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Economists foretell of U.S. decline, China's ascension

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posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:00 PM

Economists foretell of U.S. decline, China's ascension

Leading thinkers in the dismal science speaking at an annual convention offered varying visions of U.S. economic decline, in the short, medium and long term. This year, the recovery may bog down as government stimulus measures dry up.

In the long run, the United States must face up to inevitably being overtaken by China as the world's largest economy. And it may have missed a chance to rein in its largest financial institutions, many of whom remain too big to fail and are getting bigger.

(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:00 PM

Are we seeing the shift of world power beginning to change hands here? Is China emerging as the new financial mega-power? Or is this still a ways off?

Has corporatism and consolidation, mega-banking and disastrous financial policies run amok signaled the fall of the American Empire from its lead position? Are the mega corporations and banksters the final nail in the coffin for this country, due to more and more wealth in fewer and fewer hands?

Or is there still time to turn this trainwreck around? I know all empires rise and fall, but how many here feel this is truly the last gasps for us financially?
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 9-1-2011 by DimensionalDetective because: typo

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:07 PM
China will be, for a little while, world leader in economics since the US dollar will probably fall near "0" before the end of March 2011. The collapse has been engineered and this will bring chaos in North America.
I foresee 4 economic blocks in the next 18 months. America, Asia, EU and the Eastern European countries. I also see the US trying to stop China from achieving the top spot... Some sort of weather related attack...
Time will tell.
My 2 cents

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:19 PM

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective


Are we seeing the shift of world power beginning to change hands here? Is China emerging as the new financial mega-power? Or is this still a ways off?

Has corporatism and consolidation, mega-banking and disastrous financial policies run amok signaled the fall of the American Empire from its lead position?

Or is there still time to turn this traiwreck around? I know all empires rise and fall, but how many here feel this is truly the last gasps for us financially?

I think what were seeing is the same dog and pony show that has been commonplace since the Federal Reserve's inception. This is the very type of scenario our forefathers spoke of:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

Artificial booms and busts have been the rule, rather than the exception to it since the first crash caused by artificial inflation. If there is any difference to be seen in today's scenario, it is that the moneybrokers have pushed this country to its breaking point and now wish to move on to another. Expect if this is the case, for new currencies to be issued, new Central Banks to assume power, and much of the same unless the machina behind the veil is finally confronted, as it was with the US founding.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:21 PM
The banksters will now begin the China Bubble. There are billions to support the scam. China should satisfy their thirst for power for a couple centuries.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:23 PM
This is the second thread I've read about the U.S. economic decline. The other thread, if I can find it, is quite good.

My question is how will this affect so-called powerful European international bankers? Would they, if the U.S. empire were to fall, leech their way into Eastern economies or have they already? Sure, China could become the world's leading economic power but would the international bankers allow it is my question.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:26 PM
reply to post by DevilJin

That is "the question" isn't it... China has no debt towards these banksters and they are eager to do business worldwide. As long as China will see advantages for them, they'll go along with the game. But one must wonder if that regime will be able to sustain attacks from the so called "elites" of this world.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:27 PM
ATS has been way ahead of these "economists" and has foreseen this long before it was even being discussed in the MSM.

China will be the new dominate supreme world power and it can ONLY happen following the collapse of the US.

It is getting close... Too damned close now. Rather than predicting the reality that already exists the US government and the best "economists" we have need to focus on strategies to halt the ascension of China and restore the US economy... Before it is too late.

Save the talk and predictions, leave the doom and gloom to us, and get your asses to work.. We need actions and jobs not more talk.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:39 PM
reply to post by Fractured.Facade

If we don't talk to one another, how can we start the process of freeing ourselves from the insidious manipulation of this criminal cabal calling all the shots and bringing the population to the brink of revolt? The exchange (either on forums like this one or in person) is one of the most important part in finding the solutions to this worldwide crisis. The madness must stop. They have abused their powers and now it's time to take it all back. Not complying with any of their evil plans is the first step. The banking system is non-intelligent and anti-human.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 05:52 PM
The U.S.A will collapse this year, big time. And when she does i believe Europe will too, and like dominoes so will China because their main income as far as i am aware is exports and i also believe the U.S.A and Europe are the biggest buyers of chinese crap. But i know little about economics

I hope it all picks up but i can't see it.
edit on 9/1/2011 by BarmyBilly because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 06:29 PM
The sleeping dragon snorts itself awake. Shakes the dust off its tail, puts on a baseball cap (tag still on) and steps up to the plate of world power.

