Could this be Obamas real Certificate of Birth?

Originally posted by kinda kurious
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

 

FYI: Although I've never been a presidential candidate, I DO NOT have and CAN NOT provide my original BC. It was destroyed aolng with the 2nd story of our house when I was a kid during Hurricane Dora.

There a MANY reasons why someone may not be in possession of their original BC. (loss, theft, fire, flooding, accidental disposal etc.) Have you ever considered that?

edit on 10-1-2011 by kinda kurious because: typos

edit on 10-1-2011 by kinda kurious because: typos2

Yes, but most people would make sure they obtained a government-issued copy if the original one was destroyed because either they or their parents would realize that they would need it for all kinds of things. So loss of the original cannot provide a legitimate reason why Obama has not made his REAL birth certificate public. He could still have released his copy if he had lost the original. But for some strange reason - like all his educational records - he keeps it secret.......

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by Honor93
With any luck, SoH Boehner will serve the people instead of the party.

Boehner reacts to birther outburst—

In his interview with John Boehner, NBC's Brian Williams got the new House speaker to react to today's outburst by a birther in the House gallery during the reading of the Constitution. (...)

Boehner: The state of Hawaii has said that President Obama was born there. That's good enough for me.

Do you have any idea how easy life would be to pass the beer ; backslap and join in the jeers and name calling and say "yup " Simply born in America: freakin' nutty "clowns" ( birthers)?

I would dearly love to go back to not having concerns over any of this."Ignorance would indeed be bliss" because tinglers have made it a point to insult and chilishly name call at every chance they get.

I know thats the whole idea.Argue every thing into the mud until "birthers "throw our hands up indisgust and say: "Alllllright"! if thats' the kind of country you want to live in you get the world you deserve.Enjoy your assigned job and USDA food ratcard.

Originally posted by 46ACE
I know thats the whole idea.Argue every thing into the mud until "birthers "throw our hands up indisgust and say: "Alllllright"! if thats' the kind of country you want to live in you get the world you deserve.Enjoy your assigned job and USDA food ratcard.

I don’t know the motivations of others involved in this debate, I can only attest to mine, and mine is to debate this topic based on my interpretation of the law and Constitution.

And this is exactly what I did when I initially expressed my thoughts on this matter. You apparently misunderstood this to mean that you shouldn’t pursue whatever goal you potentially have.

The arguments presented so far by birthers, I have found to be unpersuasive, and the ‘evidence’ unfounded or legally baseless.

I will gladly hear your arguments and debate this subject, but don’t accuse me of wishing to live in some tyrannical dystopia because I don’t accept your bursts of outrage as proof that Obama isn’t eligible to be President.

Originally posted by micpsi
Yes, but most people would make sure they obtained a government-issued copy if the original one was destroyed because either they or their parents would realize that they would need it for all kinds of things. So loss of the original cannot provide a legitimate reason why Obama has not made his REAL birth certificate public. He could still have released his copy if he had lost the original. But for some strange reason - like all his educational records - he keeps it secret.......

Why do you not understand that the birth certificate that Obama has put online is that replacement copy that he would get from having to get one. When you lose your original and the state no longer issues that form anymore, you can no longer get a copy that does not exist. The one online is the one you get in Hawaii when you call up and say your original was lost in a hurricaine or fire. It is real. I think all the people that insist it is not real and insist they should get to see something else need to publish their document verification qualifications online because most of you do not even seem to understand what a birth certificate is. Almost none of you seem to understand what they should look like from state to state. I am not sure when everyone decided they are qualified to tell a fake from a real one but maybe if just one birther can actually ever make that case...then we would have something.

It's fake and quit with the Birther Crud. Troll alert!

Originally posted by Kangaruex4Ewe
The point was that I produced it. Anyone could see it. Why can't Mr. Obama do the same?

He has produced it.... why ignore that?

I said I would like to see it, and fail to understand whythere are so many that have not seen it as well.

