The biggest logical hole in alien influence of ancient society.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AlienView

 

You are right from a point of view involving indecision. I have found, however, that accepting this reality as true and working in it is far more efficient than attempting to pretend it isn't and consider alternatives.

Fact of the matter is, reality is what you make of it. And I've never seen anyone who denies what they see in front of them as reality ever make anything better. Therefore this reality is the best for our current predicament.

You could sell yourself your own used car couldn't you

reply to post by AlienView


In this case it's honestly a democracy. Now this has problems I'll go into in a moment, but for the time being, it's a democracy. You see a tree. I see a tree. A random guy on the street sees a tree. It must be a tree. Someone says they can hear a tree. This person is deemed insane without proof of his reality. That does NOT mean we should throw him in isolation and force him to be like the consensus. This means that he has a right to believe this widely-viewed false reality as long as he is not harmful to others. Should he become harmful, then isolate him.

Reality is consensus. Most people agree it is a tree. We gain much more as a species by accepting this reality: building materials, tree houses, natural sciences, etc etc. Even delicious maple syrup in some cases. Everyone agrees by consensus this must be a tree.

We have claims, but no ways to prove, that this reality is not the full reality. They have the right to believe that. They don't have the right to harm others because of that.

Now problems to carry from this. For example, if someone suddenly sees xrays. Now to his reality, xrays are a clear and visible thing. But we as a species cannot see it. He is not insane if we can see it another war however. This also means Matrix-like situations are possible. But we cannot control that.

In the end, the species functions better by consensus-agreed reality. People who see extensions of that reality are either insane or bless with a beneficial mutation. In either case, unless it can benefit the species, reality is as reality is. What you see is what you get.

reply to post by IKTOMI


don't have a problem with that.

Originally posted by IKTOMI

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AlienView

 

You are right from a point of view involving indecision. I have found, however, that accepting this reality as true and working in it is far more efficient than attempting to pretend it isn't and consider alternatives.

Fact of the matter is, reality is what you make of it. And I've never seen anyone who denies what they see in front of them as reality ever make anything better. Therefore this reality is the best for our current predicament.

You could sell yourself your own used car couldn't you

Used car? How about the flying saucer that landed us here? If we could find that we might be able to transcend this somewhat dismal dimension. I believe Stargate technology [Stargate Sg-1] as speculated by modern science fiction is our best hope.

He who sings to the god a song of Hope shall see his wish accomplished.
-AEschylus of Eleusis

reply to post by AlienView


"All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense."
— Malaclypse the Younger (Principia Discordia, Or, How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her: The Magnum Opiate of Malaclypse the Younger)

reply to post by AlienView


Why do you think we were dropped off here when our evolution shows contrary?

reply to post by Gorman91


I have a problem with evolution or of what appears to be evolution especially when we are talking about humans. I see a serious defect in human nature of which man has not and does not seem capable of correcting [or evolving over]. In a world where technology [yes I will grant technological evolution] has evolved to a point where we could master the planet earth - instead the bestial instinct for war and domination leads us in a direction of war and destruction. There is always a reason for war for humans - a serious defect in human nature. With current technology we could create a world of great splendor but instead we maintain the status-quo of hell for the game of war and profit.

Time is the Father of Miracles. - Harira of Basra

reply to post by AlienView


That's kind of biased, because you assume those flaws are bad. A perfect symphony made from electronic sources is not as good as a faulty symphony made from human hands.

Simple put, human perfection is... Imperfection.

In addition, evolution's proof is all around us. The best examples are the forced evolution we have done to our fellow animals. And btw, I think that stands as a testament to our inner goodness. If we were as you say, dogs would not have evolved into emotionally dependent creatures that despise death and destruction.

We see evolution even in the last 100 years. Sea shells compensating for aggressive invasive species, flies breaking into subspecies as new fruit that blooms at different time get planted by us, and they wake up earlier, having different mating seasons from their cousins.

reply to post by Gorman91


I dont think we were brought here recently. What i think is that these AA tampered with our DNA and gave us a bump in evolution lets look at it this way..

First we were Apes, relying on instinct then we evolved into cave men, then at the end of the Cave Men era which ended like 8000-7000 years ago we leave our caves and we start creating Civilizations, Tracking the stars, bulding huge buildings for Gods that some are aligned with the stars..How can we change that much in such a short time. It is IMPOSSIBLE for such a bump to happen in this short period of time. How can we explain this but with a simple Theory of 'People who may be thousands of years more advanced came here and helped up'. I mean its not impossible.

reply to post by ObvTruth


There are other, far more plausible, possibilities.

