Huge Foreclosure Decision- Banks Can't Foreclose if They Don't Own The Loan

reply to post by Pauligirl


It is illegal for a deed of trust to be both a deed of trust and a security. You can't have it both ways, and the banks were hoping they could and that no one would notice. You have either one or the other. The securitization of the deed of trust created a security. Once made a security, the deed can no longer be a deed again. There is no putting the cat back in the bag.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


You make payments to your loan servicer, not the owner of your mortgage that is now a security.

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe

Banks do NOT sell loans from one bank to another, since the early 1990's. Banks have the service rights transferred from bank to bank. A servicer is not the owner of the note, and it is illegal for a loan servicer to sell or foreclose on a loan because they don't own the loan.

reply to post by Bordon81


It can be very dangerous to buy a foreclosed home or a home from a bank that has gone under because the title can be clouded. Some title companies are refusing to provide title insurance to homes that have been foreclosed upon. It is too risky without a clear understanding of who 'owns' the property.

reply to post by thewholepicture

This may go to the Supreme Court, but this is a state issue. States dictate how a mortgage must be documented, what must be filed for a legal assignment/transfer, how securities are registered in the state, and other consumer protections. The State's are fairly clear in outlining how mortgages will be notarized and recorded. Standing is black and white- and it has became obvious that banks have forged documents (robosigning) and been caught red handed.

reply to post by thewholepicture


Didn't mean to steal your thunder theWholepicture. Have the mods close this one, and I will repost under your thread. Sorry.

reply to post by Pauligirl


This is interesting Pauligirl. There was no money lent in the traditional sense of the bank having the loan debited from it's assets. Funds were transferred, but the funds were fiat money in a sense. Now that we know that mortgages are securitized and no funds are truly transferred, but instead created- the same argument can be said for credit card and other types of debt that are securitized.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by hawkiye
The big secret is there is no loan and never was the bank never loaned you anything in the first place. The promissory note paid for the house in full and you created it not the bank. They can't prove they have a claim in court but the courts have been in collusion with them until recently. Maybe this will change things.

This case may change the way foreclosures are handled, but it's not going to help the "no money lent" folks because the argument is bogus.
www.mnbar.org...

Sorry the argument is not bogus what is bogus is the article at your link I can prove in any mortgage document no money was loaned and you were tricked into re-conveying property you already owned after paying for it with a promissory note to the so called lender. Which one of you ever read your mortgage agreement before you signed it???

Originally posted by hawkiye
Sorry the argument is not bogus what is bogus is the article at your link I can prove in any mortgage document no money was loaned and you were tricked into re-conveying property you already owned after paying for it with a promissory note to the so called lender. Which one of you ever read your mortgage agreement before you signed it???

I've read quite a few of the agreements, so yes, please show me.

reply to post by Pauligirl


Here is an audio that explains how every mortgage in America is a fraud very well so you can find it in your own mortgage documents and so I don't have to type it out for you. Since I can't show you personally. Listen to this and you will be astonished and pissed that you missed it.

www.freedomsphoenix.com...

reply to post by lostviking


No IT WAS NOT THE BANKS FAULT.

This was all created by the government in collusion with the banks.

Are you going to tell me that the government, which forced banks to make unsecured and risky loans, is not CULPABLE in this?

You can attempt to subvert the government's involvement all you want, it will not work.

I researched this pretty thoroughly.

market-ticker.org...
www.all-foreclosure.com...
www.wdfi.org...
www.zerohedge.com...
nxt.legis.state.wi.us...

Some of the sources I used while researching the foreclosure debacle.

The government, Since Clinton has been forcing banks to provide low income people loans calling it FEEL GOOD # like the Affordable Housing Act and other # bills. They forced these loans down the throats of banks since the 90's.

Guess who was one of the people in the middle of this whole thing? Yeah, that is right, the ONE, Barrack Husseing Obama.

This was a PLANNED AND DELIBERATE takedown of the economy. Since the beginning of the Bush Administration, specifically 2003, people with half a damn brain attempted to shutdown the madness.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Destroy the economy was their purpose and they would not be stopped.

Either they did it on purpose or they are the MOST CRIMINALLY IDIOTIC people in the history of the world.

Take that to the bank, ohhhh sorry, all the smaller banks are mostly gone now. Who is left? That would be the ones in on it.

Which makes sense. If you don't own the loan, then you don't "own" the house, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to foreclose on it. This is partly how this whole mess got started; maybe they'll learn their lesson and not give loans to people who don't deserve them when they're playing with their own money.

Seems to me that one of the things that started this mess was something they called Liar Loans.

They would get someone into a house by misrepresenting the buyers financial situation. Maybe even going as far as making "suggestions" to the buyer while filling out the paperwork. Once the deal was signed the bank then sold the loan and didn't have to worry about whether the buyer defaulted or not.

THEY GOT PAID twice. Once when they made the loan and again by selling it. That was all that mattered.

