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The biggest logical hole in alien influence of ancient society.

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posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:19 PM
reply to post by antibren

Yes. My dad did. Admittedly it wasn't so good an idea, but all was well in the end.

Yes, I do think it was comprehensible. When Neanderthals first met man, the range of technological differences was massive. What happened? Neanderthals adopted our tools and went their merry way onward. Humanity eventually wiped them out though.

When the first long range planes flew over pacific islanders who never saw such things, they did not think them gods nor special. They tried to build a plane themselves, failed, waited for their return, then got the technology themselves.

Quite clearly, we can comprehend it.

reply to post by TruthWizard

Something would survive. Anything would. Not just pyramids and other stuff. And we know pyramids were made by men and that our evolution is perfectly natural. That's why there's over half a dozen human evolutions before us. Most of which we drove into extinction ourselves.

reply to post by Wiseupall

Clearly not. We needed no jump start. 50,000 years ago WE jump started Neanderthals. Did not help them. They went extinct. There is clear mathematical contingency in our development of civilization.

reply to post by ScepticalBeliever

If they don't think like us, we would not have build things they told us to, because would not comprehend it. This is evident by the fact that the most out-there religions never succeed nor build huge monuments. They fall to the dust. Only the most generic religions succeed.

reply to post by cluckerspud

We were able to cut rocks and build going back to before our species existed. The first species to do so was over 2 million years ago. Judging from their lack of advancement beyond that, they did that themselves. Civilizations built bigger the more people and strength they got. No aliens are needed. That's my argument. They are not needed. SO why does the theory persist?

reply to post by pinealexplorer

Dinosaurs died because of many reasons. But the fact is that they were beginning to evolve into mammals themselves. fur (feathers), warm blooded, bigger brains. No need to clean the slate. The extinction did not clear the way for mammals. Mammals were already picking up on the evolutionary stage around the world, with mammals as large as ponies out near Australia that ate dinosaurs. And after the extinction, dinosaurs got smarter via birds. The Crow is the 3rd smartest animal on Earth. More signs to no need to clean the slate.

Harvest souls? Have you seen the Sun? Not only are souls unobservable if they even exist, but such energy would be lost to the Earth. That's barely even 1% of the energy of 1% of the sun. If you want energy, Suck up the Sun. Build a dyson sphere. Clearly if you have the power to manipulate entire ecosystems you can do that too.

What technology? Where's the stainless steel remains? The vaults underground? The radiant energy of nuclear power, so many more. The only remains are or bones, which they themselves show no modification done to other than evolution.

Only other life forms? We already know of at least 3 other worlds, all in the same solar system, that could sustain life. Not to mention our own solar system that could sustain life. Shall I list them? Europe, Titan, Mars, Venus, just to name a few where life could scratch off a living. The chances that we are the only other intelligence is so remotely low it's a joke.

Bacteria? Hell that's the only thing that makes sense. From a purely evolutionary perspective, we're the only species with exponential growth. You're more likely to find linear-advancing aliens with Neanderthal intelligence than something like us. But you'd still have proof of observation. Just think. How much space junk have we left on Mars and Venus and our own planet? Something would be there.

Monuments? Not likely. You want a monument, you write it down. Ideas last longer than buildings.

If they are still here, why risk it. Micro cameras, or large human robots would work better.
reply to post by debris765nju

Cool Story Bro. pics or it didn't happen.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:21 PM
my current idea as to why the let us take the planet over, is that we, the human race, are merely one element of what they are truly after, to create/alter a biospheare/gaia that fits their desire. so yes they could replace us with better things from our pov, but doing so would be like using zero friction oil in an engine built friction producing lubricant

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:22 PM
Extraterrestrials did not teach ancient men how to carve stone and build simple shelters, but they did teach them the advanced geometry and mathematics that was necessary to build megalithic structures with extraordinary precision. They also needed assistance to move and assemble stones that weighed anywhere from 100 to 10,000 tons, which cannot possibly be done with primitive methods. They needed guidance and a boost in knowledge to do these things, which is why they idolized and worshiped "gods" (extraterrestrials) as their masters.

