Drug gangs seize parts of northern Guatemala

Drug gangs seize parts of northern Guatemala

www.guardian.co.uk

Narco gangs have opened a new front in South America's expanding drug war by seizing control of parts of northern Guatemala, prompting the government to suspend civil liberties and declare a state of siege in the area.

Hundreds of soldiers have reinforced police units in an offensive against a Mexican cartel known as the Zetas which is said to have overrun Alta Verapaz province.

The mayhem has deepened alarm that Mexico's drug war has spilled across southern neighbours and corrupted state

(visit the link for the full news article)

So here we have another push to secure those all to valuable routes for drug traffickers ... needless to say it's not the army the cops or even the cartels hurt by these border skirmishes but the civilians, mostly children....

It's well past time NATO step in, help Mexico fix their problems and have the US close it's southern borders

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I agree that something needs to be done. The U.S. could have closed its borders a long time ago and has done very little to solve this problem.

If only they would smoke a little of the weed they are growing, they might see what they are doing to the world. But to be fair, like 95% of cannabis from across the border is dirt brown shwag, so it'd probably only give them a headache and make them more pissed off.

What I don't understand is how some coked out scrubs with expensive weapons can legitimately hold off and put up a fight against the well-trained military, and also the police force of those areas. You'd think they would just randomly spray those weapons in the general direction of their foes since most likely they have little to no training, while the trained personnel would actually use some tactics to get rid of them.

Originally posted by DontLegalizeDecriminalize
If only they would smoke a little of the weed they are growing, they might see what they are doing to the world. But to be fair, like 95% of cannabis from across the border is dirt brown shwag, so it'd probably only give them a headache and make them more pissed off.

What I don't understand is how some coked out scrubs with expensive weapons can legitimately hold off and put up a fight against the well-trained military, and also the police force of those areas. You'd think they would just randomly spray those weapons in the general direction of their foes since most likely they have little to no training, while the trained personnel would actually use some tactics to get rid of them.

edit on 8-1-2011 by DontLegalizeDecriminalize because: (no reason given)

How do you know they are "coked out scrubs"? Destroyers of the people are not necessarily destroyers of themselves. There are two problems with Central America and South America. 1, I honestly think that the U.S. intentionally neglects to help them. I heard a saying when I was young and it was" Keep Central and South America in chaos so the U.S. can control those two parts of the world." The problems in these South American countries reflect the Middle East crisis where you have small organizations with too much power and the ability to wield it over the people. Just as Hamas and Hizbollah have not been fully taken out, the cartels will not be taken out because they serve a purpose: to create chaos. The proof for South America would be the School of the Americas and the proof that the CIA does benefit through drug trafficking. The U.S. now has soldiers guarding opium fields in Afghanistan, and what do you think opium is used to make? Hmm....

The second problem is that because both in Central/South America and the Middle east the scenario is guerilla warfare, it is very easy to give untrained killers guns and have them terrorize a country. Much like you would do in the Middle East, if you kill a couple of citizens then the authority will back off like the cartels did last year when their war was spreading into Arizona. Mexico has made some great progress in taking out the La Familia and weakening Los Zetas.

It is all done to keep Central and South American countries divided and keep them from becoming a power that isn't depended on the West.

Lastly, who is to say the cartels don't use tactics? They have proven they don't need sophisticated weapons to take out a helicopter!!! I wish I could find the video for that.

Not good news for me...

Im off to belize, the neighboring city in march... :s

reply to post by DevilJin


Well I do not think I can put all your points I disagree with here. However I will address a few. The narcos do not serve a purpose for anything more than their own personal gain. Not for "chaos" as you said. Secondly how is murdering other people regardless of their affiliation not self destruction? Yes many times these people are on drugs. Thirdly it is not so much guerilla warfare as simple hit and run tactics, they do not use IED`s. Which is made even more effective by the fact they do not have uniforms and the police/military forces here (save the marina) are terribly outmatched/ineffective. This is exacerbated by the fact that the army/police/marina all refuse to collaborate and share information between each other. Most of the narcos do not have military backgrounds, of course there are exceptions such as the Zetas which sprouted from ex-special forces mexican military. However many in the military (the army being the worst) have been hopelessly infiltrated by the narcos. The United States is not unwilling to help mexico. That is a load of horse#, they gave the marina info on where Beltran Leyva was hiding out to the army first, but they refused to act. Then they gave the information to the marina who did act. There has been much aid from the US. Just not sufficiently so. It is a very sticky situation because the Mexicans do not want to admit they lack the resources and are too proud to ask for such levels of assistance from the USA. I believe eventually after much more destruction and the narcos have gained an even firmer foothold in mexico and elsewhere we will step in and handle this situation correctly. Also the propoganda for the drug war is very much the same here (mexico) as it is back home. They post all these stories up about pushing the narcos back and destroying their infrastructure, when in reality they are as strong as ever if not more so. You can kill one, but 10 more will fill their place. There is much evidence to indicate infiltration in almost every level of the mexican government.

