I searched quite heavily regarding this subject on ATS and found the original apparent debunking by FredT of John Lear's hypothesis. ->
Original Thread by FredT
Aside from giving us some really sensational information on a wine tour and some basic history of the base I don't really see many points arguing the
For starters, you assume workings would entail the surrounding hills and mountain ranges and not into the visible bedrock itself. This is how normal
mining operations would be conducted, and you have admitted that anything nefarious going on at Groom Lake would be kept "black" so I'm not sure how
you can formulate an opinion on something that even to exist would be denoted.
It's still personal conjecture that anything underground at Groom Lake would exist. So beyond taking our beliefs at face value or taking another
persons word for it, we will probably never know what truly exists there. All we can do is speculate. In my opinion this kind of speculation is a
healthy way to form constructive and critical conversations between peers with the understanding that we are all working towards an end goal.
This is purely an opinion and statement, somewhat of an open letter to John Lear and a thank you to him for continuing this pursuit of the truth. I
cannot concede to agree with all the theories presented by him, but as I said thought provocation in any sense is a good thing.
I have a background in Civil Construction, Underground Infrastructure, Western Archaeology, Anthropology and Sociology among others.
All I have tried to do is take in any relevant information and share an opinion or two.
The term “conspiracy theory” is therefore often used dismissively in an attempt to characterize a belief as outlandishly false and held by a
person judged to be a crank or a group confined to the lunatic fringe. Such characterization is often the subject of dispute due to its possible
unfairness and inaccuracy. - Wikipedia
The principle of Occam's Razor is often incorrectly summarized as "the simplest explanation is more likely the correct one". This summary is
misleading, however, since the principle is actually focused on shifting the burden of proof in discussions. That is, the Razor is a principle that
suggests we should tend towards simpler theories until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power. - Wikipedia
First of all, I'm not referring to D.U.M.B (Deep Underground Military Bases) in this post, instead I am referring to underground infrastructure in
general. Some people purport Groom Lake to be some kind of "tip of the iceberg" sort of installation, that what is seen above ground is a mere
fraction of what is contained below.
I don't believe these theories, but I do believe that there would be a need for some kind of critical infrastructure to be available to the site. The
site has it's own Sewerage Treatment and Desalination capabilities and would involve underground pipes to transport waste.
I believe that considering the base was worked on heavily as early as 1950 and with political and international pressures at the time and decades to
come (Cold War) would have assuredly afforded some form of critical protection for the 1,000+ workers to inhabit the site. This would have also
undertaken large scale works.
Researching numerous books and websites for references to mining, I can understand the need for a wheel house/lift house for housing the gearing
required for an elevator shaft. Numerous buildings around the Groom Lake site could easily house such a thing, although the height of a wheel house
is often designated by the depth of the mine itself.
I can offer a brief description of an example.
The building circled in green references the header or shaft of the mine, everything else in the photo is irrelevant as it is used in Mining and not
Infrastructure Construction. As stated previously i realize the elevator house is a very tall structure, but this is only indicative of the depth of
the level required to reach.
Those pictures reference the Tau Tona gold mine near Johannesburg, South Africa. It is currently the deepest known point on earth where man can
venture safely, and was constructed over an approximate time span of 65 years. At its deepest point, the mine reaches 3.9km vertical (2.4 miles)
underground, waste and spoil is shipped by train, ship and truck.
This is an example of the extreme kind, it shows that a massive mining operation can be undertaken whilst still providing a somewhat small
Another example I would like to point out is the Greenbrier (Project Greek Island).
The Greenbrier is a Mobil four star and AAA Five Diamond Award winning luxury resort located just outside the town of White Sulphur Springs in
Greenbrier County, West Virginia, United States. - Wikipedia
In the late 1950s, the United States government approached The Greenbrier for assistance in creating a secret emergency relocation center to house
Congress in the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust. The classified, underground facility was built at the same time as the West Virginia Wing, an
above-ground addition to the hotel, from 1959 to 1962. For 30 years, The Greenbrier owners maintained an agreement with the federal government that,
in the event of an international crisis, the entire resort property would be conveyed to government use, specifically as the emergency location for
the legislative branch.
