FACT Is .. this guy is into some form of occult or satanism.
FACT is ... many mass murderers are found to have tortured animals.
FACT is .. this guy 'volunteered' in a place that had an unending supply of unwanted and unaccounted for animals.

As I said before. I was with you all that way. I did not dispute any of those facts.

Common sense ... it's entirely possible and even probable that he was using them on his occult altar.

I was simply pointing to where you went off the rails and included some Christian website as a source on Satanism. FACT: Satanists have strict rules AGAINST killing animals for any reason other than self defense or food. That is a fact. Just trying to keep your FACTS straight for you.

In my opinion, this does not necessarily look like a shrine to me. Unless there is further evidence that it was used for rituals I have have skeptical feelings.

reply to post by FlyersFan



Actually you are right ( I am honest) but for all the wrong reasons. The two areas to consider are Palo Mayombe or Old European Witchcraft ( NOT wicca). Both have skulls in containers. It was hisderanged take on one of these religions or both that I feel is the case.

He may have also thought that he felt it was just cool as all of those goths who wear pentagrams,etc. Who knows what exists in the minds of nutjobs??

reply to post by FlyersFan


If you have paid any attention to the authenticity of your research into the deeply complex world of occultism, you would know that there are some important and yawning gulfs between the behaviour of satanists and devil worshipers.
Satanists in the main are worshipers of the SELF. They do everything according to its use or pleasure to themselves. In terms of occultism, they are the least strange and bizzare of the bunch. Its basicaly a hedonistic belief, centred around pleasuring or benifiting the self.
Now devil worship on the other hand IS full on occult stuff. There are genuinely troubling activities associated with it, including but not limited to animal sacrifice among other things.
Basicaly Satanism is not worship of satan. It is worship of the self. Getting those confused will loose you credibility in your arguments, as it shows a lack of insight on the subject.

reply to post by Sinnthia


I would think that if anyone would recognize Satan it would be Christians whose God is the nemesis of the devil. Besides,anyone who does a little research should be able to find out this stuff.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by backinblack
OMG, way to fill the gaps with twisted assumptions..

OMG, way to stick your head in the sand.

It's a FACT that SOME occult groups sacrifice animals.
It's a FACT that many mass murderers tortured animals as a child.
It's a FACT that this guy is a freak'n loon.

Satanism: The World of the Occult
Some signs of satanism -

A drop in grades; Burglary; Drug use; Physical and sexual abuse; Mind control ; Animal mutilation; Murder; Suicide

Markings of Satanism -

Goathead; Inverted cross. Skull, Pentagram; Baphomet; MENA (amen); Black rose; Swastika

Let's see ... drop in grades = check. Drug use = check. Murder = check. Skull = check.
Throw in the occult altar and the unending supply of unwanted and unaccounted for animals at the
shelter that the 'volunteered' at .... Put it all together ... it's VERY possible and even probable.

Pagan Institute Report - Animal Sacrifice
Animal sacrifice in Satanism
Animal sacricices in NY Parks
Ban on Animal Sacrifice an 'affront to faith' say pagan religious leaders
Pganspace.net - Animal sacrifice in modern times
Satanic Bible .. Animal Sacrifice
Satanic Ritual and Satanic Majick - Animal Sacrifice
Unsolved Mysteries - unending battle against animal sacrifices

Christians and catholics have killed more people than "satanist".

Pentagram is the planet Venus and not the devil. Lucifer = Venus

so a few oranges got sacrificed into a planter box adorned by a plastic skull, doesn't make it a shrine to anything in that reguard .
being a rampaging fruitcake himself doesn't necessarily mean that he was a devil worshipping, animal sacrificing satanist drawing off other worldly powers through some leftover rotten fruit bowl found beside a backyard garden area.

it just looks like a pile of random crap to me.

like when you sweep or vacuum a floor, and you pick up everything and temporarily set it somewhere else....thats what it looks like to me.

Oh god, another thing for the news media to spend days talking about. WHY COULDN'T IT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING ACTUALLY NEWSWORTHY (so they wouldn't put it on)!!!?? DAMN IT!

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by wcitizen
To call this a 'shrine' is to push things beyond the credible. Even so, the image of a skull is promoted in all the (zionist controlled) MSM - in films, advertisement, pop culture, etc. Even the former president and many of his cronies belonged to the skull and cross bones society.

I'm with you, but when you post the news you have to use the title of the actual article. If anything, I would call this leftover halloween decoration at best.