If you want to see it it just google it, it has been posted on the net.....

Originally posted by micpsi
Yes, but most people would make sure they obtained a government-issued copy if the original one was destroyed because either they or their parents would realize that they would need it for all kinds of things. So loss of the original cannot provide a legitimate reason why Obama has not made his REAL birth certificate public.

He has released his birth certificate - why lie and claim he has not?

He could still have released his copy if he had lost the original.

still telling lies, he has released it...

But for some strange reason - like all his educational records - he keeps it secret.......

Still lying, he has released it.

Please show me the educational records for all previous Presidents - they must have released them, so where are they?

reply to post by Sinnthia

The one online is the one you get in Hawaii when you call up and say your original was lost in a hurricaine or fire. It is real.

The Hawaian Health department has stated that they do indeed have the FULL BC.
They need Obama's approval to release it..Which he hasn't given..

Most people request the short form simply because that's all they need and it's much cheaper to get..
It is merely a printout of records held on the data system..

The Long Form costs more because they have to physically find it and make a copy..
It usually contains signatures of the delivery Dr and atleast one parent.

It's there for Obama to release..

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by backinblack
Agreed, but many have TRIED to see the real one but that's covered by National Security..

Maybe Obama's footprint shows he has three toes.

I am not sure what you mean. I have seen the real one. It is online. Are you suggesting that makes it ok to then move on to accepting fake ones like this for something or what?

No one has seen the REAL one.....
Only a short form ot extract as we call it here in Australia..

The REAL one would have the doctors name and signature as the ones of my kids that are all framed and up on my wall..

Only (afaik) in the USA!
To the best of my knowledge, in no other country in the world is the parents' word not accepted as to the birth of the child, and a doctor required to get involved.
That is a complete fake. I know that because my ex was born in Kenya in 1940, and I have seen his birth certificate.
Vicky

Originally posted by 46ACE
Do you have any idea how easy life would be to pass the beer ; backslap and join in the jeers and name calling and say "yup " Simply born in America: freakin' nutty "clowns" ( birthers)?

Show us here how many "long form" birth certificates you have seen from the presidents of this country. Show us howmany public state confirmations of birth can you reference of other presidents. Me? I've seen two short form birth certificates released by Obama and Reagan. I've seen Obama's birth having being state confirmed by Hawaii, cannot say the same for other presidents.

If can show us as to where Obama is being treated differently for eligibility in this country, please, by all means. Because I have not seen any other president in my life go to similar lengths. The truth is, none of us will ever know without a doubt about the eligibility process of our presidents, and if you are to argue that Obama has not gone to sufficient lengths to put your own personal doubts away, it'd be a good opportunity to indicate to us that other presidents have gone further in providing evidence.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

The truth is, none of us will ever know without a doubt about the eligibility process of our presidents,

Oh I don't know about that..Many states are changing nomination requirements that will require more stringent proof..
I say fair enough..
If Obama doesn't want to show his REAL Birth Certificate now then thats his choice.
In 2012 he and every other candidate may not have that choice..
Will be interesting to see what happens.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by 46ACE
Do you have any idea how easy life would be to pass the beer ; backslap and join in the jeers and name calling and say "yup " Simply born in America: freakin' nutty "clowns" ( birthers)?

Show us here how many "long form" birth certificates you have seen from the presidents of this country. Show us howmany public state confirmations of birth can you reference of other presidents. Me? I've seen two short form birth certificates released by Obama and Reagan. I've seen Obama's birth having being state confirmed by Hawaii, cannot say the same for other presidents.

If can show us as to where Obama is being treated differently for eligibility in this country, please, by all means. Because I have not seen any other president in my life go to similar lengths. The truth is, none of us will ever know without a doubt about the eligibility process of our presidents, and if you are to argue that Obama has not gone to sufficient lengths to put your own personal doubts away, it'd be a good opportunity to indicate to us that other presidents have gone further in providing evidence.

