Sleepers.....Military Special forces embedded in general society

Hi everyone, I am in the UK and had a pretty interesting conversation with a journalist who is looking into whether the British Government embedded special forces cells into normal society ready for action if we got invaded during the cold war.

These teams came together for dirty tricks jobs, like killing PC John Speed during the miners strike in 84, to divert public support away from the striking miners to the police who were oppressing them for the government and getting a bad name for the pitch battles and provocation.

My contact believes that Barry Prudom who shot two cops in 1982, killing one and who was on the run from Police and the SAS in 1984,was a sleeper. He had access to Arms caches, stores and money from around the countryside. He shot the first cop a couple of miles away from Menwith Hill, a USA army base, The spot where he shot the police man is supposed to be the location of a BT telecoms tunnel direct to the base from Norwood Edge TV/Telecoms mast,

Can anyone add any facts to these bare bones of a theory? This stuff fascinates me!

reply to post by tilpah


I have never heard about this before, so I am going to have to do some research. Interesting though.

My initial thought is what does the government have to gain through having sleeper cell agents in their own public? A handful of sleeper agents would be useless against the Russian army..... and sleeper cell agents aren't used for "combat".

Anyways will look into it...thanks.

I just watched a movie about this.

It was great.

It was called "Conspiracy Theory", made in 1997. I suggest you watch it.

They touch on ALOT of subjects that you can find right here on ATS.

reply to post by againuntodust


Lol, I know, in reality everything maybe just as it appears to be.

Good fun looking at these subjects though!


If you don't look, you don't find!

Originally posted by RustyShakleford92
reply to post by tilpah

 

I have never heard about this before, so I am going to have to do some research. Interesting though.

My initial thought is what does the government have to gain through having sleeper cell agents in their own public? A handful of sleeper agents would be useless against the Russian army..... and sleeper cell agents aren't used for "combat".

Anyways will look into it...thanks.

A handful of well trained men can do a lot of damage to an infrastructure of a country and take out key personnel.

Look at 911, if it was a bunch of guys that hijacked planes, then these sleepers could do stuff like that!

The cold war was straight after WW2 and these units definitely existed in WW2 complete with brick built hidden bunkers 20m deep in the woods. Thats well documented! The same mindset could have existed in the 1960s/1970s which is the period in which I;m interested..

Isn't this related to like the movie SALT? Angelina was little and she was in this orphanage, and this guy trained them to take over the american society. There was also in Family Guy where the mayor turns into as the soviet wanted during the cold war. The americans denied anything about this and said that it was impossible...I hope i am not mixing things up

Haven't seen Salt the movie yet, the stuff I've posted so far leads me to believe that these were either Territorial (part time) soldiers or Military Intelligence or |Special forces guys that were paid to appear to live a normal life whilst training and doing special missions that were not recognised by the establishment; dirty tricks, events to manipulate government decision making, moral and public opinion.



Found the full story here
Operation Dirty tricks

Scroll down the PDF to page 20 -26 and read the full article!

"Demeter Gladio style network known as Orion which was involved in anti subversion activities in the manner used in the networks of Italy. Based around Territorial Army groups there were supposed to be nine sections named after Greek godsesses whilst there were corresponding sections in N Ireland named after male Greek Gods."

But what does the reference to Column 88 ,mean???

Bloody Hell! Neo Nazis!!!

This is partially accurate,during the cold war there were Soviet Spetsnaz "sleeper" units inserted into the UK and it is my understanding that a fairly high percentage of these teams were actually identified.Rather than rush in and capture such teams,it made more sense to send in counter "sleeper" teams comprised of UK Special forces such as the SAS and the "det" to monitor any such units.The theory being that it was far more beneficial to keep the "knowns" in a state of survellance than have alternative teams being infiltrated into the UK and having to allocate time and resources in finding them.
However,It really doesn't make sense that members of the UK Surveillance teams would be involved in the assassination of the constable that you noted in your post . That would have been under the remit of the secret intelligence services,(if indeed that was the cause of his death).who would certainly have been capable of organising such an act,this was the era of Thatcher after all and she certainly didn't shirk from utilising all neccesary means at her disposal to achieve her political agenda.

It is a fairly common practice worldwide.

During World War 2, American and British special forces were parachuted into France and embedded to form the French Resistance.

During the Vietnam War, VC soldiers would blend in as civilians to obtain detailed information on troop numbers, movements, and supply routes.

Even today, South Korea is crawling with North Korean spies.

The Israeli Mossad has done operations all over the world. They have quite the variety of sleeper cells stationed in various countries. Just watch the film "Munich" to get an idea.

Here in the US, the Special Forces community wears civilian clothing on and off of military bases, grow their hair long, grow facial hair, pretty much all of the things we aren't allowed to do under basic military standards. This is mostly to deter reprisal attack. But I do remember reading Chuck Pharer's memoir when he became a part of Seal Team Six. At the time, it was just starting out as a new counter-terrorism unit and he wasn't allowed to tell anyone that he was even in the Navy.