Aliens had good reasons for not giving them advanced technology right then and there. Firstly, the technology belongs to them and probably costs too much just to be given away as gifts. Secondly, primitive people would not understand the technology and it would take a very long time to teach them how to use it, but they would also need to be taught how everything else works in order to even barely comprehend it. Lastly, it would be like handing a nuclear reactor to a prehistoric man and expecting him to learn and understand its functions within his lifetime. I'm sure he could eventually understand it within his lifetime, but I'm sure aliens are impatient like humans and would rather not waste their lifetimes trying to explain something to a primitive man. It was just best for them to occasionally boost our evolution, that way everything sinks in through time.
edit on 1/8/2011 by Condemned0625 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:29 PM
reply to post by Aliensun

If they loved us, Wanted us to succeed, they wouldn't touch us. Interaction leads to destruction. Always. Hell, I'll use a little sci fi for an example. The Krogan in a game called Mass Effect were interacted for the same reason. Desire for peace and love. The results? The Species refused this. To primitive. Rebelled. Wared. Eventually those parading for peace chose to unleashe a bioweapon that made them sterile. Problem solved.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:36 PM
reply to post by Condemned0625

Yes, it can be done with primitive methods. And in some places, are still done.

Geometry? Math? There is evident that the first city, Ur, had the math for such things. Long before the pyramids nor anything else. We also know for a fact that the ancient Greeks knew very complex geometries.

Also no offense, but geometry is a sign of primitive thought. Modern architects no longer use ratios nor geometries. They embody ideas and complex thoughts with architectural forms. That's why we don't build Greek temples anymore. It's not that impressive. With calculus and complex math, we make REALLY cool stuff that's not just a big triangle.

Which BTW, that big triangle? There's 200 years of Pyramid evolution before the 3 big ones of Giza that prove it was not simply given. We learned it ourselves.
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posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:38 PM
One of the ideas in the Ancient Astronaut theory is that we were genetically modified to be a slave race. I think this would satisfy your question, because you would teach a slave to work and respect you, but you wouldn't teach them anything that would be unnecessary to your task, and you certainly wouldn't teach them anything that would promote independence and freedom.

Many theorists also claim that the ancient constructions show craftsmanship that is too precise for the tools believed to have been used back then, citing advanced technology being responsible for such tasks. I think this fits better into the slave theory rather than ancient aliens trying to help guide our evolution in the right direction.

The slave idea and worship as gods go hand in hand. Ancient man is clearly going to identify them as supernatural, and aren't likely to rebel if they believe they are gods with magical powers.

They probably didn't look like us. They may have been able to alter their appearance to look like us, though. Who knows?

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:43 PM
reply to post by MrAndy

Robots blow up that whole idea. Why would you use us? Robots beat us in every way. Speed, efficiency, intelligence, etc etc.

Precision? Craft? Water is as good as a laser at finding its won level, and following the stars draws a precise line. In fact that's how we learned the pyramids were built. Not to mention the precision we see is not seen in the same society's earlier works. Zoser's pyramid is crap. The Fail Pyramid at Medium is ultra crap, The North Pyramid is better, and Giza is the best. There is evolution. They did not get that craft and precision from no where. They learned it. Not to mention that once they made the best, they stopped. They moved on to new things. Which, FYI, show even more precision and craft than the pyramids. In as much as the Mexican pyramids show further craft and Precision than those well-cut H-shapes in S America.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:50 PM
reply to post by Gorman91

Doesn't matter. Your explanation is only theorized. There is still plenty of documented evidence of extraterrestrial visitations and intervention, all carved in stone. Images of spacecraft descending from the sky, alien astronauts that wore spacesuits, grays, aerial warfare in the sky, large deposits of leftover radiation in ancient cities and much more. I was very skeptical of it in the past, but now it's way too obvious to be dismissed and denied. It's certainly not a coincidence that the first transistor was "invented" in 1947 right after the Roswell crash. Colonel Philip Corso was the one with the assignment to present the alien technologies to major corporations for reverse engineering, which soon led to the human versions of fiber optics and night vision prototypes just a few years later.

I don't need people to attempt to rationalize it all away with what they think is true. We've never been alone, we're not alone and we'll never be alone. The universe is a playground not only for us, but many others as well.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:56 PM
reply to post by Gorman91

The best way to show how alien influence was not around for ancient society is placing yourself in their shoes. Personally, I don't know how to build anything. The easiest thing for me to build is a pyramid. If I build a modern house I have no idea how to get the roof to stay on. But with a pyramid you wouldn't really need to worry about it because each layer sustains the next until the last block.

