Is Gabrielle Giffords shooting the latest 9/11?

Fellow ATS members,

Perhaps I am overly sensitized to such news events. Cynicism and skepticism run the show here on ATS and that has carried into my personal insights on current events. On hearing the reports of the shootings this weekend, the first thing that came to mind was that the timing of this was too precise. My second thought was that the shooter was described as silent and detached amidst the turmoil and carnage. My cynicism and skepticism was well fed by the news reports. My mind jumped to conclusions and it was rewarded richly and immediately by the information being disseminated by the media. To me this incident seems scripted from numerous angles.

No matter what your take on what and who were behind the 9/11 events, you would have to admit that reaction to those events shaped the course of recent world history. I think this tragic incident will also have far reaching influence perhaps not on a world scale but surely on a national one. To me this assassination seemed blatantly linked to the swearing in of the One Hundred Twelfth United States Congress just days prior.

It has been reported ad infinitum in the media that the newly elected representatives would work toward a voter mandated, austere conservative agenda and against the president's socialist programs. In my opinion the president has seemed unconcerned by this. To me he has reacted as if on Hawaiian holiday since the November election. I don't think he knew how the new congress would be derailed but I do think that he knew it would.

Following 9/11, the country was led down various paths on the premise that both sides of the political aisle needed to work together for the protection and good of the nation. I see this shooting as an excellent excuse to derail a number of conservative mandates. Border and right to carry issues are already being tied to this in the media.

The Washington Post: Jared Loughner's college instructor: I was worried he might have a gun in class

AZcentral.com: Arizona Congresswoman Giffords shot; doctors 'optimistic' about recovery chances

The following from the azcentral.com report:

In November, Giffords a moderate Democrat, won re-election to her third 2-year term, narrowly escaping defeat to Republican businessman Jesse Kelly in a contentious race that centered largely on the issue of illegal immigration and border security, two hot button issues in southern Arizona.

Although immigration and border security played a role in every major race in the state, the debate was especially fierce in the 8th Congressional District. The District includes a 114-mile stretch of the U.S. border with Mexico.

During the campaign, Giffords touted her efforts to push the Obama administration to deploy National Guard troops to the border and for playing an instrumental role in securing $600 million in funding to add more technology and Border Patrol agents. - azcentral.com

reply to post by Hemisphere


My initial impression was that the shooter was "triggered" externally to do this. I am not up on all of the mind control techniques and related conspiracies but that was my instinctual reaction. The description of a woman shouting at the shooter on the ground and him seemingly having no reaction reminded me of a similar description of Chapman after the John Lennon assassination.

I see this incident being used to derail any move toward more conservative and smaller government. I predict that the new conservative congress will be called upon to compromise with the president for the greater good. This will be reminiscent of the calls for bipartisan action following 9/11 and the journey into Iraq.

Those are my impressions. What did you see?

reply to post by Hemisphere


10 peoples killed .. we cant compare that to 3000 people killed

Originally posted by Ben81
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

10 peoples killed .. we cant compare that to 3000 people killed

Why not? I see every life lost as tragic.

Secondly, would the loss of 10 lives pushed the country into a war or wars? I think not. I think the scope of these tragedies was dictated by the needs of the hidden agendas. Just my take.

Thats the first thing that popped in my head too. MKULTRA.
Then I sat back and though rationally about it, and still thought it was a possibility. Just goes to show you what reading too much on this site can do to ones perspectives.
Curious to know if he has any ties with CIA operatives. If he was overseas/ or had unexplained disappearances recently.
Then again, it could just be that he became sick by his own thoughts and beliefs and thought that the only way people would listen to him was to become an assassin.
Also, normally people that go on shooting rampages end it with a bullet through their own head. I guess he's not afraid of public perception.
Then again, maybe he was thinking something different. I guess time might tell.

Originally posted by DIDtm
Thats the first thing that popped in my head too. MKULTRA.
Then I sat back and though rationally about it, and still thought it was a possibility. Just goes to show you what reading too much on this site can do to ones perspectives.
Curious to know if he has any ties with CIA operatives. If he was overseas/ or had unexplained disappearances recently.

Yeah, that's exactly the stuff I was referring too.

I saw one of the photos of this Jared Loughner and it brought to mind a scrap of information I had read about another assassin. Again, I think it was Chapman. Something about Chapman working with a Church group overseas. I got the mental image at that time of Chapman wearing a name tag. The overall impression I got was of a person wanting to lead but not having any clout and needing a means to establish an identity. Something along the lines of being a grammar school hall monitor. Then of course I saw the photo of Loughner with his name tag. You know, "Hi, my name is.....

Here's the photo:

Of course lots of people wear these tags for identification purposes. My impression is that Loughner was being ignored and that this innocent name tag was just one among many demands for attention. Perhaps the photo is from much earlier on and prior to when Loughner was acting out in college classes and such. A precursor of what was to come. Just my impression.

Well, I would agree on one point.

9/11 and this has been used to attack political opposition.

Very interesting article related to the psychology and paranoia of using crisis' for political gain.

