"If Roswell falls, modern UFOlogy and interest in UFO's dies along with it"

The author Nick Redfern may be known to some of you regarding his (very intriguing) Roswell theory, but I found myself unable to escape the startling truth in these words.

..the UFO community has built up Roswell to be the Holy Grail of ufology. Now, if Roswell is one day proven to be alien, then the community can indeed proudly stand up and say "We got it right." But, if Roswell is one day proven to be non-alien, then I predict much of modern day ufology will collapse, as will much of the "scene." And by the "scene," I mean the lecture-circuit, the conferences, the magazines etc. To continue in this vein: if the McMinville photos were proven to be hoaxes, would ufology collapse? Nope. If the Mantell case was 100 percent proven to be non-UFO related, would ufology collapse? Nope. Same for just about any other currently unexplained case. And why is that? I'll tell you: none of those cases have been given superstar status of the type upon which much of ufology now stands or falls. That is ufology's biggest ever mistake: making Roswell a make-or-break case for the subject. I actually don't think this has even been done consciously or deliberately, however. But the fact is there will be truly massive disillusionment within ufology if Roswell falls. In fact, I do not even believe that the ETH will survive within modern-day ufology if Roswell falls - the stakes reallly are that high, in my opinion..

Source

If people are still going on and on about the rosewell case well that right there shows theres seriously somthing going on because its been so long if it was not some ufo techonolgy and we have not figured it out yet then damn were not to smart now are we..? and as for everything falling apart if it did turn out to be fake.can't see that happening because you theres still thousands of other storys that are alien/ufo related that have to be proven fake but since theres just so many that cannot be proven fake..I think its just one of those storys to try and get people to forget about it.. kind of like there saying it would happen like this and then out of nowhere that's actually how it happens..

reply to post by Shino


Dear Shino

I do not think the fall of Roswell is possible.

There is just too much to at very least suggest that they are still lying about it.

First off we are now on the third explanation for what occurred there.

Second Roswell was the third such occurrence in just about as many weeks.

Third they made Blanchard a 4 star general before he retired. It is my opinion that if this guy had mistaken bits of tin foil for an inter-stellar craft his reward would have been a cool white room.

However the only thing known for sure is they where lying then & I think they are still lying.

The question to ask is WHY.

I totally disagree. The mountains - worth of evidence regarding ufo's is located throughout human history. Whereas the Roswell incident is famous, but to me not really the prime case involving extra terrestrial visitors. Also, the ufos would need to quit hovering over cities like Phoenix and Mexico City.

If anything, Roswell is the incident that more often than any other, gets ufologists categorized as cooks - just because there is so much misinformation that has muddied the incident over the years.

The entirety of ufology is not based upon one incident, no matter how many tv shows are made about it.

I couldn't agree less. Roswell is the giant "IF" statement of the UFO phenomenon.

If Roswell wasn't an alien crash, then the entire phenomenon was and remains as baffling to our nation's leaders as it is to us. If it was, not only was alien visitation a known fact to our government all the way up to then President Harry Truman but the found debris certainly led to some sort of technological advancement we should be able to identify today.

That's all.

Thats alot of ifs buddy....
maybe like a super skeptics dream eh?

I will take the 2002 Sealed Affidavit of Walter G. Haut
as all I need...

Walter G Haut's Bio

DATE: December 26, 2002
WITNESS: Chris Xxxxxx
NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan

(1) My name is Walter G. Haut

(2) I was born on June 2, 1922

(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203

(4) I am retired.

(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.

(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.

(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.

(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.

(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.

(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.

(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."

(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.

(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.

(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).

(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.

(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.

(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.

(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.

(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.

Signed: Walter G. Haut
December 26, 2002

Signature witnessed by:
Chris Xxxxxxx



Hey guess what buddy?!?
Roswell Happened!

I agree with Redfern's comments but I also believe that the so-called "Roswell Incident" should be thrown out. It has become the biggest distraction ever to serious UFO research.

The Roswell incident was a non-event that has been turned it into something of mythic proportions. Over the years it has become a tangled web of lies, half-truths and distortions. It has furher been contaminated by the MJ-12 hoax which has now been tied to the equally mythical S-4 (of Bob Lazar's creation) and Dulce. Consequently UFO researchers have been lured into focusing on the Roswell fable rather than expending more worthwhile effort on truly unexplained events.

reply to post by Shino
Nick's one of the good guys in the field, in my opinion, producing books that are often important. Reading this, he makes some good points about the value of the circuit diminishing if Roswell fell. I wonder how much of his thoughts are an outcome of the mauling he received from the hardcore Roswell researchers when he brought out Body Snatchers in the Desert. They still have a level of animosity following the book where Nick put across a different possibility. There was a question that a US experiment had used Japanese POWs and progeria patients as test-dummies on balloon flights. It was these victims of a crash that were mistaken for short aliens. It's possible Roswell represents a bad taste for Nick Redfern...

There's also a question of how Roswell could possibly be 'disproven.' It hasn't yet despite several official attempts and the articles of opposers. How can a negative be proven? How can anyone prove what it wasn't without *proving* what it was?!

