NEWS: China Warns Condoleezza Rice About Taiwan

Originally posted by zcheng
"hit 20+ cities with its ICBM's"?

It was 20 years ago.

20 years ago you guys couldn't get a rocket off the launch pad without it blowing up! It wasn't until Bill Clinton took the bribes from the Chinese and allowed your spies to steal our propulsion technology that you were able to get anything in the air! Even then it didn't matter because you couldn't actually get it to go where you wanted it to. Again, Clinton took more bribes from the Chinese and allowed Motorolla to sell you guidance technology and satellite technology. Finally, any nuclear bombs that you had prior to 1998 looked like our early WWII bombs. It wasn't until Clinton again took bribes and then a laptop containing our most vital designs for our newest multi-tipped thermo-nuclear warheads went missing from a top defense lab that you aquired the ability to produce full scale nuclear missiles.

Now that I think about it, you guys should build a statue of Clinton on Tieneman Square. After all, he's done more to advance China in 8 years than your leaders have done in 1,000!

Originally posted by kozmo

Now that I think about it, you guys should build a statue of Clinton on Tieneman Square. After all, he's done more to advance China in 8 years than your leaders have done in 1,000!

Well, do you think it's so easy to study when you have no book? They burned them during the cultural revolution And, even having some, as they changed the writing system, they were unable to read them...
So, if they didn't "borrow" american technology they'd had to start from nothing.
And God knows the way from fireworks to nuke is quite a long road.
Chinese always say they invented everything... everything except humility

Thank you Clinton !!!

[edit on 12-3-2006 by hsia]

Originally posted by hsia

Let me tell you something, there is a difference between "having chinese origins" ( from the 17th century) and being chinese.

As being australian or from UK or french and being form Quebec ( Quebec is not France, and Australia is not UK)

Are you serious? If you have Chinese origins from the 17th century, you are Chinese nevertheless you moron. If I am 100% French and have lived in Quebec for 4 generations, I will not deny that I am french.

Taiwan is a state of China beyond Beijing's control ONLY IN CHINESE DREAMS.

No... That is the Status Quo and nearly every nation in the world accepts that INCLUDING the UN and the US AND THE MAJORITY of the Taiwanese people.

Taiwan is a sovereign state and if the world community was more interested by DEMOCRACY than MONEY, could be free from chines threat.

WTH are you talking about? Makes no sense whatsoever.

They don't even speak the same chinese (like english/american), and
don't even write the same way.

Are you kiddin me? If someone from the mainland were to arrive to Taiwan, he would be fine. He would be able to understand anything.

A chinese can't even read a letter that his grandfather wrote without learning to read "traditional words".

Uh.. No. My parents are from the Mainland and they read HK newspapers.

There is a strong native culture, (Paiwan, Amis, ...)

Three is a strong native culture anywhere in China. From Cantonese to Shanghainese. Do they deny they are Chinese?

Mandarin is the national language, so what? Before it was japanese...

What kinda argument is this?

Only a few people speak chinese at home and they use their native language to talk with friends.

Even people that you call "han chinese" speak Hakka or Hokklo.

Um.. Only a small minority. Even then, in Canton, they speak Cantonese with their friends and families, in Chengdu, they speak the native language, in Shanghai, so do they. IN ANYwhere in China,t hey will speak their native language with friends and family.

And the more they learn about history, the more they can see that Taiwan is not China.

Officially it is the Republic of China.

Go to the south of Taiwan and you will see that people feel closer from japanese than for chinese.

Don't speak for the people of Taiwan, you only speak for the extremists of Taiwan. Oh what happened to President Chen? Isn't he getting recalled? His popularity rating is at what? 20%? It was 10% at some point of his presidency wasnt it?

Why? Easy, china never did anything FOR Taiwan, except avoiding WHO to come and help to face SARS, and try to stop Taiwan in its evolution and communication with other countries.

Are you kiddin me? Go talk to some Taiwanese businessmen then come back here.

as many people who support Taiwanese independence as there are those who support reunification:THIS IS A BIG BULL...!!!

LOL, only in your dreams. It is the truth. There is a small percentage of those who SEEK independence, and there is a same percentage of those who seek reunification. THE MAJORITY of Taiwanese wants to retain the status quo.

