SarahPac Called for Ariz. Congresswoman to be 'Targeted'

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by Darce

 

I posted this in the other thread but... What if she actually did die, as the earlier reports indicated? There could be a body double undergoing plastic surgery now in order to take her place.

Stranger things have happened in politics.

Why? What's the purpose? So she would change her political views and vote differently? It would be so much simpler to get her in a compromising situation and blackmail her.

But I guess that's not as sexy as "Method to control politician - bullet to head combined with body double".

See how silly that sounds?

This is why I'm sick of the united states of America. Here the government is so corrupt that politicians order hits on others! I am very glad I am learning Japanese so I can get the hell out of here to a much better and purer country where politicians do not steep to such dishonorable measures.
Think about it, have you heard of something like this happening in Japan? I think not! In Japan people have codes of honor and chivalry is not dead. If a politician does not like another's policies they own up to it and challenge the other one! In fact, many Japanese politicians in the past have even killed themselves rather than let their enemy dishonorably assassinate them!

Of course there needs to be civility. However, that "rally" was a publicity stunt for Comedy Central.

I, too, want personal responsibility for one's actions. That is why i blame only the shooter. Not Sarah Palin, who was thousands of miles away and had never spoken to the shooter. The shooter didn't even like Palin. He was a very left leaning person who, if like other left leaning people, would have absolutely despised Palin. Therefore, i would say beyond certainty that her graphic had nothing whatsoever to do with those events.

I, too, want people to employ civility. That is why i find it so utterly disgusting that someone would waste time blaming Palin for a metaphor which the shooter, in all likelyhood, never even saw.

You see, i want what you claim to want.

Yes, we can blame the shooter absolutely. He is a nutter no doubt.

Regardless of how far away Sarah Palin was or whether she had spoken to the shooter or not is not the issue.
The problem that some of us have is the type of metaphors that Sarah Palin uses when speaking to her supporters.

Unfortunately there are members of society that are easily whipped into a frenzy by this type of rhetoric and it only takes one looney to take her literally.
Not that I'm saying this is the case but who knows at this stage.
I'm sure there are more appropriate metaphors that can be used with less inciteful language.

That applies to ALL sides of politics.

These people are representing you no matter what your political persuasion, make sure they do so in a manner that is morally correct.


Pull them up on it and demand the same standards from your opponents!



Just as a side note,

Many years ago in Australia a leader of the Liberal party, Alexander Downer at a formal dinner, was promoting the Liberal party slogan "The Things That Matter", Downer then joked that the party's domestic violence policy would accordingly be named "The Things That Batter", referring to abusive husbands.
This was one of several along the same theme of "The things that..." but was by far the most criticised.
Needless to say he lasted 8 months as the leader of his party...

It's not what you say it's how you say it.

Originally posted by Cirno
This is why I'm sick of the united states of America. Here the government is so corrupt that politicians order hits on others! I am very glad I am learning Japanese so I can get the hell out of here to a much better and purer country where politicians do not steep to such dishonorable measures.
Think about it, have you heard of something like this happening in Japan? I think not! In Japan people have codes of honor and chivalry is not dead. If a politician does not like another's policies they own up to it and challenge the other one! In fact, many Japanese politicians in the past have even killed themselves rather than let their enemy dishonorably assassinate them!

Yeah, the Japanese are so mellow...



I found an article where a Japanese pol was stabbed to death, also.

Real peaceful...NOT.

Originally posted by searching4truth
I do not blame Palin for the murders. I do blame her, and others, for trying to create a climate of rabid fear.

That's really where I am. And it's not a right/left thing. The political atmosphere is more heated than I've ever seen it. Earlier in the year (2010) there were windows broken and slurs thrown about, and the politicians just FED on it especially Palin. She is the most rhetoric-filled politician of our time. She associated Obama with terrorism at her campaign rallies and crossed the line of decency (IMO) at many of her talks. The people were ROWDY! Calling out, "Terrorist! Kill him"! Palin revels in stuff like that. She LOVES to pump up the negative emotions against her opponents. I wouldn't doubt that she HOPED for something like this to happen as a result of her attack on the left. But we simply cannot make that association at this time.

I'm not saying that she is responsible for the shooting or doesn't have the RIGHT to do what she's doing. But I do think it's highly irresponsible for a (supposed) gun enthusiast to be placing cross hairs on people she clearly wants "taken out" as her opposition, along with all her talk of reloading and such. If she had placed one over the president, it would be considered a threat to the POTUS and she would be in prison. She would never have done that.

Here are some things we have to remember:

We don't know if JLL ever even saw that map or heard of Sarah Palin. So, I will reserve judgment.
JLL is insane.
He visited Giffords BEFORE Palin was even on the scene (in 2007).
He had a letter in his home from Giffords.
Giffords subscribed to JLL's YouTube channel.
Giffords was convenient to JLL. He lived in her district.