Have you ever heard of a prion? It's like a virus, only it's not alive. Viruses aren't either, but this is even less. It's basically a damaged protein sequence that the body adds to itself. With similar species, it can cause problems when they eat each other.

For example, the smallest change in the proteins of the brain. from a man eating a neanderthal, can cause massive damages. Or, it could create massive changes for the good. It's pure chance.

You see, the problem with what you said is that it wasn't that linear. Cavemen, and apemen, all existed, and while humans did. It wasn't a jump. It was moment, and one species got ahead.

What this change came from could not be known from when and where. Prions, however, seem more likely. As we know humans had cannibalistic tendencies back then.

Then again, maybe we are both right. Maybe an alien came by to observe us, and we killed and ate him, giving us a prion that made us smarter.

of cause with prions a continuous consumption is required until it integrates the very genome.

one culprit not a prion doesn't make us smarter just crazierBorna virus just a little factoid for fun.

my focus on the AAH has to do with things cannot be explained by fossils such as

why have humans from their earliest known beginnings demonstrated an 'alienation' from , the only way I can put it is, Life on Earth?

why are we so physically different from other 'primates?

someone brought up our long hair which is something defies any evolutionary explanation and I wonder about

why the obsession with sun worship and astrology/astronomy which is a characteristic of the oldest human societies that we know about and appeared full blown and very well developed and only decreased with time instead of the other way around

and what motivates the TPTB to such excesses of mass destruction that it ALMOST appears suicidal?

I don't by any means think that every ancient site or every artifact is alien in origin in fact very few are but the ones that are can't simply be shrugged away because we don't want to think about how they fit into the puzzle

I disagree with the "truth' being boring. The truth is more often ugly,terrifying and painful,THE TRUTH HURTS
the only thing we have left after seeing the truth is the knowledge that after you realize it and survive it nothing can scare you anymore.

here is some Enoch that caught my eye The 'LORD' sent Enoch to the the WATCHERS that defiled themselves with women, to inform them that a sentence of damnation had been passed upon them.

the terrified WATCHERS them sent Enoch back to 'LORD' but before Enoch could go he had a 'vision' that basically he should not bother because there would be no forgiveness or mercy to the 200

the word of GOD to the WATCHERS through Enoch was this

"You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth."


to paraphase the WATCHERS were to proud of their knowledge and didn't know what they didn't know.They used their incomplete knowledge to corrupt and destroy . Turns out they weren't as all powerful in their claim on the Earth as they imagined.

GORMAN I think you should read this book

reply to post by MrsBlonde


In terms of prions, most do cause insanity and death. But the point is that it affects the brain. Anything that affects something can do it for good or for worse. It's pure chance. Of course, the chances of good are nearly nothingness. But then again, that's why evolution takes so long.

In terms of our "alieness" to life on Earth, you are correct that we are like that today. After all, we are the only species ever, in the history of life on Earth, to literally be incompatible with the local environment. We have to build out own environments. However, you should know that this hasn't been so for our entire existence. We looked, and acted, close to human while still being compatible with the environment millions of years ago. We did not have any sort of problems with it. And when we evolved into humans, we continued being compatible with the environment. So what went wrong?

Two things. The first is us, as a species, evolved from desert life. While our upright ancestors may have been jungle creatures, the human species itself evolved from living in the desert. As such, we are not exactly compatible with other environments. We are fitted for dry, plains, hunter-gatherer life style. This is why you see humans so well adapted to these environments... at least before industrialization. Which leads me to my second point. Technology. Technology is in contrast to 3.5 billion years of evolution. Sure, some animals make due with spears and rock weapons. But they do it out of instinct. Take a New Caledonia Crow chick and dump it in South America, and it will instinctively use tools. Humans? We won't until it's the best way. The crow will use the tool even if there's a better way. The human will use the best way, if that's a tool, we will use tools.

These two things are what make us alien to the rest of life on Earth. And that eventually lead to industry, and industry, too, is against evolution. Evolution would have us do it ourselves. We, as a species, will do what we please.

why are we so physically different from other 'primates?