Nice to see that Karma is coming round.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by Pauligirl

 

Here is an audio that explains how every mortgage in America is a fraud very well so you can find it in your own mortgage documents and so I don't have to type it out for you. Since I can't show you personally. Listen to this and you will be astonished and pissed that you missed it.

www.freedomsphoenix.com...

edit on 8-1-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

I listened to as much as I could. I'm astonished. but only at the fact that somebody actually believes this guy. What good is a promise to pay if you don't pay? Say you sell your car (his example) and instead of the buyer paying cash, you take a note from him for the purchase price. What good is that note to you if he doesn't pay....other that the fact it will allow you to take back the car for non-payment.

He’s basically saying that you can get a house for free, just with your signature. I don’t think so.

reply to post by LazyGuy


Precisely, Wall Street rigged the system to fail because there was no cost to them. The cost will ultimately be paid by the taxpayers....as usual.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by Pauligirl

 

Here is an audio that explains how every mortgage in America is a fraud very well so you can find it in your own mortgage documents and so I don't have to type it out for you. Since I can't show you personally. Listen to this and you will be astonished and pissed that you missed it.

www.freedomsphoenix.com...

edit on 8-1-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

I listened to as much as I could. I'm astonished. but only at the fact that somebody actually believes this guy. What good is a promise to pay if you don't pay? Say you sell your car (his example) and instead of the buyer paying cash, you take a note from him for the purchase price. What good is that note to you if he doesn't pay....other that the fact it will allow you to take back the car for non-payment.

He’s basically saying that you can get a house for free, just with your signature. I don’t think so.

So you didn't listen to the whole thing and you didn't get your deed out and find the language in it he speaks of... Sigh And then proceed to condemn him anyway...

I may be wasting my breath on you but for anyone else who might have listened... You can't re convey something you don't already own. And you signed the note for "Monies received" when did you receive money? You didn't! The note is the money that is why they deposit it into an account as an asset and then sell it. See technically there is no money period even the so called money in your pocket is a NOTE expressing a debt. promissory notes signed for loans are the main source of money and dollars are just the petty cash. The bank cannot prove they had money in an account they loaned you. It was created on the spot BY YOU signing the note. They know it and they know you don't know. YOU FUNDED your own loan and made the bank millions and what did you get for you trouble? 30 years of servitude!

This is how they blew up such a big bubble. The book the OP gave is well and good but is not the whole story. They create money out of thin air with these promissory notes with you as the surety. This is the major way they create money and they don't even need a printing press. This is how the largest bubble in history was created and now we are in what will prove to be the worst depression in history. It's the biggest fraud in the history of the world!

Thanks though for illustrating why we are in this mess, folks can't even see it when it is it explained to them and written in plain English in thier contract! It is not a matter of believing anything it is a mater of cold hard facts laid out in plain language right in the documents....

Everyone needs to understand while on the surface this appears to be a good thing, if we continue the precedent set by our corporatist government then the Federal Reserve will come in and "bailout" any bank and hedge fun invested in these mortgage backed securities and in essence you will be paying your rent, (cough) I mean mortgage payments to the Federal Reserve.

This will be the largest land grab our government / banker rulers in the history of the USA.

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


That should be exactly what happens. The Federal Reserve (if we don't abolish it) should buy every home loan from every securization at full face value. (Pay $100k for a 100k mortgage). Then they need to turn around and modify every loan, cutting 20-30% of principal. The end result on a 100k loan would be to reduce the principal to 70k. A 30 year loan at 5% interest rate would mean that 70 k loan wo\uld be repaid with 135k in payments. Thus the goverment makes 35 k over the term of the loan, less administrative expenses.

Make the above a one time opportunity. It would spur huge economic revival. The investors in the securizations would be made whole and would have to invest their proceeds elsewhere. The banks would just keep servicing the modified loans for the goverment. They would also get the liability from investors off their back. Homeowners could not aford their payments for the most part, which is still a bit higher payment than a foreclosure will eventually bring.

Everyone wins except those who feel cheated that they didn;t get any benefit. Their benefit will come with a new revived economy. They can also now buy a home with peace of mind that the seller actually has the right to sell it, which is anything but a certianty at this point. If the true goal is to move this country forward, then this type of plan needs to be enacted. Failure to do so will result in the continuation of the American economic detoriation.

reply to post by lostviking



Pg 16 of your book clarify. When the loan is convered into the stock then the promissory note ceases to exist.

My question "What happens to the prommisorry note?" They didn't shred or burn it Who has it?

reply to post by lostviking


Along the same lines, this is about to go viral. I think it's good people are being empowered to keep their homes. Lending banks are now being held accountable for the trap they set, borrowing money they didn't themselves have, while using loose and illegal practices in the process. The MASSIVE lawsuit against Wells Fargo / Wachovia, Indymac / OneWest bank, Citibank, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, GMAC..............can actually, not only put a stop to your foreclosure, but also pause your house payments with no loss to you............
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