All of these lead me to believe that there's a lot more to this than we are aware of. Blaming Palin is very tempting, but right now, Palin's CROSS HAIRS (not bulls eyes) have absolutely nothing to do with JLL's murder. We don't have enough information to make that connection.

But if nothing else, this event has highlighted the violent political atmosphere we're living in today.

Palin's staffer says it wasn't crosshairs, but surveyors symbols on map How stupid do they think people are?

"We never ever, ever intended it to be gun sights," said Rebecca Mansour, who works for Palin's political action committee, in a interview with conservative radio host Tammy Bruce.

"It's a surveyor's symbol," Bruce suggested. Mansour agreed, adding that the graphic was contracted out to a professional and approved without much thought. "We never imagined, it never occurred to us that anybody would consider it violent," she said. It was simply "crosshairs that you would see on a map."

There is "nothing irresponsible about our graphic," Mansour added.

If they thought it was innocent, why did they remove it and why are they lying about it now?

.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

She's lying because she isn't the happy polite honest hockey mom that she tried to portray, the fact of the matter is she the two faced pot stirring mean mom (without a spine). People like to pretend that she was this pretty Alaskan princess/governor without a spot.

The fact of the matter is she was a disgraced politician, did we forget about the investigation related her wrongful termination of her brother in law, misuse of state services (state police), and she still has yet to cooperate with that investigation as to submitting her emails (both for legal and historical purposes). If it were possible, I dislike her even more now.

IF the symbols on her map were surveyors symbols, why was this not clarified when she was called out on it in the past. Her team has officially and publicly called us all stupid, and there is nothing I hate more than someone insulting my intelligence with a lame and obvious lie.

We have no shortage of crazy in this country, and we need intelligent, level headed, cooperative law makers to get us out of this mess that we are in. We do not need talking head, pot stirrers, that offer nothing but emotion. We need solutions.

reply to post by searching4truth



While you are right, don't limit it to just Palin

People need to turn their backs on all D's and R's, too. THAT is where the problem is. All these harpies trying to latch on to power so they can milk it for financial gain.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by searching4truth

 

While you are right, don't limit it to just Palin

People need to turn their backs on all D's and R's, too. THAT is where the problem is. All these harpies trying to latch on to power so they can milk it for financial gain.

Oh yes, I am an equal opportunity cynic. I'm only harping on Palin because she's the topic at hand, however I tend to rather vocal about each one whenever they do something I deem as wrong, or misguided rather .

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by sara123123

 

But again, if she were still standing on the merits of free speech, why did she remove it within an hour of the shooting? It is obvious that that her team felt it was inappropriate.

Right on! In legal proceedings, things like that fall into category of "circumstantial evidence".

The language in the removed post was extremely conspicuous, in my opinion.

reply to post by sara123123


What anti-Christian witch-hunt is that? BubbaJoe called you anti-Christian. Is it a bad thing to root out anti-Christians posing as Christians?

From BubbaJoe:

go back to church and pray, maybe pray for forgiveness, your actions are in no way Christ-like, you might try reading the book, it is really interesting.

Link to the NY Daily News article?

MOD NOTE: ATTENTION!!!

Please discuss the topic and not other members.


That means no belittling, off topic posts, changing member names to make a point, casting aspersions on another's character, talking down to other members, harassing, political baiting or ridiculing others.

Further such remarks can and will result in warnings and/or post removals.

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

MOD EDIT: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Ad Hominem Attacks And You

Posting Jokes, Ridiculing, Making Fun of Others in Threads...

reply to post by searching4truth


Yeah, me too. The only thing i like about Palin is that she is a pain in the butt to the elected fools. Well, that and that Bristol is smoking hot.

But I do remember when Obama said something along the lines of "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

Link

Maybe if Obama had kept his mouth shut, Giffords would only have been stabbed instead of shot? Yeah, i know...it is just as ridiculous as Palin being blamed for this.

Yes, the American English vocabulary is full of words and metaphors that are war like.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan




Maybe if Obama had kept his mouth shut, Giffords would only have been stabbed instead of shot?

Lame humor at the expense of a dead 9 year old girl and dead and wonded others. Making light of this tragedy is in poor taste and beneath you BFFT. Think of your own family in these types of matters.

It's time for solutions to the hate.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan




Maybe if Obama had kept his mouth shut, Giffords would only have been stabbed instead of shot?

Lame humor at the expense of a dead 9 year old girl and dead and wonded others. Making light of this tragedy is is poor taste and beneath you BFFT. Think of your own family in these types of matters.

It's time for solutions to the hate.

edit on 10-1-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

That was not lame humor. I am pointing out that:

1. the thread seems to focus on Palin, as if she is somehow the pinnacle of the "war metaphor".
2. the "crosshair" metaphor is often used in areas well outside of politics. It is part of the daily American vernacular.

If you saw humor in my post, then you must have completely missed the point. That point being that words are just words, and if people are so sheepish and easily influenced to mistake metaphors for commands to kill, then perhaps the Son of Sam was not so insane after all?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
So if I am a TARGET audience for CoastToCoastAM... do I have to be worried I might be killed with a radio?