I don't know why you think "it'd be a good opportunity" you won't accept the validity of any of the 50 or so pages of various threads on this topic around here.
Simply No other president in my lifetime has been shrouded in such controversy,nor had such ardent unquestioning supporters

added:
.I've never felt there was any question on any other presidents but we've al learned a boatload about the constitution and who verifies shoe sizes of our elected leaders haven't we.I guarantee no other candidate will get on a ballot without a public discourse on his questionable goodies.

I made the post above because I saw Speaker Boehner say "good enough for me" and I had the thought, "screw it.".... just screw it....
no more useless arguing on internet forums against diehards who begin everynew thread with" I don't know what you're all talking about we already saw his Hawaiian birth certificate online." Then we fight tooth and nail10 pages to re-re-re -reintroduce our reasonable doubt


There's enough doubt on both sides I just don't 'care to play in public anymore.
Id rather see a reinvestigation of 911 first. anyway.

If the conservatives in congress are not going to touch it I 'm wasting my time anyway.
Kucinich read the articles of impeachment for cheney and madam Pelosi wouldnt' touch it.

if your own people won't pursue action I'd rather spend my valuable time producing t.v. commercials for Argentinian llama and midget porn anyway...:

Originally posted by 46ACE
I don't know why you think "it'd be a good opportunity" you won't accept the validity of any of the 50 or so pages of various threads on this topic around here.

So what? There’s well over 50 threads on ATS of predictions that never came to be. The number of threads proves what? That the topic generates discussion, but it says nothing about the veracity or the substance behind the accusations, so it doesn’t follow that this alone helps your argument at all.

I think Southern Guardian’s point is well made: “show us as to where Obama is being treated differently for eligibility”

I've never felt there was any question on any other presidents

This is very telling. You admit you don’t care, and probably didn’t even bothered to research, about all the other Presidents, but are raising all these doubts and imagining all these conspiracy theories about Obama, when probably he is the President for whom more or only documentation you have seen.

Originally posted by backinblack
The Hawaian Health department has stated that they do indeed have the FULL BC.
They need Obama's approval to release it..Which he hasn't given..

Yes, they have the full vault birth registration on file. That is how states handle these things. These stay in the vault, that is why a CERTIFICATE IS ISSUED. They do not hand out copies of what is in the vault. They do not hand out what is in the vault. They issue a certificate that confirms it is in the vault. You have seen that certificate. That is how it works in every state for every person. That is how it has worked for every other president. Maybe you need to come up with what is different here?

Most people request the short form simply because that's all they need and it's much cheaper to get..
It is merely a printout of records held on the data system..

That is just a sentence you wholly made up in your own head. You have no idea why most people do anything. The simple fact that many states will not issue a long form proves your idea makes no sense anyway.

The Long Form costs more because they have to physically find it and make a copy..
It usually contains signatures of the delivery Dr and atleast one parent.

Not all long forms are a copy or the original birth registration. Many are a completely different looking form. Where are you getting this from? The information from the original birth registration is the information put on the long form and short form. Short forms contain all the legal proof of birth that the long form does. Things like hospital and doctor do not prove anything.

It's there for Obama to release..

edit on 11-1-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)

Let me know when you get any other president to have his original birth registration released.

reply to post by Sinnthia

Let me know when you get any other president to have his original birth registration released.

And round and round we go..

Nice how you quote much of my post but leave out where I say it's Obama's "choice" whether or not he releases his Long Form..
That choice maybe taken away from "ALL" candidates in some states in 2012..
THAT'S what I said...

There is usually a LOT more information on the long form...
BTW, how do you think home birthers get a BC? Just curious....

reply to post by Sinnthia

That is just a sentence you wholly made up in your own head. You have no idea why most people do anything. The simple fact that many states will not issue a long form proves your idea makes no sense anyway.

