An Opinion on Area 51 Underground

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posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by VeritatisIgnotae
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


I was going to respond to him about all the holes in his rant on my comment, but felt it was a waste of time. But seeing as how you did, i will to. High school physics had taught me that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light without being turned directly into energy. www.nytimes.com... but i guess i should just disregard this new edvience. lol


Bob Lazar goes into great detail with this. Not sure everything he says is correct or that I remember correctly, but the basic premise of achieving ftl speed is to create artificial gravity so that you can shrink space ahead of you while the craft is protected by a bubble.

I love science fiction. Too bad I did not watch more of it when I was young. Too many responsibilities as an adult in this sick world leaves less time for fun. lol

Teleportation, telekinesis, remote viewing, etc The possibilities seem almost endless. Much of the stuff we are discovering today was probably handed down either by extra-terrestrials or lost civilizations from atlantis and lemuria.
edit on 11/9/12 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


News Flash: you can patent stuff that doesn't work. It happens all the time. You do not have to build a working model of your device to get a patent. Your patent can be completely absurd.
www.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false

My comment about foreign engineers is that they at least have learned physics in high school, as opposed to whatever twits we are graduating in the US, at least based on posts found on ATS.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


This video is just a compilation of internet crap. Call me crazy, but I can't take someone very seriously that doesn't know that "I" needs to be capitalized. I would accuse this asshat of being part of the broken shift key crowed, but he/she did managed to capitalize the first letter of each sentence.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


You don't read much science news, do you? There was a GPS error that lead to the faster than the speed of light measurements. Geez!
news.sciencemag.org...
Need any more nonsense debunked?

Lazar goes into great detail, but unfortunately, it isn't scientific detail.



posted on Sep, 11 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


You don't read much science news, do you? There was a GPS error that lead to the faster than the speed of light measurements. Geez!
news.sciencemag.org...
Need any more nonsense debunked?

Lazar goes into great detail, but unfortunately, it isn't scientific detail.


What does CERN have to do with what bob lazar said


You really believe anything unclassified is worth the paper it is written on


Even top secret stuff is worthless. You have to go to umbra or higher and *eyes only*.
edit on 11/9/12 by EarthCitizen07 because: edit content



posted on Sep, 12 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


The CERN link was to disprove this post:
www.nytimes.com...

I, like every USA OGAs, believe in OSINT. Ignore OSINT at your peril.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


News Flash: you can patent stuff that doesn't work. It happens all the time. You do not have to build a working model of your device to get a patent. Your patent can be completely absurd.
www.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false


Not really. If it was that easy then almost anyone could register a patent. Secondely LANL is perhaps the most serious government research facility in the world and it would be silly of them to make a patent that they had no intentions of ever using.

It kind of sucks everyone is using 100 year old outdated technology because the illuminati wants to keep its DUMBs secret, doesn't it? If they revealed you could make a 15 mile tunnel in just one day everyone would be awestruck and the conspiracy theorists vindicated.



My comment about foreign engineers is that they at least have learned physics in high school, as opposed to whatever twits we are graduating in the US, at least based on posts found on ATS.


It would be nice if you could spare us your condescending drivel whenever you disagree with people.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


News Flash: you can patent stuff that doesn't work. It happens all the time. You do not have to build a working model of your device to get a patent. Your patent can be completely absurd.
www.google.com...=onepage&q&f=false


Not really. If it was that easy then almost anyone could register a patent. Secondely LANL is perhaps the most serious government research facility in the world and it would be silly of them to make a patent that they had no intentions of ever using.

It kind of sucks everyone is using 100 year old outdated technology because the illuminati wants to keep its DUMBs secret, doesn't it? If they revealed you could make a 15 mile tunnel in just one day everyone would be awestruck and the conspiracy theorists vindicated.



My comment about foreign engineers is that they at least have learned physics in high school, as opposed to whatever twits we are graduating in the US, at least based on posts found on ATS.


It would be nice if you could spare us your condescending drivel whenever you disagree with people.


Well, actually ... just about anyone CAN patent something. The process allows for absurdity. A patent is "any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof" (as defined by the US code). A patent protects the design and/or idea of the invention, not the physical invention itself.

