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# Anyone out there that can try building this device?

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posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:48 PM
I have a diagram for a device that exploits the Force Square Law, which says that combining the magnetic flux from 2 or more magnets or electromagnets in parallel, will boost the flux strength exponentially. For example, 2 identical magnets in parallel will generate a combined magnetic flux that is 2 squared = 4 times as strong as each magnet's individual flux.

My idea uses electromagnets and alternating current. I'll try to describe the device but if anyone wants to see a hand-drawn diagram of it, then send me a message with your email address and I'll email it to you. I'm going to describe a device that has three input coils wrapped around three soft iron cores, which are connected on each end by one of two iron bars(effectively creating a large 'horseshoe' electromagnet). At the end of the two iron bars is another iron core with an output coil wrapped around it. The windings of the three input coils have to be the same so that when current is fed thru them, their magnetic fields will all be in parallel. If the current alternates, then the induced current from the output coil will also alternate but because it's induced by the more powerful magnetic flux, the power coming out should be more than the power going in. I'm not able to try to build this device myself so I'm hoping someone else can give it a go.

There's also an interesting variant where the AC input power is derived from the output coil on a toroid, which has an input coil that's part of a self-oscillating 'tank' circuit ie. a coil connected to a capacitor. Once an initial pulse of current is fed into the tank circuit, it will be bounce back and forth from one side of the capacitor to the other. The oscillating action is produced by the collapsing magnetic field of the (input) coil. The idea is that every time the input coil is magnetized with current, it will induce a current in the output coil, which will then send (alternating) current to the 1st device. Eventually the oscillations in the tank circuit will dampen down to nothing and at some point another pulse will have to be fed into it to get it oscillating again but if the oscillations flow back and forth hundreds of times before they dampen down to zero, the total power induced in the output coil should be many times the power needed to keep the tank circuit oscillating.

So what I'm hoping this combination will achieve is a device that not only produces more power than it uses, but also boosts that power on top of that. The first device can have any number of input coils >1 but because the Force Square Law is exponential, care has to be taken that the connecting rods can handle the higher combined flux and not become saturated at a lower level.

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:05 PM

Interesting could your PM me the drawing?

I would love to try it

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:18 PM
Yea I can do this - not! Good luck in your endeavor - sounds like the type of thing my boyfriend is interested in.

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:22 PM
i want a try.....i need drawings and i can get going now....! sounds like fun and i'm real curious

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:26 PM
This type of thing is used worldwide. Search "current transformer" or "potential transformer". CTs and PTs come in several diferent ratios and are used in metering for the electrical utility industry. Mostly they are used to reduce current or potential from a primary source to a secondary (usually in a meter can) to allow an accurate but smaller amount of the electric service to be safely metered or measured.

If a CT or PT is hooked up "backwards" or secondary side to the primary line then they will increase current or potential. Usually they are used to reduce current or voltage.
edit on 7-1-2011 by isitjustme because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:28 PM
I'm also curious. Share/post the drawings?

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:31 PM

I would also like the rough blueprints as well. You never know until you try. Please PM them to me. Thank you.

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 09:23 PM
Please PM me too - I can't send a U2U message yet - too new to ATS, I guess. I have several local friends I would like to share this with, and maybe build one up.

Over-unity machines are generally impossible and/or fraud schemes to raise money, but the one I find most interesting is Tom Bearden's "Motionless Electromagnetic Generator" which was issued a US patent a few years ago, and replicated by a French researcher named Naudin as I recall.

posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
I have a diagram for a device that exploits the Force Square Law, which says that combining the magnetic flux from 2 or more magnets or electromagnets in parallel, will boost the flux strength exponentially. For example, 2 identical magnets in parallel will generate a combined magnetic flux that is 2 squared = 4 times as strong as each magnet's individual flux.

I don't think that is correct.

Combining 2 magnets will only nearly double the strength.

So, magnet A with 1 unit of strength, and magnet B with 1 unit of strength, will only create nearly 2 units of strength when combined.

In a manner of speaking, the strength of each magnet is nearly doubled. Magnet A now has 2 units of strength, and magnet B has 2 units of strength, BUT that does NOT mean they have 4 units of strength. In reality, both magnets still have 1 unit of strength, they just borrow 1 unit from each other.

So when you test the strength of magnet A which has 1 unit, it borrows 1 unit of strength from magnet B, so it appears magnet A has 2 units. The same is when you test magnet B, it borrows from magnet A. So it appears both magnets have doubled their strength. But, in reality, it only nearly doubled. It is actually less than double because of the distance apart from each magnet. The flux is not perfectly combined.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 02:52 AM
Why can't you build it yourself? It does not sound like you need too much to get started, electronic stores like Radio Shack and JayCar have heaps of bits and pieces that are pretty cheep. Could even try second hand or junk stores for old tv's and other bits and pieces if money is real tight. Working with the materials will also give you a better understanding of what is going on and just where exactly that edge is.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 03:13 AM

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
I have a diagram for a device that exploits the Force Square Law, which says that combining the magnetic flux from 2 or more magnets or electromagnets in parallel, will boost the flux strength exponentially. For example, 2 identical magnets in parallel will generate a combined magnetic flux that is 2 squared = 4 times as strong as each magnet's individual flux.

I don't think that is correct.
Even if it is correct, what do you hope to accomplish?

Power increases exponentially as current increases. If you double the current you quadruple the power, you can get that right out of the wall socket, you don't even need magnets:

Power Equals I Squared R
www1.teachertube.com...

So what does the exponential increase get you? This is well known.

I don't understand the objective of building anything.