Well really we're not. In fact, we're not even that different from the first barrel chested animals over 300 million years ago, before the dinosaurs.

someone brought up our long hair which is something defies any evolutionary explanation and I wonder about

Well it's not really all that special. Through our own forced evolution of dogs, we've managed to create the same traits. One would assume with some logic that it was a desirable trait back then.

why the obsession with sun worship and astrology/astronomy which is a characteristic of the oldest human societies that we know about and appeared full blown and very well developed and only decreased with time instead of the other way around

It's a blaring ball of light and heat in the sky. It's in our nature to be inquisitive. And indeed, everything we did not have the ability to look at and observe directly, we feared, worshiped, or said our gods were from there. Along with the sun and stars, sea worship, swamp worship, and mountain/volcano worship are just as old.

and what motivates the TPTB to such excesses of mass destruction that it ALMOST appears suicidal?

Our ancestors exterminated the Neanderthal and many other species. We are a violent species.

I don't by any means think that every ancient site or every artifact is alien in origin in fact very few are but the ones that are can't simply be shrugged away because we don't want to think about how they fit into the puzzle

Well there are many ways to explain it. We know, for example, that the Egyptians would trace the star's paths and literally use them as laser guidance systems for construction projects. Same with the sun. I know there's that whole bit about the pyramids and Orion being aligned 100,000 years ago, but we don't know if that's the result of a micro-mistake, meant to align them to 14,000 years ago, or just 4,000 years ago. Not to mention the Egyptians only build pyramids for about 200 or so years out of the over 3000 years of their civilization's existence. They got bored with the design and started looking at new things. The fact that your marvel at their preschool art doesn't mean they did the same.

I disagree with the "truth' being boring. The truth is more often ugly,terrifying and painful,THE TRUTH HURTS the only thing we have left after seeing the truth is the knowledge that after you realize it and survive it nothing can scare you anymore.

Well that would be why I doubt alien stories. I mean of course UFOs exist, automated probes from countless peoples would come and observe countless planets, document them, and then move along. But I don't believe in contact.

here is some Enoch that caught my eye The 'LORD' sent Enoch to the the WATCHERS that defiled themselves with women, to inform them that a sentence of damnation had been passed upon them.

This actually makes sense to me. The Nephelim did those things. However, The book of Enoch was written after the bible was created. The older parts of the book of Enoch date to after the old testament was made, and the newer parts of the book of Enoch date to after the New Testament. Due to this fact, I do not consider the book of Enoch as legitimate. Still, the Book of Enoch is quoted rarely in the Bible, and therefore it must have some interesting half truths within.

That said, I have had dreams that are very similar to what you describe. I invite you to PM me because I am honestly interested in making an animation about the "watchers" or Nephelim.

What is interesting I will note on the Nephelim and what you mentioned, is that it is hinted at, but not stated, that the Nephelim have no salvation.That when they die, they will not be raised. That they are desperate to keep alive and as such will do whatever it takes to stay alive, because of their great fear of death. It is also theorized that the Nephelim are demons that Jesus fought on Earth. It's implied in the Old Testament that they somehow survived the Flood, and were no longer on the Earth, but returned soon after.

Many mysteries, but no clear answers. Very interesting though!

You are wrong about Enoch ,Enoch is the source document for for the bible along with other Sumerian writings

also it has a flavor? that is unique unto itself possibly because it actually was written by someone?



anyway, it further says that GOD pronounced that the Nephilim would be dead in flesh ,since their spirits cannot be made nonexistent they wander the earth as 'evil spirits' why ?because they are from here! we are stuck with them.As for the Watcher fathers they were imprisoned somewhere for 70 generations. these generations cannot be since the first microbe floated in the ocean ,it means from the days of the events described, that is the incarceration of the Watchers.

I read it so much because Enoch said he was given this info to inform a generation in the far distant future from him.
so far that he couldn't even comprehend why it would matter or feel any interest in the people for whom it was intended.I think we are that generation, until now this would not have made much sense to anyone reading it good thing it was carefully preserved for us.
as for all the rest the oddness of us, our discomfort with our environment and so forth it makes sense if we are genetically engineered in ancient times by a race foreign to Earth

they programed us to want to worship them and give them wealth like we breed cute lap dogs.

I don't just refer to Enoch alone when it comes to the AAH but his testimony and lots of other Mesopotamian writings as well the Vedas of ancient India all written around the same time frame all seem to recount different aspects of the same story.

and we now people are left with ruins , which we cannot build
religions from which we can't break free
and a shadowy hierarchy of evil that never stops trying to kill us and every living thing on Earth
and seemingly no ability to learn from our mistakes and apply the wisdom of the past
damn strange if you think about it

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I merely point out that if we are going to talk about Ancient Aliens there deeds and motives and technology we have to start with the only eyewitness accounts we have ,Enoch a Sumerian man and a scribe ,apparently for ,the 'Watchers' who says he was shown all this and he understood what was shown.Adding or subtracting from what is known only makes for confusion and we can't get to the truth by making some stuff up about them or assuming anything that we have no evidence for.