You obviously don't know much about Taiwan, do you?

You're obviously an extremist minority who thinks he speaks for the whole nation.

I like the chinese people they are okay. I don't like the communists though they are so corrupt. It looks like the international bankers control the chinese communists so far but I wonder how much longer this is going to last.

Originally posted by k4rupt
Are you serious? If you have Chinese origins from the 17th century, you are Chinese nevertheless you moron. If I am 100% French and have lived in Quebec for 4 generations, I will not deny that I am french.

I wish for you that after 4 generations you would be canadien. Else you would be a real problem for your country.
Chinese now feel chinese and it was not true before the Chin Dynasty (many kindoms, many languages) . The problem is not your origins, it's your culture. Quebec people study canada's history, politics, literature...
Taiwan has many inluences in its culture, local ( native, hakka, hokklo ) or from invaders and immigrants ( dutch, spanish,japanese chinese). This culture is different from china. I don't think that a native from Paiwan tribe is interested in poetry of Tang dynasty but he is in his old men's deer hunting stories.

No... That is the Status Quo and nearly every nation in the world accepts that INCLUDING the UN and the US AND THE MAJORITY of the Taiwanese people.

No nation wants to attack china, this is the reason why they "accept" a status quo. But it doesn't mean that it's fair. Taiwan was in UN before China
and was kicked only for economical reasons. And the majority of Taiwanese doesn't want to be chinese. Did you know that there is no more NUC and I didn't see any protest march in the streets...

Are you kiddin me? If someone from the mainland were to arrive to Taiwan, he would be fine. He would be able to understand anything.

Chinese learn simple caracters, people from mainland are not able to read except if they learn traditional chinese. The chinese is different, due to a language evolution: lot of words no more used except in movies,
lot of english an japanese words, even some french one...
I don't mean you will be totally lost, but the culture is different.

Uh.. No. My parents are from the Mainland and they read HK newspapers.

You parents are 2 persons, we are talking about chinese population, a little bit more than your 2 parents ( who were lucky to go to school)

Three is a strong native culture anywhere in China. From Cantonese to Shanghainese. Do they deny they are Chinese?

The only difference is that Cantonese and Shanghainese are chinese. Taiwan native have never been chinese (austronesians) and all the immigrants's kids (else than chinese), thai, corean,vietnamese,... too.
Don't you think that if "han people" of the 17th century left china they had a good reason. When you like the culture so much you go back home, you don't stay. Ask the american people if they feel english,german,french,dutch,spanish... They feel americans wherever their parents are from.

Hsia says: Mandarin is the national language, so what? Before it was japanese...

answer:
What kinda argument is this?

The national language, now chinese, has never been a choice, Japanese and then KMT decided weapons in hand what they want for the country.
It doesn't mean people like it. How many african countries have English as a national language, are they english?

Um.. Only a small minority. Even then, in Canton, they speak Cantonese with their friends and families, in Chengdu, they speak the native language, in Shanghai, so do they. IN ANYwhere in China,t hey will speak their native language with friends and family.

People speaking Taiwanese or Hokklo are not a minority. Ask to KMT people when they arrived if it was not a problem for them when people refuse to talk to them, serve them, if they were not able to speak taiwanese. These people will never forget what china did to Taiwan.

Officially it is the Republic of China.

Not for a long time

Don't speak for the people of Taiwan, you only speak for the extremists of Taiwan. Oh what happened to President Chen? Isn't he getting recalled? His popularity rating is at what? 20%? It was 10% at some point of his presidency wasnt it?

Communist propaganda
You should read some real newspaper or go to Taiwan to see by yourself.
Then maybe you'd stop daydreaming...

Are you kiddin me? Go talk to some Taiwanese businessmen then come back here.

Businessmen got no nation,no religion, no country
even americans play the shirt lifters with commies

LOL, only in your dreams. It is the truth. There is a small percentage of those who SEEK independence, and there is a same percentage of those who seek reunification. THE MAJORITY of Taiwanese wants to retain the status quo.