Why are you rambling??
We are NOT talking about "many states?..
We are talking about the "Hawaian State" and they have stated they "will" release the Long Form if given approval..

reply to post by Sinnthia


Sinnthia, Sinnthia, Sinnthia... still trying to serve up your kool-aid I see.

Amended certifications of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.

This is straight from the Hawaii Department Of Health Website.

hawaii.gov...

In other words, the "Certification of Live Birth" posted on Obama's website, Factcheck.org and the Daily KOS doesn't prove anything, simply because someone born in a foreign country could file for an amended certification -- click the link, read it for yourself.

The simple fact is, the paper version of this "COLB" has never been examined by any controlling legal authority. The only people to have ever seen this document are Obama's operatives in his campaign and at FactCheck.org.

A Certification of Live Birth is not a Birth Certificate. Obama's sister Maya was born in Jakarta, Indonesia, but Anna Dunham registered her as "born in Honolulu" shortly after her birth. Maya has a State of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth, just like Obama -- proves nothing.

Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii.

books.google.com... e=bl&ots=u1k4r9pMnA&sig=K_5dxGCGShV9jNlFmnz1cenke4s&hl=en&ei=PNDrSeiVKp_htgeen9zUBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct#v=onepage&q=ACT%2096.%20AN%20ACT%20To%20Pro vide%20For%20The%20Issuance%20Of%20Certificates%20Of%20Hawaiian%20Birth&f=false

Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it.

Countless politicians, reporters, bloggers, kool-aid drinking Obuminists and even a few judges have claimed that the State of Hawaii have ascertained that Obama's birth certificate is on file and it proves he was born in Hawaii.

In the Hawaiian Department of Healths news release by Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino he states:

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

There is nothing in that statement that states the birth certificate Hawaii holds was issued by Hawaii. There is nothing that states Obama was born in the State of Hawaii. That statement simply says that Hawaii has the original birth certificate.

It is very obvious, in reading the statement of the Director of Health, that this statement was very carefully worded, which leaves the inquiring mind asking, why? Why Sinnthia?

Originally posted by TexasChem
Amended certifications of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.
This is straight from the Hawaii Department Of Health Website.

You forgot a very important condition on (2). From the Department website: “A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii.”

That’s your claim then? Obama was adopted in Hawaii?

Obama's sister Maya was born in Jakarta, Indonesia, but Anna Dunham registered her as "born in Honolulu" shortly after her birth.

Please provide the evidence that Maya’s Hawaiian birth certificate (or certification of live birth if that makes your more comfortable) says “born in Honolulu.” Thank you.

There is nothing in that statement that states the birth certificate Hawaii holds was issued by Hawaii. There is nothing that states Obama was born in the State of Hawaii. That statement simply says that Hawaii has the original birth certificate. It is very obvious, in reading the statement of the Director of Health, that this statement was very carefully worded, which leaves the inquiring mind asking, why?

In case you are unaware, or perhaps decided not to mention it, the Director of the Department of Health issued two statements, the second of which, answers all the questions you just raised. Here it is—

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.

reply to post by aptness

“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.

If that statement is correct then Dr Fukino was told what to say or is a total fool...

Why? Because even if what he states about Obama's BC is true that would merely show Obama to be a US citizen....."Natural Born" would require the good Dr to have records of his parents bith and citizenship status, which he doesn't have...

Originally posted by backinblack
If that statement is correct then Dr Fukino was told what to say or is a total fool...

I wasn’t expecting birthers to believe otherwise, I was simply setting the record straight as to which was the most recent statement.

"Natural Born" would require the good Dr to have records of his parents bith and citizenship status, which he doesn't have...

Yes, in a birther fantasy world where jurisdiction and allegiance mean the same thing. In the real world and for the Supreme Court however, jurisdiction means jurisdiction. Of course centuries of legal precedent will undoubtedly be inconsequential to your beliefs.