That is how I know that aliens didn't influence the ancients.

Of course, now we know to use wood, cement and bricks. That wasn't an option back than so they stuck with large stones and piled them on top of each other.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:05 PM
reply to post by Condemned0625

Many of your claims I've seen no evidence for, nor do they mean direct contact. A fight above our skies could be a broader war. We would be but mere pacific islanders in the war between Japan and America in WW2. Observers. Influence from that? perhaps.

Visitors does not mean contact, nor does it mean influence. The fact remains that pretty much every claim of influence has no evidence towards it. because then we would not see an evolution of structure. Influence's only slight proof comes from a sudden, unexpected, jump in technology or ideas. Earth doesn't have such things. Most anything has a history and evolution to it that lead to it. That's the thing. I have no doubt people from out there have crashed here, observed here, fought here, etc etc. We're an interesting solar system. But the fact remains that this does not mean aliens came down to give us tools and ideas. gods are always in our image, indicating we created them. And structures and tools have evolution to them. Indicating we created them.

And just putting it out there. The transistor isn't an isolated incident. It too has a history, an evolution, and a development. And you have to assume that aliens with warp drive would still be using transistors. And that they just happened to be right in the right place to prove that evolution to be false.

Its no different than creationism. of course you don't need any proof. God did it, or the aliens in this place. Aliens of the gap are no different than a god of the gaps. All gaps are filled, and then there's no room.
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posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:26 PM
The thing is. If aliens contacted us and educated us, why don't we have buildings like Ali Rahim, or Tom Wiscombe? Buildings designed with formula and technology simply not available until the last 10-20 years? Buildings with ideas and function and form. No. Instead we get engineered mega structures that are the most generic shapes out there. This proves either aliens have no art or complex thought, meaning they'd just use us for soldiers and not build anything, or that they simply never came.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:31 PM
reply to post by Gorman91

No, no, no. Aliens do NOT disprove evolution and this is nothing like creationism. There is a sudden leap from Cro-Magnon to Homo sapiens sapiens that took place within 100 years. Cro-Magnon cannot evolve into Homo sapiens sapiens within 100 years. There was obviously a genetic enhancement and there is evidence for the claims I'm making.

I know we began as apes and that's a fact that cannot be disproved by anyone. We have evolved faster than any other species on the planet. Go watch Ancient Aliens or better yet, go watch all of the relevant videos in my favorites section on YouTube and then read some of the declassified Majestic 12 documents that were recovered from the national archives.

You either haven't done nearly enough research or you're just dismissing it entirely because it isn't compatible with what you believe to be true. I base my information on evidence, not blind belief like you suggested with your creationism analogy. Maybe you don't think any of the findings or government knowledge is evidence, but that doesn't mean it isn't. Your standard of evidence is not the standard of evidence.

In addition, just because you claim that pyramids are generic shapes doesn't necessarily mean they are. Aliens can construct spacecraft using the simplest shapes and make them fly better than a modern jet. Tell me that's not extraordinary because I certainly think it is.
edit on 1/8/2011 by Condemned0625 because: Providing link.

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posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by Gorman91

There is a sudden leap from Cro-Magnon to Homosapiens that took place within 100 years. Cro-Magnon cannot evolve into Homosapiens within 100 years. There was obviously a genetic enhancement and there is evidence for the claims I'm making.

Why would he? Cro-Magnon was already Homo Sapiens.

That's not just ignorance, that's the finest home-made befuddlement.


posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:41 PM
reply to post by Harte

I meant Homo sapiens sapiens. Cro-Magnon were the first early Homo sapiens, but they suddenly leaped to Homo sapiens sapiens within 100 years, which doesn't happen in natural evolution.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:44 PM
reply to post by Condemned0625

Non-biological evolution. Not biological evolution. It is clear mankind evolved here and aliens did not tamper with anything.

And no, Cro Magnum WAS Man. The appropriate term would be proto-Caucasians.

Mankind physically evolved 200,000 years ago, and then their brains kept evolving until 50,000 years ago, Then Mankind pretty much either out competed or exterminated all th other species of humans and near-human species.