Come up with an idea, put it on paper, follow the rules and regs set forth by the USPTO, and you can patent something. Provided that it is something that can be patented, and that nobody has done it before you.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Let me state this clearly as possible: You do not have to present a working model of the device/process/concept you are patenting.

Garbage patents are granted all the time. In engineering, at least in the physical sciences, there is the back of the envelope test: Does the concept violate any laws of physics? Conservation of mass, conservation of energy, causality, etc.

I can dig up patents that don't work all day.
www.google.com...

Now back to your nuclear tunneling machine nonsense. You simply don't go willy nilly tunneling without studying the soil. Not all soil will support a tunnel. To create these nationwide tunnels would be a civil engineering study beyond what was ever done in the history of the world. Boreholes upon boreholes. Yet nobody noticed this? And your nonsense about spewing the vaporize rock out a vent. I guess nobody noticed the glazed rock distributed along easily discernible paths. Remember, you need to use science here. Matter is not destroyed.

What you find condescending is merely my virtual slap on the head of dolts that accept such internet nonsense without applying any scientific analysis. Hey, your mileage may vary.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Ah but you don't understand these tunneling machines

They are nuclear powered and can dig so deep that they will be boring through bedrock. Don't worry about inconsistent soil and sandy patches. See it leaves a thin shell of glazed rock lining the tunnel walls. That will be enough to hold back the millions of metric tons of soil and rock. I should know I used to be one of the lead engineers for the galactic federation on venus. Glass tunnels on Mars? That was me Biatch! I built those! Glass covered cites on the moon that was in the apollo shots in the background...me too. So I feel qualified in stating that these drilling machines are not just super secret they are one step higher...duper secret. See it's all alien technology behind the machines. How do you think we were able to build super straight tunnels for thousands of miles underground without bore holes to survey our tunnels status before the advent of GPS?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by gariac

Now back to your nuclear tunneling machine nonsense. You simply don't go willy nilly tunneling without studying the soil. Not all soil will support a tunnel. To create these nationwide tunnels would be a civil engineering study beyond what was ever done in the history of the world. Boreholes upon boreholes. Yet nobody noticed this? And your nonsense about spewing the vaporize rock out a vent. I guess nobody noticed the glazed rock distributed along easily discernible paths. Remember, you need to use science here. Matter is not destroyed.


When something melts, including bedrock, it changes its state from a solid to a liquid and thus its volume and density change as well. In this case the volume and density go way down. I don't see a need to transport huge amounts of material to an offsite location.


What you find condescending is merely my virtual slap on the head of dolts that accept such internet nonsense without applying any scientific analysis. Hey, your mileage may vary.


I apply a reasonable amount of scientific analysis based on what I already know. You on the other hand pretend to be an expert without sharing any of your credentials. We have to take your word on everything.

You keep thinking the technology on the surface must be equal to the technology that is highely classified. If this was the case then obviously there would little if any reason to keep anything classified. Can I prove project subterrene is real? Not easily, but on the otherhand you cannot prove a negative either.......so I guess we are on equal standing.

I find it impossible to dismiss all the whistleblowers, and they are plenty, as either dellusional idiots or con-artists to make a buck. At some point, when evidence continues to accumulate, you have to give these people the benefit of doubt.

I would rather trust people who are scorned for their far fetched theories than a government that lies, lies, lies, lies and then lies some more. Seriously the people who trust proven liars are the ones that should see a shrink and see one fast.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by gariac

Now back to your nuclear tunneling machine nonsense. You simply don't go willy nilly tunneling without studying the soil. Not all soil will support a tunnel. To create these nationwide tunnels would be a civil engineering study beyond what was ever done in the history of the world. Boreholes upon boreholes. Yet nobody noticed this? And your nonsense about spewing the vaporize rock out a vent. I guess nobody noticed the glazed rock distributed along easily discernible paths. Remember, you need to use science here. Matter is not destroyed.


When something melts, including bedrock, it changes its state from a solid to a liquid and thus its volume and density change as well. In this case the volume and density go way down. I don't see a need to transport huge amounts of material to an offsite location.