Will they be allowed to bat? Probably.

Which has been leading me to think lately: How will they fall when their time at top is over? They have a pretty impressive--but still fairly small--middlle-class, though already 'ace' consumers. So will the same economic factors befall them or will it be a different kind of implosion.

Maybe the 'slave force' will eventually revolt?

On a side note: I was a teen who had already done enough research to know that psychics and their predictions were twaddle. However there was this one guy, I don't remember his name that said he had very strong & disturbing visions of thousands upon thousands of Chinese troops invading our soil. Inscrutable in face and mission. That one stuck with me and I don't know why.
edit on 9-1-2011 by The GUT because: fixy

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 06:45 PM
If the US goes down it will drag everyone else down as well either by default or forceably. TPTB do not want the US to decline but have China as the MAIN power in the world. That is not in the cards.

TPTB want ALL the countries to go down so that it can implement a one world governement and one world currency. China will be subserviant to this one world government just like everyone else.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 07:20 PM
That America is going to collaps in the near Future is alerady set in Stone in my Opinion.

"Too little,too late" is how it goes.

China is already investing/trading in Russia,India and Europe more and more lately (China signed Contracts worth Billions with some of the biggest German Companys last Week...)

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 09:51 PM
America had heaps of money, but it is all getting skimmed of the top. The longer the US pussy foot around the longer the recovery will take and the worst the fall out. The Federal Reserve and IRS must go back into government hands. There will be no more unmanageable interest problem for the Nation then. The to big to fail will have a hard time as their gravy train comes to an end, some might pull through, some won't. As long as the social security program is in good shape then most of the people will get through as the mess is sorted out. After it has all be cleaned up rebuilding can begin. Too hard to say how it will go against China as many ways through it, America should be more concerned with Americas ass for now.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 10:23 PM
I think US will still be the largest economy if they pay much attention on develeping themselves but not supressing others ...

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 12:28 PM
Seems more and more financial experts are starting to chime in on this subject:

Exclusive: America has ‘reached the point of no return,’ Reagan budget director warns

"We've reached a point of no return. The size of the government. The massive size of the deficits and the national debt that has been created. The precedents that have been established for bailouts and intervention in every sector of the economy. The K Street lobbying system which totally dominates the Congress. All of these are very unhealthy developments.

"And I'm not sure how they are going to be reversed or eliminated," he concluded. "It may be a permanent way of life. Then, if it is, it'll be both a corruption of democracy and a serious weakening of the private capitalistic economy."

Full Article:

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 01:12 PM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

I noticed that this has yet to be posted, so I'll just go ahead and do it. If you have a fear of facts and figures, turn away now.

(1) GDP of the US (PPP) in millions of dollars: 14,624,184
China: 10,084,369

This is according to the IMF. The link has a few other figures.

(2) This is a showing of populations. The US is quite a bit behind the Peoples Republic.with a 311 million population as opposed to 1.3 billion in China.

The last numbers deal in food and the links If you look up wheat and corn you can find it at wikipedia.

Wheat - China: 112 million Tons
- US: 68 million Tons

Corn - China: 163 Million Tons
- US: 333 Million Tons


The fact is the United States is more then able to take care of its own. We have the resources and technology to stop all international trade and still be ok. As opposed to the rest of the world which would crap kittens. Now don't think I'm trying to big up the United States. The touch screens on your Ipod, ya that requires metals that is almost exclusively mined in China.

The point is the United States is clearly producing excess of alot of food, and money via money management. The United states also has a slower growing population then China seemingly does. China has a quite a few more people then the United States and is able to pay less for the work. If you take a long view and look back at history you'll see that China blazes up the ranks of nations and then falters, falls, and then blazes back up the charts. The United States on the other hand is more stable. We have been slowly growing our entire history, and it would be foolish to think that our time is up now or even in the next twenty years. The EU only has us beat by a little in GDP, and they have most of the G20 in the EU!