FASCIST PIGS, FANATICAL IDEOLOGUES, AND DELUSIONAL ILLNESS

One of the more interesting emails I received yesterday after the unfolding of the attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords and the murder of others, including a Federal judge in Arizona, was the following:

"This is what comes of spewing hate, you fascist pig!"

I find it interesting primarily because it encapsulates in an enlightening way the leftist mindset which has been described in the last several posts on Dr. Sanity.

I have not met or examined the individual who is in custody for this horrific attack. But I have read quite a bit of information about him now. Making a reasonable clinical determination (which will be impacted obviously by forthcoming information also); and based on his own writings and behaviors that were described prior to this incident, my best assessment is that Jared Loughner was likely suffering from paranoid schizophrenia.

Also relevant to what you put forth here-


THE POLITICAL PARANOIA OF THE LEFT - Parts I and II

In the 60's the liberal left and the Democratic Party became the champions of civil rights --a cause with which they were NOT historically associated, actually; but events of the time conspired to make them the standard-bearers of racial equality--an unaddressed social issue in this country that plagued and highlighted some of the hypocrisy in its high-minded and lofty values from the very beginning. It was definitely time to make the American promise that so clearly burned in the minds of the Founding Fathers real for all Americans.

Championing this cause was so successful for the Democrats as a political party, that they quite naturally took up the causes of other identified "victim" groups (women, the disabled; homosexuals, etc.); successfully leveraging their heroic stand on civil rights as proof of their concern for the oppressed and "the little guy".

also something interesting to note from the article-

The President simply acted on facts that were accepted at the time (even by the people now accusing him of lying); and responded appropriately to a real threat that had materialized on his watch and resulted in the murder of 3000 American citizens. The paranoia of the left can be seen in their attempts to undermine his actions by resorting to ridiculous connections that simply don't compute-- just as fluoridation being a plot of the communists didn't resonate with reality; neither does Michael Moore's fictional documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11, make the paranoid case for some underlying conspiracy.

While there is merit in debating how best to go about achieving our objectives in the war in Iraq and the GWOT; believing that terrorism is a conspiracy cooked up by Bush and Co. to consolidate power and institute (take your pick) a fascist state; a theocracy; or both; is simply a paranoid fantasy that consoles those of the liberal left who cannot cope with their loss of power and influence.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower


For one, I am far from a "leftist". Two, my observations and opinions are in the least, equal to those of your blogger chum's, "Dr. Sanity". I think it would have been of more interest for you to give your impressions of the incident but there are no rules here. I thank you for commenting.

As it is, there are no indications that his mental condition was orchestrated and used to target the particular event that congresswoman was hosting. While there have been indications that assassins had been conditioned to carry out their deeds after having been brainwhashed by techniques learned and applied under the MKULTRA program at the present time nothing hints that this is the case with Giffords shooting.

If evidence will turn out that the perpetrator was not just a crazy loner is yet to be seen. That the event might be use for advocates of stricter gun control is certain.

reply to post by Hemisphere


Well, the article about the left is quite extensive. It goes into both sides how they use the paranoia component to political discussion.

Also, I never accused you of being on the left. Heck, some on the right call me a type of lefty being I am a Libertarian. But carry on.

Originally posted by Cassius666
As it is, there are no indications that his mental condition was orchestrated and used to target the particular event that congresswoman was hosting. While there have been indications that assassins had been conditioned to carry out their deeds after having been brainwhashed by techniques learned and applied under the MKULTRA program at the present time nothing hints that this is the case with Giffords shooting.

If evidence will turn out that the perpetrator was not just a crazy loner is yet to be seen. That the event might be use for advocates of stricter gun control is certain.

True enough Cassius, I have merely posted my instinctual response to these events and the coverage. If you notice I mentioned that I saw similarities to what I had seen and read regarding Mark David Chapman and the Lennon shooting. Considering the two incidents at length today I thought of another similarity between these two shooters. Chapman met Lennon for an autograph earlier on that December day. I've read that the boy that shot Gifford had confronted her at a previous speaking engagement. Granted that's a rather loose similarity between the two shootings but one I think should and will be explored. Is this initial contact with a person that becomes a target common among these shooters? I read that Hinckley stalked Jimmy Carter prior to the attempt on Reagan. In that case one might think that the person holding the position of power is not the target and that the position of power is the target. And so nothing personal between the shooter and the person being shot. The person being shot is more or less standing in front of the target when these nuts go off with or without external influence.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

Well, the article about the left is quite extensive. It goes into both sides how they use the paranoia component to political discussion.

Also, I never accused you of being on the left. Heck, some on the right call me a type of lefty being I am a Libertarian. But carry on.

My mistake. I think I agree that the paranoia component is fostered and used to advantage by both parties but more to the point I think is that there is only an illusion of "two parties". I see a direct connection between Bush and Obama despite the theatrics of veering the country from right to left. And for at least the past 50 years the politcal activity in the US would be better described as veering the country from center left to far left with a continual drift to the left.

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." -- David Rockefeller.

"well publicized incidents" The evidence has been right in front of us for a century or more. I for one think that events are not simply seized upon when presented but orchestrated for a/the globalist agenda. I'm far from alone in that. I also think I'm far from alone in thinking that this shooting was orchestrated.