What you find condescending is merely my virtual slap on the head of dolts that accept such internet nonsense without applying any scientific analysis. Hey, your mileage may vary.


I apply a reasonable amount of scientific analysis based on what I already know. You on the other hand pretend to be an expert without sharing any of your credentials. We have to take your word on everything.

You keep thinking the technology on the surface must be equal to the technology that is highely classified. If this was the case then obviously there would little if any reason to keep anything classified. Can I prove project subterrene is real? Not easily, but on the otherhand you cannot prove a negative either.......so I guess we are on equal standing.

I find it impossible to dismiss all the whistleblowers, and they are plenty, as either dellusional idiots or con-artists to make a buck. At some point, when evidence continues to accumulate, you have to give these people the benefit of doubt.

I would rather trust people who are scorned for their far fetched theories than a government that lies, lies, lies, lies and then lies some more. Seriously the people who trust proven liars are the ones that should see a shrink and see one fast.


Again, we come to this point in a debate - the burden of proof is on you to prove what you are saying is true, not for the rest of us to prove what you are saying is false.

The theory of things like nuclear-powered tunnelling machines is pretty cool. But even if it was tried, I'd say it was about as successful as the last attempt at a nuclear powered aircraft, the remains of which sit about 200 miles east of me in a hangar on the INEEL.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Again, we come to this point in a debate - the burden of proof is on you to prove what you are saying is true, not for the rest of us to prove what you are saying is false.


Proof is the subjective acceptance of evidence. There is no such thing as "absolute proof" in theory. People who came here with the bias that such theories are too far fetched to be true will likely never accept any volume or quality of evidence as proof.

They are called disbelievers, perpetual skeptics, debunkers, etc. All I can do is provide evidence and I did that.


The theory of things like nuclear-powered tunnelling machines is pretty cool. But even if it was tried, I'd say it was about as successful as the last attempt at a nuclear powered aircraft, the remains of which sit about 200 miles east of me in a hangar on the INEEL.


What about nuclear powered submarines and nuclear powered aircraft carriers? Are they fake too?



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by flyswatter

Again, we come to this point in a debate - the burden of proof is on you to prove what you are saying is true, not for the rest of us to prove what you are saying is false.


Proof is the subjective acceptance of evidence. There is no such thing as "absolute proof" in theory. People who came here with the bias that such theories are too far fetched to be true will likely never accept any volume or quality of evidence as proof.

They are called disbelievers, perpetual skeptics, debunkers, etc. All I can do is provide evidence and I did that.


The theory of things like nuclear-powered tunnelling machines is pretty cool. But even if it was tried, I'd say it was about as successful as the last attempt at a nuclear powered aircraft, the remains of which sit about 200 miles east of me in a hangar on the INEEL.


What about nuclear powered submarines and nuclear powered aircraft carriers? Are they fake too?


Nay, I only brought up one verifiable nuclear-powered failure in the plane. There may be others, but luckily the submarines and aircraft carriers are not among them. The plane still exists. Doesnt fly, but it exists!


And while it is true that I am a skeptic, I am not unswayable by any means. The problem is that there is no tangible evidence of something like a nuclear-powered borer, and coupled with the theories of how the leftover material is dealt with, it is highly unlikely that this sort of thing is possible at this time. I will not say completely impossible, but I wont hold my breath on this one

edit on 14-9-2012 by flyswatter because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 


Everything is based around the principle of nuclear reactors. Electricity, submarine propulsion, aircraft carrier propulsion and perhaps even a TBM. Once you can get the nuclear reactor to work properly and make it small enough where it can be used virtually anywhere, there are no limits.

The only reason they are keeping the nuclear tbm secret is because doing so would reveal the presence of DUMBS! Again I cannot prove anything. It is my speculation. Trust me I would rather it all be false, knowing the middle east will erupt one day and china/russia will launch nukes to the usa and vice versa. The people living underground will make out just fine while billions get poisoned with radioactive material, especially gamma rays.

And yes I think alien technology is being traded between humans and the elite. To bad that technology may never get revealed or get revealed after a long time.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by flyswatter
 


Everything is based around the principle of nuclear reactors. Electricity, submarine propulsion, aircraft carrier propulsion and perhaps even a TBM. Once you can get the nuclear reactor to work properly and make it small enough where it can be used virtually anywhere, there are no limits.