Once again, you should stop to read communist propaganda newspapers.
Mao is big, Mao is great, let's free Taiwan from the bad Kapitalistzen (like Marx, lol)

You're obviously an extremist minority who thinks he speaks for the whole nation.

I 'm certainly not an extremist, I think that chinese should solve their own problems, and let people who don't ask anything rule their lives.

Another exemple of the "chinese problem" : for WHO Taiwan is bird flu infected, why: because china is infected
have a look:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 13-3-2006 by hsia]

Originally posted by hsia

I wish for you that after 4 generations you would be canadien. Else you would be a real problem for your country.
Chinese now feel chinese and it was not true before the Chin Dynasty (many kindoms, many languages) . The problem is not your origins, it's your culture. Quebec people study canada's history, politics, literature...
Taiwan has many inluences in its culture, local ( native, hakka, hokklo ) or from invaders and immigrants ( dutch, spanish,japanese chinese). This culture is different from china. I don't think that a native from Paiwan tribe is interested in poetry of Tang dynasty but he is in his old men's deer hunting stories.

Wow... Okay let me tell you something. No matter how long you stay in a foreign land, if your blood is 100% Chinese, YOU ARE CHINESE nevertheless. You can be Chinese-American, Chinese-Canadian, WHATEVER you want to label yourself. But to deny that YOU ARE Chinese is something... oh lets say something only an lunatic extremist from Taiwan would do.

No nation wants to attack china, this is the reason why they "accept" a status quo. But it doesn't mean that it's fair. Taiwan was in UN before China
and was kicked only for economical reasons. And the majority of Taiwanese doesn't want to be chinese. Did you know that there is no more NUC and I didn't see any protest march in the streets...

Are you serious? YOu have seriously got to go out and meet with the general population of Taiwan. The majority of the people of Taiwan have not forget NOR deny who they are. They are Chinese and that is that. You're right there isn't a NUC anymore and THAT is the reason why President Chen is getting recalled. Wasn't his popularity at 20%? He's getting recalled? HINT HINT.

Chinese learn simple caracters, people from mainland are not able to read except if they learn traditional chinese. The chinese is different, due to a language evolution: lot of words no more used except in movies,
lot of english an japanese words, even some french one...
I don't mean you will be totally lost, but the culture is different.

Okay, I guess you aren't that bright because ANYONE from the mainland can figure out traditional. They may not understand every single character, but they can pretty much guess and read traditional just as well.

You parents are 2 persons, we are talking about chinese population, a little bit more than your 2 parents ( who were lucky to go to school)

And you are just 1 person who cannot read/guess simplified. They were lucky to go to school? They were among the poorest of the poor.

The only difference is that Cantonese and Shanghainese are chinese. Taiwan native have never been chinese (austronesians)

Oh my god... ONLY THE ABORIGINIES are austronesians AND THEY MAKEU P ONLY 2% of Taiwan. The other 98% are HAN CHINESE. Stop spreading your bs propoganda.

The national language, now chinese, has never been a choice, Japanese and then KMT decided weapons in hand what they want for the country.
It doesn't mean people like it. How many african countries have English as a national language, are they english?

Wow... So you're telling me the only reason why everyone in Taiwan speaks Chinese is because they were forced to? Wow...

Officially it is the Republic of China.


Not for a long time

You're right, because reunification will come sooner than you expect. You think President Chen is going to even THINK about changing the name of the country? HE IS GETTING RECALLED for idiotically stoping the NUC.

Communist propaganda
You should read some real newspaper or go to Taiwan to see by yourself.
Then maybe you'd stop daydreaming...

Are you serious? This is FACT you idiot. That's quite idiotic of you, calling it "communist propaganda" when confronted with the truth.

Once again, you should stop to read communist propaganda newspapers.
Mao is big, Mao is great, let's free Taiwan from the bad Kapitalistzen (like Marx, lol)

I live in the U.S. You are just assuming that I read communist newspapers. Assuming leads to ignorance. I have never touched a communist newspaper IN MY LIFE. All I speak of is the TRUTH and you can only call it "communist propoganda". WOw.

I 'm certainly not an extremist, I think that chinese should solve their own problems, and let people who don't ask anything rule their lives.