Originally posted by d00d557
reply to post by DevilJin

 

Well I do not think I can put all your points I disagree with here. However I will address a few. The narcos do not serve a purpose for anything more than their own personal gain. Not for "chaos" as you said. Secondly how is murdering other people regardless of their affiliation not self destruction? Yes many times these people are on drugs. Thirdly it is not so much guerilla warfare as simple hit and run tactics, they do not use IED`s. Which is made even more effective by the fact they do not have uniforms and the police/military forces here (save the marina) are terribly outmatched/ineffective. This is exacerbated by the fact that the army/police/marina all refuse to collaborate and share information between each other. Most of the narcos do not have military backgrounds, of course there are exceptions such as the Zetas which sprouted from ex-special forces mexican military. However many in the military (the army being the worst) have been hopelessly infiltrated by the narcos. The United States is not unwilling to help mexico. That is a load of horse#, they gave the marina info on where Beltran Leyva was hiding out to the army first, but they refused to act. Then they gave the information to the marina who did act. There has been much aid from the US. Just not sufficiently so. It is a very sticky situation because the Mexicans do not want to admit they lack the resources and are too proud to ask for such levels of assistance from the USA. I believe eventually after much more destruction and the narcos have gained an even firmer foothold in mexico and elsewhere we will step in and handle this situation correctly. Also the propoganda for the drug war is very much the same here (mexico) as it is back home. They post all these stories up about pushing the narcos back and destroying their infrastructure, when in reality they are as strong as ever if not more so. You can kill one, but 10 more will fill their place. There is much evidence to indicate infiltration in almost every level of the mexican government.

edit on 8-1-2011 by d00d557 because: (no reason given)

Murdering people is not self-destructive. This is not a moral issue. Look at soldiers. They are trained to kill and they may end up killing often during a war but for most, it does not cause self-destruction. It might be horrifying to relive the acts. Same with cartels, gang-bangers, etc. It is all done out of necessity.

Show me some proof that these murderers are on drugs. You are assuming. In many cases, killing other people is all about business.

"Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare and refers to conflicts in which a small group of combatants including, but not limited to, armed civilians (or "irregulars") use military tactics, such as ambushes, sabotage, raids, the element of surprise, and extraordinary mobility to harass a larger and less-mobile traditional army, or strike a vulnerable target, and withdraw almost immediately". Wikipedia.

Guerilla warfare does not necessarily need IED's. Some, if not all, gangs build strongholds in particular neighborhoods. They incite fear in the ordinary people who reside in those neighborhoods and terrorize or kill them if they speak out. THAT is guerilla warfare. The Brazilian police recently cleared a very danger neighborhood held in hostage by drug dealers.

You may be right about the U.S. help but I think that since Mexico is our neighbor, then their problem is our problem. However, we all know war does not work like that. There has to be a profit made, hence Afghanistan and oil-rich Iraq. Maybe I am thinking too idealistic here but oh well...

You are also right about Mexican cartels being in every level of government but America, which acts as the world police, still carries some blame for Central and South America's problems.

You have no real proof that this isn't designed, that Central and South America are not kept in chaos. Once you understand America's geopolitical tactics, then it may be more believable.

reply to post by DevilJin


So do you literally want a video of 30 or so cartel members snorting coc aine, and then immediately picking up weapons and using their so called "guerilla warfare" tactics (which I still disagree about them using)? That's asking alot

reply to post by DevilJin


Just giving us tin foil hats a bad name honestly. No sir the burden of proof rests on you. Give us some proof this this is all orchestrated from behind the scenes in order to keep these nations in the state they are in. Of course it is our problem as well. We are the drug market they are trying to satiate. Also all our damn weapons end up on the other side of the border. I think you are a bit too idealistic. I am down here in Mexico and see it with my own eyes. Grant it I do not make meetings with the zetas or sinaloa cartel on a bimonthly basis, however I have a better idea than you do having never been across the border. You give them too much credit. I will roughly estimate that no more than 30% of the drug trafficking forces have military training or leadership. They are not self training militias. They are laymen who take up arms and form trafficking groups to assassinate, extort, and kill whoever they need to to get their paycheck. The only ones with reputed miltary leadership were the Zetas. Which I will give you that they are much more advanced in their methods of operation and tactics than the army or police is. I am sure that they are all straight edge and swear off of doing drugs. I bet they are very professional in their work. No wey no puedes tomar nada de drugas. Somos hombres de negocios. Please man. I am not going to argue they all take drugs all the time but it is only logical. Oh I have these couple hundred kilos of coc aine I had better not touch any of it.