If I am a TARGET demographic for a certain insurance, will I be shot by an salesperson?

If I live in a TARGET market of say...real estate, will I be attacked by a house?

If I am in a TARGET group for a certain kind of tooth paste, will I be attacked with a tooth brush?

Seriously? You get the difference don't you?

"TARGET Audience...Demographic...market...group"????....

Try this...Instead of you being amongst a "demographic" or "market" that Rush Limbaugh's advertisers want to sell stuf to....

Limbaugh instead publically publishes a short list of individuals that he explains are "hell-bent on destroying this country" and our "freedoms" etc. etc. and lists your exact name and hometown with crosshairs of a rifle scope over it?

You wouldn't think that was dangerous? Crossing the line?

And if he put the much publicized target list of folks who want to "destroy America" containing your name and location in this context as Palin did?

"Gear up! In the battle, set your sights on next season's targets!"
"No matter how tough it gets, never retreat, instead RELOAD!"

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
1. the thread seems to focus on Palin, as if she is somehow the pinnacle of the "war metaphor".

Of course the thread is focused on Palin! Check the title and OP. What are we supposed to do? Talk about something else? IMO, people are being too damn sensitive about protecting Palin in all this. She stepped into the fire. SHE is the one spinning this political rhetoric without thought of repercussion. The thread is ABOUT her, so yes, people are focused on her.

2. the "crosshair" metaphor is often used in areas well outside of politics. It is part of the daily American vernacular.

Oh, come on, bfft! She's a gun-totin', wolf-killing politician who asks her supporters to RELOAD and target her opposition by placing site cross hairs over them! I don't hold her responsible, but she's not the innocent you're trying to make her out to be here.

THIS WAS NOT A METAPHOR!

A metaphor is like: "His lips were like chocolate covered cherries". NOT "reload and target the cross hairs"

reply to post by maybereal11


Freedom brings with it a great responsibility. A responsibility to use that Freedom responsibly. Now, perhaps Palin didn't use her 1st Amendment responsibly....


...but anyone who takes her words (which are metaphorical, and NOT a direct call to violence) and acts violently upon them, owns their actions themselves.

In the case of this shooter, he hated Sarah Palin. So i am unsure where this whole conversation is even coming from. He didn't like Sarah Palin himself...why would he have taken inspiration from her?

This is a smear on Sarah Palin, that is all. The "liberals" hate her, and do all they can to smear her. Going so far as to create the meme that is fueling this thread: that somehow, Sarah Palin must be at fault for what happened here.

If we are to focus on Palins use of gun metaphors, then we must focus on everyone who has done so (see my prior post, where the president urges people to bring guns when the opposition brings knives).

If i ever do something wrong, please know that it was only me that did it. I made the choice. No one influences me. I would hope that you could say the same.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
In the case of this shooter, he hated Sarah Palin.

Where did you hear this? I haven't heard anything about his feelings for anyone.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
1. the thread seems to focus on Palin, as if she is somehow the pinnacle of the "war metaphor".

Of course the thread is focused on Palin! Check the title and OP. What are we supposed to do? Talk about something else? IMO, people are being too damn sensitive about protecting Palin in all this. She stepped into the fire. SHE is the one spinning this political rhetoric without thought of repercussion. The thread is ABOUT her, so yes, people are focused on her.

Except we could sit here and cite examples till this time next week where there are non-Sarah Palin's out there using the exact same metaphors in politics, including our own POTUS.

She is spinning what she can in defense of the attack which started within minutes of the shooting. Now, i am not defending her as being right. Only saying that there is nothing wrong with her saying what she did, when we consider that it is so common place as to be seen from virtually every candidate out there.

2. the "crosshair" metaphor is often used in areas well outside of politics. It is part of the daily American vernacular.

Oh, come on, bfft! She's a gun-totin', wolf-killing politician who asks her supporters to RELOAD and target her opposition by placing site cross hairs over them! I don't hold her responsible, but she's not the innocent you're trying to make her out to be here.

THIS WAS NOT A METAPHOR!

A metaphor is like: "His lips were like chocolate covered cherries". NOT "reload and target the cross hairs"

She may be a gun totin, wolf killing politician. Thus, it makes sense that she uses a metaphor she is familiar with. Just like when you hear an Army Colonel...they often will use military metaphors. You just explained it why she uses the metaphor: she has a history with guns and hunting. Seems totally logical to me.

Should she mark the districts in some other way? One that ignores the theme of what she was doing ("Hunting for a win")?

Now, i am not saying she is innocent. Only that, as far as this shooting goes, she is completely uninvolved unless there is a connection showing otherwise. But to blame her for the actions of a lunatic is beyond absurd. Especially when this lunatic was a fan of the victim, and seemed to despise Palin.

All i am saying is that we put too much into the words of those fools that we call the media and our elected officials.