You certainly ARE an extremist. The polls have shown that the majority of the Taiwan people want to retain the status quo and only the minority support independence or reunification right now.

So, if you are living in USA, I really don't understand why you buy all these communists bull...
Taiwanese are Taiwanese, wathever you want them to be. You, nor china can decide for them.
That's all that they ask, to decide about THEIR FUTURE.
Without any foreign chinese or 4 generation pure blood ( sound like hitler's words ) chinese american.
If you are in a free country, you can read some real books, then just do it.

Or go to Taiwan and talk to people, all kind of people, from the guy in the rice field to the doctor, the one who lived in a foreign country and went back, the one whose family was killed by KMT or put in Jail for political reasons.

And if you fell so chinese: 滾回中國!
Go and see people starving in the countyside, people who can't afford school, can't pay for hospital, misery, exploitation and the new millionaries in the cities.
If it was my country, I would not for sure be in America, playing on internet to "the smart guy who invented powder", I would try to change the things and help.

And let's talk about your culture, where do you buy your chinese food, in chinatown, 99 market? Have you ever been in a rice field? How can you talk about china? have you ever been there?

Or are you one of these rich kids who go to study in america when others are working in factories for a bowl of rice a month?

... when poor people (85 millions get less than 882 yuans/year) will eat
every day (29 millions eat when they are lucky) then,
maybe Taiwan will be interested to be closer from china...

(you can read about it in : Liowang / Yazhou Zhoukan / courrier international )



[edit on 14-3-2006 by hsia]

If you think I am an extremist just have a look at that:
chinasucks.blogspirit.com...

Doesn't matter if the people of Taiwan are Chinese or not. What matters is that they do not want to be part of China anymore. If they did want to be part of China it would happened long time ago, during the Chinese revolution. But since then the people of Taiwan don't want to go back because they like where they are at, and the Chinese mainland knows that the people don't want to come back and pointing weapons like land based missiles and threaten to invade points out those facts.

Originally posted by hsia
So, if you are living in USA, I really don't understand why you buy all these communists bull...
Taiwanese are Taiwanese, wathever you want them to be. You, nor china can decide for them.
That's all that they ask, to decide about THEIR FUTURE.
Without any foreign chinese or 4 generation pure blood ( sound like hitler's words ) chinese american.
If you are in a free country, you can read some real books, then just do it.

Yes, and the majority of the Taiwanese MADE a choice to retain the status quo. The majority of the Taiwanese people want to retain the status quo and YOU of all people should know what the status quo means. I have read TONS of books on the current situation by BOTH sides. As for you, I suggest you start reading articles from both sides instead of just one. Maybe you'll learn more.

And if you fell so chinese: 滾回中國!
Go and see people starving in the countyside, people who can't afford school, can't pay for hospital, misery, exploitation and the new millionaries in the cities.
If it was my country, I would not for sure be in America, playing on internet to "the smart guy who invented powder", I would try to change the things and help.

Are you kiddin me? This is completely ignorant, irrelevant BS. Let's look at the Taiwanese parliament. How many of them are Triad leaders? Let's not go off topic with your irrelevantly ignorant bashings.

Or are you one of these rich kids who go to study in america when others are working in factories for a bowl of rice a month?

How does this add any debate to this argument. This statement is utter trash and need not be in this argument. YOu are completely full of yourself.


THE FACT IS that the Majority of the people of Taiwan support the status quo, with a small minority supporting independce are quick reunification. Read the polls. President Chen's approval rating is at 20% right now and he is currently being RECALLED because of his idiotic behavior. The KMT has recently won majority power in the parliament because the people of Taiwan are SICK of Chen's EXTREMIST idieas.

[edit on 14-3-2006 by k4rupt]

Originally posted by deltaboy
Doesn't matter if the people of Taiwan are Chinese or not. What matters is that they do not want to be part of China anymore. If they did want to be part of China it would happened long time ago, during the Chinese revolution. But since then the people of Taiwan don't want to go back because they like where they are at, and the Chinese mainland knows that the people don't want to come back and pointing weapons like land based missiles and threaten to invade points out those facts.

