If you really want to talk about the *origins* of slave trade, you've got to go back in time farther than that...Much farther.

Historically, slaves were mostly captured from war. The general rule back then was, "The winner did whatever he wanted to the loser". Whichever people *had* slaves but weren't currently warring with their neighbors, had a tendency to trade goods with each other...Including slaves.
This has been documented in history for as far back as the invention of Writing...


[Edited on 19-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

but in america you were born into slaverly. Plus the women were rapped in front of the men and forced to have the children. They would also take the strongest slave and torcher them in front of everyone. True enough slaverly didn't start with america but it was the crulest form of slavelry.

I hate when you people try to down play the fact that what happened here was wrong. No other group of people were put though as much hell as the american slave. Every time I see some B.S like what was poseted here it makes me sick to my stomach

What's your problem abstract_alao ?

You don't know how to deal with something that you don't like ?

It would be so horrible if the USA were not those sick bastards that you think that they are, isn't it ?

Sorry, but facts are facts.

I just tryed to show that the slavery problem is/was a worldwide problem, and is/was not limited to a nation, a race, a continent, a religion...etc...etc...

Stay cool man.

You see I have heard that type of argument before from people. They allways try to pin it on black people and say that it's their fault and that we use it as an excuse(i'm not trying to say that's what you were trying to do. I'm now sure you had good intent). It is easy for a lot of people to judge because they are on the outside looking in.

I can still see the effects even to this day. It is a very sensitve issue to not only me but to a lot of black people. I didn't mean to come out and attack you so harshly like that. But you got to understand where i'm comming from. I have had heated debates with pepople on this subject and I allways have to bring up how I was diretly effected by this.

You see I am a product of a slave master raping his slave. When My great grand mother(R.I.P) told me about this I was almost in tears. I was 13 when she told me I'm 23 now. It really dosen't bother me that much anymore because I know that i'm not the only one. I just get a little defensive when I think that people try to down play it that's all. Once again I didn't mean to lash out on you it's just a sensitive subject.

Abstract, it was no more cruel here than anywhere else. One does not "rape" his own property, therefore it was not "rape". I know, that is disturbing to think, but that was how it was seen.
The fact that slaves were born into slavery is also not unique to America.
What is unique about America? The way that the practice was abolished, how the decedants of slavery have been taken care of to the point of their own detriment, and in such a short period of time.
The practice still goes on in the world. If we still practiced slavery, we'd all be able to purchase a slave from countries like Sudan. Sad, but how can we change their way?

Alao, I never said that slavery wasn't wrong...All I said was that slavery has been with humankind since the dawn of civilization, if not longer. If you think that the American form of slavery was the most cruel, then I think you need to study your history lesson a bit more thoroughly. TC, is right about the uniqueness of how America abolished it slave practices...In history, some places simply didn't practice slavery due to religious reasons (very few, I might add), but America was the first to abolish it *as an act of secular law* throughout the whole country.
Granted, the Civil Rights actions in the 60's was also needed to get the decendants of those slaves on a more-or-less equal footing here, but what other country has even gone *this* far in this short of a time period in that very direction? Answer: None.

I'm sad for you Alao and I can tell you that I hate slavery. I really don't mind if the peoples are whites, blacks or another color. It doesn't matter. Slavery is slavery and slavery is an insult to the whole world. It's a fact that all the races, society ,country and religion ( yes, religions too ), has used slavery like a tool of control.

And all the races have been victims of slavery.

Did you ever heard anything about the whites females trading ? It's still going on nowadays.

Black slavery ? It's still going on nowadays too. In exemple, in Somalia, where gang leaders are using kids and teenagers as soldier or sex slave. On this case, it's done by black peoples against other black peoples.

Did you know that many rumors cames out from South-East Asia, especially from Laos, that local drug barons were/are using forgotten US POW/MIA as slaves ? These POW/MIA were/are blacks and whites....

I don't know for you, but when I was at school my teachers learned me that ONLY whites were doing slave trading and that only blacks were slaves. Could you imagine my surprise when I learned that it wasn't true ?

A good exemple is Brazil. In Brazil, 1/3 of the slave owners were blacks and 2/3 were whites.

Also, the peoples who were the bigger slavetraders were the arabs. I forgot the *word*, but the word for *slave* and the word for * blacks*, in arab, is the same.They don't have 2 words, only 1. Too bad...

Also, I'm pretty sure that we have all slaves ancestors and slaves owners ancestors.

I hope that one day slavery will be definitively a part of our past and that we'll be all free from that horror. No more slavery !!!!!!!!!!!

with respect to both MD and TC--it wasn't like america woke up one day and said "oh sh*t, what are we doing to our negros"-america had no other choice but to try to assimalate black folk into it's society; the freedom fighters made sure of that. we don't get a standing ovation for being forced to do what is right.

another thing that buged me was the rape comments. i too had to sit through my grandma's tales. her mother was a child of rape and her mother's mother also. she was raped several times herself because she is fair skin. she married a darker man so that her children wouldn't have to go through what she went through. still, we carry that fair skin trait-rape trait. no matter what it was considered; it is rape. and anyone who did it was a villian and if there is a hell then there is justice. no person is property no matter what the wicked say is lawful.

UP-this is a hard conversation to have but i actually like the way you addressed it and i agree with what you had to say on it. much respect to you for the info and knowledge you dropped in this thread.