Hype Media is on a war footing against our civil liberties, riding on the back of this tragedy. I think that when someone says tragedy, and offers a solution, they should be heavily scrutinized at this time.

Yes, I was referring to the article itself - it wasn't in any way a reflection of the thread title. Sometimes using the title of the article seems to play right into the hands of the misleading and sensational headlines used.

I agree with you - tragedy, hype, solution is a known strategy and we must be vigilant, as you say, especially when the 'solutions' follow so quickly from the event - as though they had been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the opportunity to roll them out!

reply to post by vor78

IMO, this case, as well as the VT shootings a few years ago, shows that there was either gross negligence on the part of the local police for not getting him a mental health exam earlier, or that the ability of the authorities to subject someone to a mental health screening is totally lacking. Whatever the case may be, its clear that this guy didn't just snap without warning. People, including the local police, knew he had major issues going on before this.

Unfortunately laws were passed in the USA to keep the mentally ill out of hospitals and tied the hands of police. This means we now have cities full of mentally unstable street people instead. That statement is based on observation. A good friend of ours worked with the Street People in the city of Boston and when we lived there we sometimes helped too.

Mental healthcare experienced a revolution at the mid-point of the twentieth century with the availability of the first anti-psychotic medications. For the first time, schizophrenic patients could experience partial symptom relief rather than simply being restrained or tranquilized. In this heady environment, a social movement came into being with the goal of deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill. This movement found expression in critical state and federal supreme court decisions supporting patient rights. Numerous state hospitals were shut down as a result, and previously institutionalized patients were released to live in society...

Only the most severely disabled patients are maintained in state institutions anymore.

...This would be a happy note to end on save for the fact that the initially adequate funding for the CMHCs has eroded over the years to the point where many struggle to simply provide minimal critical services. The noble goals of deinstitutionalization have been largely accomplished, but the follow through has not been well supported... [An understatement if ever there was one!]
www.mentalhelp.net...

1974

Halderman v. Pennhurst, filed in Pennsylvania on behalf of the residents of the Pennhurst State School and Hospital highlighted conditions at state schools for people with mental retardation. It became a precedent in the battle for deinstitutionalization, establishing a right to community services for people with developmental disabilities. isc.temple.edu...

If you look at this CHART you can see the results of "deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill" among other changes in US laws and culture.

The US has the highest imprisonment rate - 748 per 100,000 people. That is 7,225,800
people or 1 in every 32 adults or 1 in 18 males! Before 1970 the number was below 500,000 or only 6% of the number now in prison. Wiki

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

You poor thing ... How's that self mutalation working for ya?

FACT is ... some occult groups and individuals do animal sacrifice.
FACT Is .. this guy is into some form of occult or satanism.
FACT is ... many mass murderers are found to have tortured animals.
FACT is .. this guy 'volunteered' in a place that had an unending supply of unwanted and unaccounted for animals.

Common sense ... it's entirely possible and even probable that he was using them on his occult altar.

FACT is that stating facts as such gives the impression of a TV-Shop salesman.
FACT is that apparently some ATS-posters have been involved in crimes such as this. Would your "common sense" indicate that all posters are murderers?

Unless there's evidence that he actually snatched some poor animals from the shelter (which would be very easily checked) and sacrificed them by his [seemingly blood-free] "altar", it's not even remotely probable that he did as you claim.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
that article says he volunteered at an animal shelter!!!

that must mean all vets are killers!!!!

pet lovers too!!! all murderers!

Hitler loved dogs.

People not so much.

reply to post by TrueBrit

I am well aware of the difference between satan worshippers and occultists and _____ (fill in the blank). For my final paper in college (majored in psychology) I wrote on cults. (for the record .. ALL religions are cults).

You nitpickers are missing the entire point of what I said ... SOME occultists sacrifice animals. Nearly all mass murderers are animal torturers when young. The fact that he was 'volunteering' at an animal shelter where unwanted animals are who wouldn't be missed if they were gone ... THAT is disturbing and has potential to be very bad news.

Originally posted by aboveGoos
it's not even remotely probable that he did as you claim.

It's entirely possible and most likely probable.
Read up on what mass murders do to animals.
How they torture animals before moving on to humans.
It's very, very possible that he did the same.
It's something that an investigative reporter should look into as this case unfolds.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You nitpickers are missing the entire point of what I said

Got your point. Was just pointing out that your "point" lost all of its momentum when you added lies about Satanism and offered the most biased source you could find. Stick to your point and facts and you really have something. Using it to spread lies about Satanists is dirty pool.