To a large extent, Roswell is a question about aliens whilst the UFO enigma is a mystery that might not feature 'extra-terrestrials' in the answer at all. Machines, people from the future, dimensions or some unknown phenomena that interacts with us in the form of images? We don't know and if Roswell had never happened, we still wouldn't know what UFOs might be. For many of us, Roswell isn't the 'be-all-and-end-all' of the mystery.

S&F for showing a few people Randle's blog; it's one of the ones I check every day and the comments are often as good as the blog. UFOPartisan runs a good blog too with articles that make interesting reading. People should check them both out.

This is an absolute nonsense and Redfern does this kind of thing for attention.

What about Rendlesham for a start!

I used to like Redfern, i even have a couple of his books years ago so i am familiar with his work. These days he's just laughable.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
S&F for showing a few people Randle's blog; it's one of the ones I check every day and the comments are often as good as the blog. UFOPartisan runs a good blog too with articles that make interesting reading. People should check them both out.

Thanks dad!

I completely disagree.
Plenty of other accounts in history. While Roswell seems to be the most significant, there are plenty of other accounts. Search this site. Or watch Ancient Aliens.

If the Roswell case fails it doesnt matter. There are thousands of more cases worldwide, these couldn't be discarded just because Roswell was wrong. The idea is utterly laughable.

not entirely related, but i'd always held the rendlesham (uk) case as one of the best bits of evidence of UFO existence....
until this week, when I saw the "binary code message". Apparently this was "given" to one of the witnesses when he touched the craft, only he was so scared to speak of it for 30yrs he never once mentioned it to anyone. Amazingly, after he recited it from his mind's eye and translated it in a form of binary which didnt even exist when the message was supposedly given, it miraculously gave a message about exploration of humanity and the co-ordinates of the mythical island Hy-Brasil.

i'm sorry, but ....
B0LL0CKS!

This has ruined everything for me now, I 100% don't believe this story and feel it's totally wiped out the rendlesham case as a valid case for UFOlogy. Given the already hard to believe story, exactly why was this binary message something you had to keep secret? Add to that the complete lack of UFO related wiki-leaks, i'm beginning to doubt the possibility of alien craft ever visiting this planet, which disappoints me massively. My interest in UFO's has spanned 25+ yrs, over this time nothing has really progressed with UFOlogy, infact it's regressed due to the disinformation explosion of the internet.

I'm really starting to wonder how this Roswell "secret" and all the other cases could have been kept a complete secret for this long. It simply wouldn't happen in this world. It's starting to feel as though believing in such things on such shoddy and poor evidence is a really bad idea.

I desperately hope that this situation changes soon. However now we're presented with 3 min videos of lanterns, rc toys, planes and CGI every day so qualifying a real UFO is virtually impossible. If any Aliens are reading this, up your game, it isn't working

Roswell was only a case study and by no means the smoking gun of ufology. the phenomenon continues daily so it will only be a matter of time before something more profound that cannot be hidden will expose its self for all eyes to see and touch...its inevitable

Originally posted by ceetee
not entirely related, but i'd always held the rendlesham (uk) case as one of the best bits of evidence of UFO existence....
until this week, when I saw the "binary code message". Apparently this was "given" to one of the witnesses when he touched the craft, only he was so scared to speak of it for 30yrs he never once mentioned it to anyone. Amazingly, after he recited it from his mind's eye and translated it in a form of binary which didnt even exist when the message was supposedly given, it miraculously gave a message about exploration of humanity and the co-ordinates of the mythical island Hy-Brasil.

i'm sorry, but ....
B0LL0CKS!

I understand what you're saying, but James is a pretty solid guy. Remember that the show is Ancient Aliens and James made no connection with Hy-Brasil, it was the show's producers and, yes, that could be a reach but that's the show. The base commander Conrad, who doesn't think alien visitation is the explanation for Rendlesham, speaks very highly of him regardless.

reply to post by UFO Partisan


I always held the fact that this was a documented case of the US Military as one of the key truths in this case, but if this is a complete fabrication, then everyone involved would have have to have agreed it's inclusion in the show and I haven't read about any outrage from anyone featured since it was broadcast, infact I read that James told the recent rendlesham conference the exact same info, then refused to hand over the 6 pages of binary.

if this is a fabrication and he's gone along with it, helped with a nice cash bung for his retirement, then you have to question the whole thing. It's pretty devastating news...

Originally posted by ceetee
reply to post by UFO Partisan

 

I always held the fact that this was a documented case of the US Military as one of the key truths in this case, but if this is a complete fabrication, then everyone involved would have have to have agreed it's inclusion in the show and I haven't read about any outrage from anyone featured since it was broadcast, infact I read that James told the recent rendlesham conference the exact same info, then refused to hand over the 6 pages of binary.

if this is a fabrication and he's gone along with it, helped with a nice cash bung for his retirement, then you have to question the whole thing. It's pretty devastating news...

edit on 8-1-2011 by ceetee because: (no reason given)

You are right if that's the case. It's one of those things that you either buy or you don't. I'm not sure how much dough is in the whole UFO racket, but I don't hold it against anyone for going after an honest dollar. Personally, I think he's being honest.