Anyway, Dispite what you think about the direction of the Country, we really do have very little wholesale corruption and waste. We really do check up on our learders with a keen eye for mistakes. In China, you just kind of have to trust the leadership to do the right thing. In China only the Government holds you to account, so if you're in what I like to call the 'Good ol' Boy' club you can get away with anything so long as you keep the boss happy. China is showing impressive growth, but if you look at the mechanics of the system you will see that it is largely artificial. In the United States unemployment is bad now, but it will fall as time goes on and workers get retrained into other fields. The laid off workers from the construction sector will most likely move into installing energy related technology on houses and such, the admin workers will get jobs in other companies and so on. In China the must keep the economy growing at all times so that there will be enough jobs period. In the US when the economy slumps you can move in with family and so on, get odd jobs or something to get by and wait out the storm. In China if the economy were to slump for them, the people would freak out.

In the end, people have been fortelling the end of the american age since the 70's and yet we seem to go from strength to strength. If you look, the US actually does better when we have someone to compeet against.

Sorry about the text wall, but it gets me fired up when people look at one aspect of an event and then declare a winner.
edit on 10-1-2011 by Obinhi because: Opinion disclamer

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:15 PM
I think China is highly likely to attain the world's largest and most influencial economy, for a while...but it will also have to rapidly deal with many complex issues global and domestic re: demograhics, politics, economics, resources, environment, and religion, and immediately embroiled in an unpredictable and shifting context of multiple nuclear and WMD possessing players, including state-independent terrorist factions.

A few good articles I thought:

HSBC sees China and America leading global mega-boom optimistic economics? go on - cheer yourself up!

In China's Orbit - by Niall Ferguson a historians perspective

National Geographic Special Series - 7 Billion By 2045 global population is projected to reach nine billion. Can the planet take the strain? By Robert Kunzig a 15 page article well worth a read - like HSBC - they think the demographics will dictate a lot of what we will all face and are in many ways pre-programed...? India will, unless hindered by disaster, overtake China's population by 2030 apparently...

edit on 10-1-2011 by curioustype because: spelling

posted on Jan, 10 2011 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by Obinhi

Liked the figures, you know what I saw the other day that shocked me by way of a comparison/indicator (I don't know why - I'm sure I'd kind of heard it somewhere before) - economically at least:

Automobile industry in China - Wikipedia

Since November 2009, China is the largest auto market in the world.[1][2][3] China's automobile industry has been in rapid development since the early 1990s. In 2009, China produced 13.79 million units of automobile, of which 8 million units were passenger cars (sedans, sport utility vehicles (SUV), multi-purpose vehicles (MPV) and crossovers), and 3.41 million units were commercial vehicles (buses, trucks, and tractors). Of the automobiles produced, 44.3% are local brands (BYD, Lifan, Chang'an (Chana), Geely, Chery, Hafei, Jianghuai (JAC), Great Wall, Roewe, Martin Motors, etc.), the rest being produced by joint ventures with foreign car makers such as Volkswagen, General Motors, Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, Toyota etc. Most of the cars manufactured in China are sold within China, with only 369,600 cars being exported in 2009.

China's annual automobile production capacity first exceeded one million in 1992. By 2000, China was producing over two million vehicles. After China's entry into the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, the development of the automobile market further accelerated. Between 2002 and 2007, China's national automobile market grew by an average 21 percent, or one million vehicles year-on-year. In 2006, China’s vehicle production capacity successively exceeded six, then seven million, and in 2007, China produced over eight million automobiles.[4] In 2009, 13.759 million motor vehicles were manufactured in China, surpassing Japan as the largest automobile maker in the world.

The number of registered cars, buses, vans, and trucks on the road in China reached 62 million in 2009, and is expected to exceed 200 million by 2020.[5]

The consultancy McKinsey & Company estimates that China's car market will grow tenfold between 2005 and 2030.[6]

The main national industry group is the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers

In 2009, 13.759 million motor vehicles were manufactured in China

In 2009, 5.711 million motor vehicles were manufactured in the USA

In 2009, 5,711,823 motor vehicles were manufactured in the United States, the third largest in the world after China and Japan.
Automotive Industry in the United States - Wikipedia

I know it's just a lone example/comparison, probably unsurprising - but look at the contrast in growth and domestic consumption - for someone who grew up in awe of the USA motor industry and culture...

posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

...the United States ...may have missed a chance to rein in its largest financial institutions, many of whom remain too big to fail and are getting bigger.

"Too big to fail" means "So big, government is afraid to let them fail." Sounds like there may be no other alternate in a while...

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