Originally posted by d00d557
reply to post by DevilJin

 

Just giving us tin foil hats a bad name honestly. No sir the burden of proof rests on you. Give us some proof this this is all orchestrated from behind the scenes in order to keep these nations in the state they are in. Of course it is our problem as well. We are the drug market they are trying to satiate. Also all our damn weapons end up on the other side of the border. I think you are a bit too idealistic. I am down here in Mexico and see it with my own eyes. Grant it I do not make meetings with the zetas or sinaloa cartel on a bimonthly basis, however I have a better idea than you do having never been across the border. You give them too much credit. I will roughly estimate that no more than 30% of the drug trafficking forces have military training or leadership. They are not self training militias. They are laymen who take up arms and form trafficking groups to assassinate, extort, and kill whoever they need to to get their paycheck. The only ones with reputed miltary leadership were the Zetas. Which I will give you that they are much more advanced in their methods of operation and tactics than the army or police is. I am sure that they are all straight edge and swear off of doing drugs. I bet they are very professional in their work. No wey no puedes tomar nada de drugas. Somos hombres de negocios. Please man. I am not going to argue they all take drugs all the time but it is only logical. Oh I have these couple hundred kilos of coc aine I had better not touch any of it.

edit on 8-1-2011 by d00d557 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-1-2011 by d00d557 because: (no reason given)

Nothing of what you have said gives any actual proof that you have been to or are in Mexico. Your comment seem like they are the results of watching the news much like everyone's else here. You have shown no insights at all and yet you claim "you can see with your own eyes". And why are you assuming I have not been across the border? Again, most of your comment are huge assumptions with no facts to back them up. I never said they did not do drugs. You said "many times these people are on drugs" when killing but you have no proof. You do not have to do drugs in order to kill. Yes, I do believe most, if not all, of the guys do drugs at some point in their lives.

I never said it was orchestrated from behind the scenes. By chaos, I meant simply let it happen. The School of the Americas is the biggest proof that the U.S. has had a bloody hand in this. I am not going to spoon-feed you the information. Just research it yourself.

Your 30 percent estimate is a guess and should not be taken seriously.

About your comment of these guys being laymen who take up arms and become a force = that is guerilla warfare. You do not need to know systematic military tactics in order to develop a plan against the police or military. Like I said before, drug dealers often take over neighborhoods and create a stronghold to which the police have to destroy. You are too rigid in defining what guerilla warfare is.

reply to post by DevilJin


I am assuming because most white people are too afraid or think Mexico isnt worth a damn. So I figured that is a safe assumption. Why the hell would I lie. So I could have an excuse to ramble on like a pedantic prick about things I know nothing of? I have no reason to prove that I am in Mexico and now that I think about it how the hell could I. Other than speak in spanish or use this ñ key that english keyboards do not have. Even then if I speak in spanish you will just say oh well you are mexican living in the united states or some other bull#.

Originally posted by Night Star
I agree that something needs to be done. The U.S. could have closed its borders a long time ago and has done very little to solve this problem.

closing the boarder won't help the main problem at all. Sure it will keep them out of America, but lets get real, I DOUBT the Mexican drug gangs will attempt to 'take-over' an American district. They know it would be near-suicide to dance with the devil and not know how to tango. closing boarders would only be counter-productive. The ONLY solution is an armed conflict against the drug cartels, and it can't be done without Americas help. The police force in Mexico is under drug lords power, and I don't trust the Mexican army will do a superb job against the drug lords. With the efficiency and sheer technological power of the US Armed Forces, those dirty crack heads won't stand a chance.

What ever happened to the war on drugs? What a bunch of bull#. Never has the war on drugs been so important to the security of America, and we are sitting on our hands. Total rubbish.

Originally posted by d00d557
reply to post by DevilJin

 

I am assuming because most white people are too afraid or think Mexico isnt worth a damn. So I figured that is a safe assumption.

lolwhut?

Don't assume either, because neither are true.