I think that it's right, instead of focusing on "who's chinese or not", better focus on who wants to be part of china, and Taiwan doesn't want.

By the way, official papers, ID card, passport are getting more and more Taiwanese style and less and less KMT style.

And , if even KMT people stay in Taiwan, it's because commies don't know what democracy means.


And people like to feel that they belong to a country who cares, they don't feel concerned by china's problems ( except the one who got family in china) because china doesn't really care about Taiwanese problems, they just want more land.(like Tibet)
If china thinks that Taiwanese are their brothers why the missiles?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this point of vue is interesting: Democracy must trump nationalism

www.taipeitimes.com...

[edit on 15-3-2006 by hsia]

Yes, and the majority of the Taiwanese MADE a choice to retain the status quo.

you should say Taiwanese don't want a war
They don't want a war, they dont want to be chinese: staus quo

This is completely irrelevant :

Let's look at the Taiwanese parliament. How many of them are Triad leaders?

when I say:
Are you one of these rich kids who go to study in america when others are working in factories for a bowl of rice a month?

I just want to know if you've ever been in china or in Taiwan or if you are born an grew up in USA.
It's easy to talk when you are not starving or you don't have missiles pointing on your house.

Now, just one thing, the fact that we don't agree doesn't give you the right to forget to be polite.
So please keep your "Moron" and other "idiots" for your friends. This will help to have a better communication.


[edit on 15-3-2006 by hsia]

[edit on 15-3-2006 by hsia]

about Tibet:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes !!!
Thanks for this thread, it's a very good job.
I wish that all the taiwanese could know THEIR history, ( and not china's one) and think about who they are.
How many really know what is 228, what the KMT did to teachers, lawyers and intellectuals, that member of the government went in jail because they tried to protect democracy...
I wish there are more people like you, telling the truth and active, to give a real future to Formosa : Republic of Taiwan

have a look:
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/kmt.jpeg
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/yahoo.jpg
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/google.jpg

wow ....cool down guys so much abhorrence.

just one thing don't get the french involved!

Peace LeMagnifique

about Taiwan :

members.shaw.ca...

about KMT and their new friends, they forget all the people dead for their ideas:

www.afterimagegallery.com...

The "three links" dilemma :

www.taiwandc.org...

Mao and the KMT: ( but KMT forget it)

news.bbc.co.uk...

About KMT going to visit china:

www.rfa.org...

The real face of KMT:

www.schwartzbooks.com...

KMT and PRC friendship?
www.movius.us...

Talking about peace:
www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by hsia
have a look:
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/kmt.jpeg
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/yahoo.jpg
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/google.jpg

these links are not working, go to:
adventure..._kayak.tripod.com/

Anyone notice how similar this is to Pre-WW1?

Down to the agreement British Empire had with Belgium, compare that to the agreement that the United State's has with Taiwan. The major difference we have now, is that the United State's could end up with China having to launch a Nuclear Strike or even a much larger War.

China has began to link itself to parts of the Middle East and South America, areas which recently have been having problems with the United State's. This in turn will only cause more harm, especailly if the Pact between China-India-Russia holds up, however recent events between India and the United State's [Nuclear Information] seem to be based on undermining China.

In a Nuclear Age, wars are more of a risk then ever.

Originally posted by Odium
Anyone notice how similar this is to Pre-WW1?

Down to the agreement British Empire had with Belgium, compare that to the agreement that the United State's has with Taiwan. The major difference we have now, is that the United State's could end up with China having to launch a Nuclear Strike or even a much larger War.

China has began to link itself to parts of the Middle East and South America, areas which recently have been having problems with the United State's. This in turn will only cause more harm, especailly if the Pact between China-India-Russia holds up, however recent events between India and the United State's [Nuclear Information] seem to be based on undermining China.

In a Nuclear Age, wars are more of a risk then ever.

You forget korea in the plan but else I think your analysis is,
unfortunately , very good. I think middle east alliance should be easy if the common enemy is USA. By the way Iran's attitude seems to translate a will to start a war without assuming to declare it. They wish that USA or Europe will go to far .
And China and Russia had recent training together, not so scary in other circumstances because they are neighbors, but with the anti-cessession law and china buying more and more weapons...