There is no sudden jump. Cro Magnum man is just the name for the first modern humans that left Africa and went north. They likely mixed with proper Caucasians from North India that migrated into Europe.

We did not begin from Apes. We began from a proto-ape species that left the trees.

We have not evolved faster than any other species on the planet. We are still witnessing evolution now. New species are born every few centuries. Example: apple farmers caused flies to wake up earlier in hibernation so they no longer mate with the other flies that still sleep. Their biology is already changing. And I don't have sources, but I've been told some species of mosquito have already adapted to subways and can no longer live on the surface.

There have been plenty of faster evolutions then ourselves. Our biology has fundamentally remained the same for many millions of years. The first barrel Chested proto-mammal dates to before the dinosaurs evolved. The only thing that's changed for us is brain capacity, pelvic bones, backbone, and thumbs. Most of everything else is fundamentally indifferent from millions of years ago.

My standard of evidence is if the glove fits, wear it. Which is more likely: Aliens zooming down to help a single species, or people inventing stuff. Well. Do we invent stuff today, or do aliens come down and give it to us. Clearly we invent stuff and this has happened for some time. So our ancestors invented stuff to.

Have you any actual evidence to support your claims? Because without it, it is belief.

I have done my research. Your cro magnum claim proves it. Because anybody with some knowledge knows we cannot detect changes with a 200 year range that far back. 1000 at minimum maybe, on a lucky day with properly preserved stuff.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Condemned0625

No, no, no. Aliens do NOT disprove evolution and this is nothing like creationism. There is a sudden leap from Cro-Magnon to Homo sapiens sapiens that took place within 100 years. Cro-Magnon cannot evolve into Homo sapiens sapiens within 100 years.

I don't know much about this area so am wondering : what evidence is there to show that we went through that leap in 100 years?

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:49 PM
reply to post by JoseChung

None. We haven't physically changed in 200,000 years. before Cro Magnum ever lived. Our brains changed a bit 50,000 years ago, and that happened over a period of some thousands of years. And that's because the world was dying all around us. Adapt or die.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:52 PM
here's my theory
the ETs did not live on this planet so much,they aren't able to survive here for very long because interplanetary travel isn't like on Star Trek where you just go to other planets take off your helmet and wow it's just like Earth same atmosphere same gravity what ever

That's why they need us they want resources they a creature that is adapted to live here why not use robots? WASTEFUL you have to build and repair robots and that takes resources.

but if you have self replicating slaves that grow and manufacture their own resources weeeeellll you're in business

oh and we are perfectly capable of grasping their technology but they don't want us to have it because they wanted us to stay slaves
there is evidence that they left the Nazis found it and used it to makes all kinds of super weapons and vil powered craft and maybe a stargate
governments and corporations even now hunt out ancient artifacts and supress tecnology that they think it is not in their best interest to have

something bad happened and they left maybe they had a war and then left and then we gradualy lost the knowledge we did have Some how their civilization of which we were a part died out leaving us to fight our way back to reason out of a dark age

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:55 PM
reply to post by Gorman91

To be honest, even though that sounds a lot more likely, I'm still keeping an open mind as I just don't know. Pointing back to a difference in 100 years seems like a really short gap though, and am wondering what theories you'd have to read/listen to to believe it.

The main thing that surprises me now that I've been here a bit is how many people around here actually have solid beliefs about so many evolution/alien/ufo theories.
edit on 8-1-2011 by JoseChung because: added

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:58 PM
reply to post by MrsBlonde

If you have to build and repair robots, you're doing it wrong. nanite-based robots consume resources on their own and can deposit them where you need them. Indeed that does make sense. But robots would still be better. Please do not subscribe to the old 50s view of robots. A robot does not need repairs nor cost a whole lot if properly built to survive. And trust me, building one is a lot better than waiting thousands of years of repairs. Some sci fi stories even deal with the whole resource issues with something called "planet cracking". Basically a massive mine ship that plucks up entire mountains and consumes them. What's not needed is returned. Most efficient method. Entire solar systems of resources eaten up in a few decades.

Why even bother? If you want resources. You eat up planets and asteroids. hell, why would you do it here> You can get mountains of resources from other planets. Mars is rich in nutrients in its soil, and Jupiter and Saturn are literally fueling stations.

You don't need self replicating slaves when you have nanites that do the same as needed. And you don't need them at all with planet crackers.

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