Although the bunker was kept stocked with supplies for 30 years, it was never actually used as an emergency location, even during the Cuban Missile
Crisis. The bunker's existence was not acknowledged until The Washington Post revealed it in a 1992 story; immediately after the Post story, the
government decommissioned the bunker. - Wikipedia
Something far more interesting..
The project used a cut-and-cover style construction method for the creation of the bunker, where material, known as spoil, is removed from the surface
and carried away from the site to create a space in which the bunker is constructed. In the case of the Project Greek Island Bunker, the spoil was
used in the expansion of a 9-hole golf course and as fill material in a runway extension project at the local municipal airfield. This prevented
detection of the project. The Government used the West Virginia Wing construction of the hotel as a cover-up for the shelter. The shelter was made to
house over 1,000 people, including members of Congress. A huge vault door was placed in the shelter created so that one person could shut the massive
This suggestion had me thinking about a recent Telescopic Photograph of the Groom Lake site.
For pavement designs, borings are taken to determine the subgrade condition, and based on the relative bearing capacity of the subgrade, the
specifications are established. For heavy-duty commercial aircraft, the pavement thickness, no matter what the top surface, varies from 10 in (250 mm)
to 4 ft (1 m), including subgrade. - Wikipedia
Credit to Dreamlandresort.com for the usage opportunity.
This area is at the far Westerly end of the range and has been designated a quarry/concrete plant.
I am merely suggesting that as has been explained previously and documented many times over that I can understand the need for concrete and varying
grades of gravels etc for construction of buildings, roads, runways and other infrastructure due to the location of the site. However, the
requirements for bedding for huge runways would easily exceed that of the current abilities of the "quarry site" pictured here.
All I am saying is that the construction of underground infrastructure would easily go hand in hand with building and servicing runways, roads, etc.
More to the point, spoil could even be spread on a larger scale instead of mounds making it less visible to satellite and telescopic photography. I
believe the site would have to have their own earth moving equipment, and I just wonder how easily they could conduct secretive construction without
Everything required for secretive construction here is available, equipment, man power, location, energy, and money. In the argument against, all I
seem to have indicated to me is that it would not be "feasible" to construct underground here, and not much more beyond personal conjecture.
The Greenbrier example was a massive undertaking of underground construction conducted at the height of the Cold War and in the midst of tourists and
locals without anyone knowing better.
If they don't want you to know, you never will. I would rather speculate and create discussion points rather than use less credible sources and
evidence to support my theories.
Just in case you thought I wasn't going to reply in full, I will also list points and argue them individually.
1) You leave nearly decade long gaps in your assumption of Soviet era and USGS satellite photography which can leave quite a lot to the imagination.
Considering during these periods multi million dollar aircraft were being tested here, there wasn't an instance for someone to dig a hole in the
2) I would look further West to the site to the possibility of wheel houses/elevator shafts considering it seems logical that any underground workings
would more than likely entail the usage of the "quarry plant". I nor anyone else that I have come across can say with any great certainty what
hangars at Groom Lake contain, to speculate otherwise would be misinformation in my opinion.
3) I can indicate numerous points where power lines run into and out of the Groom Lake site, I would also suggest the site would have redundant power
systems comprising of diesel generators which can be easily hidden when operating. - See below for example (Credit Dreamlandresort.com)
In the end it comes down to personal opinion and fact over fiction, the fact is we as a civilization are capable of dramatic constructional feats as
tiny as a micron, or larger than some countries. I cannot comprehend that some kind of operational underground infrastructure doesn't exist at Groom
Lake and other installations. I'm not suggesting it's some kind of technological mecca or super city, underground. But to try and disregard the idea
completely also is hard for me to accept. As I said earlier, i enjoy sparking the imagination of people and I guess we may never know what is beyond
the great unknown until we are meant to and as a result, informative, respectful discussions cannot be denied.
edit on 10-1-2011 by plexus because: additional information added
edit on 10-1-2011 by plexus because: additional