I suppose the Book of Enoch is a reference.

However, how do you dispose of the fact that it was written a thousand years after Genesis? I mean, unless you really think Enoch wrote it, this would all just be an embellishment on the already canonized scripture that preceded it, to my mind.

Harte

reply to post by MrsBlonde


I'm sorry, but the Book of Enoch is a two-part book series, half written during or after the Babylonian Exile, and half Written during the diaspora. Of course that doesn't answer how long it was verbal and unwritten, but even one generation of it not being written within the generation of the first one who spoke it would so unrecognizably corrupt the text that it would be nothing like the original.

All of ancient texts have a flavor of sorts. Each one of the gospels does. Each one of the old testament books do. Even the two stories of creation within Genesis. Different people write differently. Thus different flavors. That's also, btw, why a lot of Islam is more unilateral. It was written down just a generation after Muhammad died, thus it was more unilateral, and thus why Muslims are less diverse in opinion. All flavors, because all different writers. That doesn't make any one right or wrong.

anyway, it further says that GOD pronounced that the Nephilim would be dead in flesh ,since their spirits cannot be made nonexistent they wander the earth as 'evil spirits' why ?because they are from here! we are stuck with them.As for the Watcher fathers they were imprisoned somewhere for 70 generations. these generations cannot be since the first microbe floated in the ocean ,it means from the days of the events described, that is the incarceration of the Watchers.

That assumes it isn't corrupted from unknown generations of oral tradition. The Nephelim are dead in flesh, this is why the literal translation of the word is "the dead ones", among other things. The creators of the Nephelim would just be some other form of life. Possibly the sons of God if one reads Genesis one way, but I don't necesarily agree to that.

You should also recognize that time is not linear for God. How can it be? The two stories of creation in genesis imply that one is from God's perspective and the other from Man's. Clearly they are out of order. The only solution is that God does not go through time linearly. It's more like a big blob of nothingness, where time has no relevance. As such, God could have created the nephelim, or the creators of the nephelim, whenever he damn well please, even billions of years ago. For him, days. He just traveled back in time and made them. For us, who knows how long.

I read it so much because Enoch said he was given this info to inform a generation in the far distant future from him.

The same is true of most any generation. However, we do not know if it is true or not. Muhammad said the same, One is right, not both. I choose neither as a Christian. That doesn't make them completely wrong. just things to consider as lost information of things that do not matter for my own salvation.

so far that he couldn't even comprehend why it would matter or feel any interest in the people for whom it was intended.I think we are that generation, until now this would not have made much sense to anyone reading it good thing it was carefully preserved for us.

Well that's what I'm saying. It wasn't. The book of Enoch has literally been in the hands of so many people that we cannot tell who it's real creator is. It's therefore unreliable. At least with books like the Koran and the Bible, the time it was in oral form was during the life times of those who wrote it and those who spoke it. For th Book of Enoch, we simply do not know how many generations of time have gone by in oral form. Too much chance for corruption.

as for all the rest the oddness of us, our discomfort with our environment and so forth it makes sense if we are genetically engineered in ancient times by a race foreign to Earth

Or, we just evolved in a location unnatural to the rest of the planet, like deserts.

they programed us to want to worship them and give them wealth like we breed cute lap dogs.

A robot could do the same without free will. And God knows we don't give dogs free will.

I don't just refer to Enoch alone when it comes to the AAH but his testimony and lots of other Mesopotamian writings as well the Vedas of ancient India all written around the same time frame all seem to recount different aspects of the same story.

All of which were oral for generations, and cannot honestly be taken seriously. Roman gods have more credibility because they wrote down things. Please also explain what is AAH?

and we now people are left with ruins , which we cannot build religions from which we can't break free and a shadowy hierarchy of evil that never stops trying to kill us and every living thing on Earth and seemingly no ability to learn from our mistakes and apply the wisdom of the past damn strange if you think about it

No, we actually can build any ruin on Earth, and many of us have broken free of ancient religions, or looked past the cultural lies placed from the actual truth within the texts. We are not ruled by some shadow Hierarchy. Governments come and go. This one has a mean streak and will be eliminated in due time. Why, even the United States Government has collapsed quite a number of times besides the Civil war. In each time, a new organization of people with their own beliefs takes over after. And we can learn from our mistakes. We simply choose to challenge that we can repeat them.