The only reason they are keeping the nuclear tbm secret is because doing so would reveal the presence of DUMBS! Again I cannot prove anything. It is my speculation. Trust me I would rather it all be false, knowing the middle east will erupt one day and china/russia will launch nukes to the usa and vice versa. The people living underground will make out just fine while billions get poisoned with radioactive material, especially gamma rays.

And yes I think alien technology is being traded between humans and the elite. To bad that technology may never get revealed or get revealed after a long time.


As long as you do recognize that you cannot prove any of this and that it really is just speculation on your part (which you have done here, thank you), I have no reason to complain at all. I may disagree with you, but opinion is opinion - it isnt wrong, its just different.



posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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What about nuclear powered submarines and nuclear powered aircraft carriers? Are they fake too?
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


You need to take a class in thermodynamics. Nuclear power is just a way to generate heat. For submarines and carriers, the heat is used to boil water. Yes, reality check here. Most nuclear energy is used to boil water. You get a phase change (water turns into steam), and the expansion lets you move something, typically a motor then a generator. Due to the effects of radiation, namely turning metal brittle, a heat exchanger is required. This lowers the efficiency, but it is needed for safety and durability. The other way to convert the heat to electric power is to use a thermopile. That is how it is done in nuclear powered space systems. In this case, just to power the electronics.If you ever messed with an old gas furnace, a thermopile is how the safety relay was kept energized. Hardware stores have thermopiles for replacement.

You seem to have conveniently forgotten or perhaps never knew about Project Pluto or NERVA. NERVA was over a decade of wasted time and money. They spent less time on Project Pluto, but it also was a total fiasco. It seems nuclear power is really hard to apply to anything other than boiling water or thermopiles.

Of course, don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasies.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by gariac



What about nuclear powered submarines and nuclear powered aircraft carriers? Are they fake too?
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


You need to take a class in thermodynamics. Nuclear power is just a way to generate heat. For submarines and carriers, the heat is used to boil water. Yes, reality check here. Most nuclear energy is used to boil water. You get a phase change (water turns into steam), and the expansion lets you move something, typically a motor then a generator. Due to the effects of radiation, namely turning metal brittle, a heat exchanger is required. This lowers the efficiency, but it is needed for safety and durability. The other way to convert the heat to electric power is to use a thermopile. That is how it is done in nuclear powered space systems. In this case, just to power the electronics.If you ever messed with an old gas furnace, a thermopile is how the safety relay was kept energized. Hardware stores have thermopiles for replacement.


The purpose of a nuclear tbm would be NOT to produce electricity nor to turn a propeller shaft. Its purpose is to melt rock using the enormous heat exchange created from the reactor. You don't have to be a nuclear engineer to understand very basic theories.


You seem to have conveniently forgotten or perhaps never knew about Project Pluto or NERVA. NERVA was over a decade of wasted time and money. They spent less time on Project Pluto, but it also was a total fiasco. It seems nuclear power is really hard to apply to anything other than boiling water or thermopiles.

Of course, don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasies.


Are you talking about space flight using nuclear propulsion or what? How the hell is this rellevant to nuclear tbms? Sure anything can run on nuclear energy with the proper nuclear reactor installed but from application to application the issues and demands vary.

And I would not be suprised if the failure was deliberate so that it could reach black project status. Everyone knows NASA is a front for space exploration. The real space program is run by the air force and private initiatives.



posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


I met a former worker on Project Pluto. Trust me, it was #canned.

I simply point out that when you try to do much beyond boiling water or a thermopile with nuclear energy, the project fails. It is not as simple as it sounds.

In the case of your fictitious rock melter, they would have to up the operating temperature from the present day 250 to 300 deg C to over 1000 deg C. Nobody is there in production and barely there in research TODAY. Further, this would have to be the temperature after the exchanger, which means the core would be much hotter to compensate for efficiency loss.

From a material science standpoint, this is basically impossible since the material has to be ready for anything, including corrosive minerals.

Funny how you keep ignoring the conservation of mass problem with this fictitious rock melter.





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