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:47 AM

When I wrote my first reply I wanted to write more, but I was in a hurry and had to cut short. I originally was just explaining a concept that I think the OP may be misunderstanding about magnetism.

I am well aware of Ohm's Magic Triangle.

I believe OP's device is not going to do what he hopes. He essentially just has a transformer with three primaries and one secondary. No matter what theoretically the power in the secondary coil will be the same as the combined power in the three primary coils. However, there is a loss of power because the secondary coil will never be able to make use of 100% of the magnetic flux. Some magnetic flux escapes from the cores. Also, energy is lost when the cores heat up, and other issues.

I believe the OP thinks the three primary coils / inputs / electromagnets will somehow create more power because they are combined in parallel? That is not accurate... essentially you just have one large electromagnet, nothing special.

The OP also talks about using a resonant circuit to power the transformer, and maybe some type of pulse modulator to power the resonant circuit when the resonant circuit loses power to due to resistance. Although resonant circuits create more current and or voltage than is inputted, the work you put in is the same you get out (actually less because of losses).

Basically, I think what you have in that case is a resonant transformer which Nikola Tesla loved to play with.

OP, I fully understand the concept you were going for, I can picture it in my mind, but unfortunately I don't see you getting more power out than in.

If you don't take my word for it, it wouldn't be too hard to make a small one.... actually you might even be able to try it out in circuit design software like NI Multisim.
edit on 8-1-2011 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:57 AM

V Gate Magnet Motor

edit on 8-1-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 12:33 AM
Having more output than input from a closed circuit is therotically and practically speaking impossible. There is simply no other answer.

If one measures, by any means, a higher output from a closed circuit than the input it had, then that means that either the measure is wrong, or the system is not closed.

I'll go a bit further. This explanation that the OP does about his system seems indeed so simple that most people with some technical skills would be able to build such a machine that gets some energy and outputs more than it got.

Don't you think that, were it that simple, everything working on earth today would be using such a technology to produce energy? Oh please, don't answer me oil is money, coal is money, nuclear is money, etc. I know full and well. What I'm saying is, if it were that simple, don't you think that there would be hundreds and thousands, in each and every town, who would be making those systems available to friends, neighbours, "customers" and all, because that would also be their business?

Nice idea, but flawed.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 12:57 AM
A little philosophy:
How much energy does a solar power plant consume?
How much energy does a nuclear power plant consume?
In contrast to the production?

I would say they MAKE more than CONSUME..Or am i wrong?

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 11:03 AM
I haven't had a chance to address some of the posts individually but several have asked for me to send the diagram via PM. Not sure how to do that. Can anyone explain how?

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Miccey
A little philosophy:
How much energy does a solar power plant consume?
How much energy does a nuclear power plant consume?
In contrast to the production?

I would say they MAKE more than CONSUME..Or am i wrong?

Well, the solar power plant gets it's energy from the Sun, so it gets more than it consumes when you manufacture it in the first place. It is also not very efficient with the energy it gets either, usually.

As to a nuclear power plant, it gets the energy from the Uranium or Plutonium fission occuring, which produces a lot of power.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
I have a diagram for a device that exploits the Force Square Law, which says that combining the magnetic flux from 2 or more magnets or electromagnets in parallel, will boost the flux strength exponentially. For example, 2 identical magnets in parallel will generate a combined magnetic flux that is 2 squared = 4 times as strong as each magnet's individual flux.

I don't think that is correct.
Even if it is correct, what do you hope to accomplish?

Power increases exponentially as current increases. If you double the current you quadruple the power, you can get that right out of the wall socket, you don't even need magnets:

Power Equals I Squared R
www1.teachertube.com...

So what does the exponential increase get you? This is well known.

I don't understand the objective of building anything.

Ummm, E=I x R

edit to add: Sorry, thought you were going for volts, not joules.
edit on 9-1-2011 by beezzer because: I was wrong

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 02:59 PM
Okay, some of you are saying that my idea can't work because there's no such thing as Force Square Law. One reply was that if it worked like I think it would, the world would already be using it. The Force Square Law is not something that's in most textbooks on magnetism. In fact, after I found it on Joe Flynn's website, I searched for confirmation of it and I couldn't find it anywhere on the net back then. Since then, it's appeared on other sites. So a device like this may not be used because hardly anyone knows about it. For those skeptics among you, here is a site that talks about parallel path principles and replications that prove it plus another site with a very interesting animated diagram (at the bottom of the webpage) on Paul LaViolette's website where he talks about the Lafforgue thruster but the diagram is about the tank circuit.
Proof of concept
tank circuit animation

I also recommend Patrick Kelly's 2,000+ page ebook on free energy devices. You can find that here.
Free Energy Device ebook

As to why I can't try building it myself, it's because I don't have room to work on stuff like this and also because I'm not experienced with things like soldering connections, etc. nor do I know where to buy some of the parts. My concern is that my shoddy workmanship may prevent the thing from working the way it could if it was built correctly.

For those of you who have expressed interest in trying this, I'll contact you by PM.

posted on Jan, 9 2011 @ 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Studenofhistory
I haven't had a chance to address some of the posts individually but several have asked for me to send the diagram via PM. Not sure how to do that. Can anyone explain how?
If you want to keep the diagram secret, e-mail it to them.

If it's not secret, just upload it to something like imageshack and post the link here in the thread, or you can U2U the link to them.

You and your minions doing your bidding building this device will have a lot more problems than just solder joints. You didn't answer my question about why you're so excited about an exponential increase, since power increases exponentially with current coming right out of the wall socket? If you want to tap an exponential increase, why not just tap that source? No soldering or armies of minions to build your device needed.

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