Originally posted by nake13
This is partially accurate,during the cold war there were Soviet Spetsnaz "sleeper" units inserted into the UK and it is my understanding that a fairly high percentage of these teams were actually identified

Right! I read this in the "GLADIO" page on wiki that I linked to above which affirms what you are saying Nake13:

According to US journalist Arthur Rowse, a secret clause exists in the North Atlantic Treaty requiring candidate countries, before joining NATO, to establish clandestine citizen cadres standing ready to eliminate communist cells during any national emergency. These clandestine cadres were to be controlled by the county's respective security services.[4]

So it is pretty well accepted that there WERE and probably are cells of military trained personnel embedded in normal society.

If you read my other link it states that caches of machine guns and military weapons were stashed ready for use by these people!

I remember a weapons cache being discovered in Burley in Wharfedale nr Ilkley Yorkshire in the early 1990s, consisting of military weapons. Some builders accidently broke through a wall of a farmhouse into a privately owned barn next door where the cache could be seen, hidden in a roof space. It was big news locally but didn't make the papers and no prosecutions were ever made.

....the killers...

reply to post by tilpah


I remember reading about this last year during the Cumbria shootings because some people were drawing a comparison between Raul Moat and Barry Prudom among others. As it turns out Barry Prudom was never actually in 22SAS however he did enter selection for 23SAS (territorial) and failed the final test and therefore was never “badged”. Then he sometime in the 1980’s he flipped after being arrested and went running about “Rambo style” using the skills he learned in 23SAS selection. I have never found anything suggesting that he was a Special Forces sleeper.

However I do know that during the cold war such units existed, one was a group of SEAL’s based in Scotland who in the event of a soviet invasion were to conduction intelligence operations for the Americans. It is therefore reasonable to assume that the British had similar plans to help run a resistance however it is impossible to speculate if these were SAS types who were integrated into our communities. I also read that during the 1991 Gulf war there was a threat posed to a British cruise liner so a member of the SBS was planted on the boat with instructions to gather intelligence in the event terrorists or elements sympathetic to the Iraqi government attempted to take over the boat.

I can’t comment really on PC John Speed but to me that seems highly unlikely.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by tilpah

 

I remember reading about this last year during the Cumbria shootings because some people were drawing a comparison between Raul Moat and Barry Prudom among others. As it turns out Barry Prudom was never actually in 22SAS however he did enter selection for 23SAS (territorial) and failed the final test and therefore was never “badged”. Then he sometime in the 1980’s he flipped after being arrested and went running about “Rambo style” using the skills he learned in 23SAS selection. I have never found anything suggesting that he was a Special Forces sleeper.

I can’t comment really on PC John Speed but to me that seems highly unlikely.

How do you know about the Navy Seals ? From personal contact or via the web, any links? I have met 2 SBS guys, but they never discuss anything!

It was a drunk journo that prompted my interest all this, but now I have found that Lobster article that I linked to, he seems to have been pretty well quoting from it. Did you take the time to read it all? It's hard going at first.

reply to post by tilpah


I should have said that the SEAL’s were living on American bases and not intergraded into our communities. I know this because I lived near a base for a while when I was younger and it became common knowledge in the small village that the SEALS had been deployed for that reason. I know about the SBS by reading a book, think it was First into Action by Duncan Fowler but I might have that name wrong.

And no I have not read your links.

Originally posted by kevinunknown
reply to post by tilpah

 

And no I have not read your links.

Ok, well it's worth looking at all those links they could grab your attention!

reply to post by tilpah


Prudom was later said to have worked at the US NSA installation at Menwith Hill (Sydney Morning Herald 20th July 1982), and his first killing was close to that station. Other shootings took place close to RAF installations in the Midlands and near the Fylingdale early warning station.

Three weeks after Prudom was cornered in Malton and took his own life, Geoffrey Prime a former employee at GCHQ Cheltenham was charged under section 1 of the official secrets act. A huge spy story broke the following week, the Observer claimed that Soviet-intelligence had been able to monitor secret Anglo-American communications for the past 13 years. Geoffey Prime was later sentenced to 35 years in prison after admitting that he had spied for the Soviets (The Leader Post 10th Nov 1982), and the scandal spread out to impact the USA, Canada and Australia.

Tom Torney Labour MP at the time called for a statement from Mrs Thatcher on the 'connection' between Prudhom and this new spy scandal (Glasgow Herald 19th July 1982). It was speculated that Barry Prudom was actually a Soviet spy. The Northern Echo - Darlington, reported that Bessie and Brian Johnson and their son from Malton (who had been taken hostage by Prudom during the last 48 hours of his life) had been told by police not to talk to the press about their discussions with Prudom.

During the cold war such units existed, In the navy they were fleet Reserve units.

Both the navy seals and the army special forces had a fallback if the US was invaded.

Under a red dawn scenario there were stockpiles around the US for them to resupply from.

The Seals were going to do behind the line operations.

And the army special forces was to set up guerrilla operations, training and leading civilian volunteers.

There were a large number of stockpile of equipment hidden in remote areas of military bases for this purpose.

There is NO place in the US Constitution that gives the US government the authority to surrender the people to a foreign power.

This meant that no military personal had to follow a order to surrender from higher command.
The order to surrender to a Invader OF the US is a unlawful order.

It is regular police and intelligence practice.
Pro and counter

We have seen the Army and police infiltrate protest movements in "clandestine " fashion
( poorly executed they got caught these times anyway)

Montebello quebec for example, seatle too