The history of humanity is a history of liberation of the individual from hierarchic relationships, as slavery. But we shouldnt be fooled by the fact that slavery was proclaimed illegal a century ago. Many employer/employed relatioships have close characteristics of slavery today. For example if you cant afford getting fired at your company, your boss may as well ask of you whatever he wants from you. sexual harassment, overtime etc. are consequences of this. Many throughout the country and throughout the world still havent understood that men and peoples are equal in rights and before god.

I hope this will change.

Originally posted by Saphronia
with respect to both MD and TC--it wasn't like america woke up one day and said "oh sh*t, what are we doing to our negros"-america had no other choice but to try to assimalate black folk into it's society; the freedom fighters made sure of that. we don't get a standing ovation for being forced to do what is right.

Where did I ever indicate that it "happened overnight", so to speak? IMO, Racism *breeds* slavery & Lord knows we've had more than enough of that problem throughout all of human history...A social-paradagm that's been so deeply ingrained into the thought-processes of every person from the day of birth is *not* going to be that easy to get rid of.

My point was that, in America, we've done the most to crack down on slavery & it's still an ongoing process. I *never* said that everyone *is* treated equally...I said that we've gotten things more-or-less equal, at least more equal than anywhere else I've ever heard of. There's still a long way to go, but America has so far gone the furthest than anywhere else.

Slavery is the best thing to ever happen to the black persons.

Originally posted by Forrest4Three
Slavery is the best thing to ever happen to the black persons.

But your shot to put lesser blame on America on the slave trade is a bust.

Of course America didnt invent slavery, but that does not take away the fact that they either purchased, kidnapped, or robbed 300 million Africans. Broke up their families, their culture, their language, and their religion.

A common black man today doesnt know his African roots. Sure, he'll wear a t-shirt with the image of The Continent but that's about it. A black man can be a rocket scientist from MIT but be no one because he wont know his history.

abstract is right, America had the worst type of slavery there was. Torture and rape to try to "breed" the black people out.

Look up the Slavery Law of 1665 (which stayed
in effect until 1968) and the Maryland Doctrine of Exclusion
(1638): both laws state that blacks must be excluded from the
benefits afforded to whites. it clearly states that all blacks should always remain second class citizens

but America did gain something from slavery, and that was this country!

Illmatic, you're still living too far into the past. If you look at the non-slave society of America today & compare it to other countries that still practice slavery even today, you'd see that you're stuck on the past.


[Edited on 25-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by Illmatic67
nice try

But your shot to put lesser blame on America on the slave trade is a bust.

It's not your skin who's black, it's your heart and your soul. See what I mean ?

MidnightDStroyer has right on his last post,you're looking too much on the past.With peoples like you, it's not easy to move forward. In fact, you don't help the blacks peoples like you think you do.

It wasn't a * nice try *. I just tryed to say that we share all a terrible responsability on what happenned. I don't remember who, but an ATS user told me that the world was not black or white, but often grey. For you,only the whites have wrong and the blacks have right. Yu forgot the grey color !

Illmatic67, you don't see when someone want to shake your hand ! Fortunately, Saphronia don't think like you.

Just curious as to why you refer to Illmatic as having a Black heart....Black has always been associate with negative or evil when in actuallity Black is the beginning of all things..........Black womb till we reach the Black Hearse.....What's Black ,the shade of the universe!!!!!!

Originally posted by THEFOOL1
Just curious as to why you refer to Illmatic as having a Black heart....Black has always been associate with negative or evil when in actuallity Black is the beginning of all things..........Black womb till we reach the Black Hearse.....What's Black ,the shade of the universe!!!!!!

Oh c'mon ! You know what I mean. Give me a break with your so-called political correctness and try to post something that help.

I don't live in the past, I'm very aware of past events though. When people talk about Hitler, they say we must learn a lot of about him and the era in which he lived in because we must learn from the past. It's the only way to make the future brighter. So don't blame me for 'living in the past' because knowledge on the past will keep us from making the same mistakes people did in the past.

Just curious as to why you refer to Illmatic as having a Black heart....Black has always been associate with negative or evil when in actuallity Black is the beginning of all things..........Black womb till we reach the Black Hearse.....What's Black ,the shade of the universe!!!!!!

sad, this is exaclty what I mean. I've been quiet but this is just dumb, I'm about to give this boy a lesson he would never forget.

Fool:

Black is not a curse, I'm sorry you've been brainwashed to think so, I really am. Do you know know what melanin is? Have you ever had a biology class in high school? Melanin is the pigmentation that gives us our color. Melanin is also essential to survival. At the core of your brain is found the locus coeruleus ,a structure that is BLACK because it contains large amounts of (neuro) Melanin which is essential for it to operate! In fact, all the most crucial brain structures are heavily melanized! Melanin in the brain increases from the lower primates and reaches its peak in the BLACK HUMAN. Do you know what this means? Melanin is the chemical key to life itself.

Now Melanin gives us the color of our hair, skin , and eyes.

The darker you are the more melanin you have. Black skin, black eyes, and black hair. all black characterisitics= DOMINANT GENES. blue eyes, white skin, blonde hair= RECESSIVE GENES= WEAK.

curly hair is also very dominant.. all black people have very curly, frizzy , nappy hair , whatever you wish to call it. or maybe in your case, "'n-word' hair"

I'm assuming your white because of what you said so tell me this cuz I dont understand it. if black is a curse, why are so many white women tanning to look like the black and hispanic woman. "I hate being white, I hate my white skin" Yep, I hear a lot of them saying that. Why do women also get plastic surgery to enlarge their lips to make them look like the black woman. explain all this to me please.





[Edited on 3-25-2003 by Illmatic67]