Proof?

While I don't agree with the behavior of the guy who made the post at the top of the page right now(dt..something), I do agree with his question-

IS THERE ANY PROOF of a NWO coming into power.

Is it just something that people have taken sides with, or is there real proof on this board, or anywhere else- any help would be great, thanks...

That's the real trick, isn't it?...Proof.

If the Illuminati/NMO/whatever actually exist, it can only do so in secrecy. Why? Simply because they're few in number & if exposed to the world population in general, would be quickly overwhelmed.

Thus, they must maintain extemely tight secrecy for their own security: Cover ups, distractions from the media/government/corporations/religions, elimination of evidence or the siliencing of those few who learn the truth...All designed to maintain the safety of secrecy.

Whoever *has* the real truth is either one of *them*, dead, bought off for their silence, or even residing in insane asylums...

However, *they* aren't perfect...Some clues & evidence is still capable of being found, but it's most likely to be incomplete, fragmentary, at best. All we can really do is find what evidence we can & rely on logical deduction & (perhaps unhealthy levels of) speculation to figure it out.

For all we know, some group of fiction-writers came up with a practical joke to spread rumors about *them*...And they have colaborated an elaborate fiction designed to keep people nervous & out of control of themselves. They've planted "historical documentation", hire a few people to create some unrest somewhere, publish articles under psuedonyms...

If anyone learns the real truth about the prank, they have to find some way to silence them & discredit their findings in order to keep their prank going...
...Hey, maybe there *is* a conspiracy after all...


[Edited on 19-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

"Proof"? Without having the word defined - no, I can't "prove" it.

Evidence, on the other hand, is Echo Zulu ( E-Z, if you're not tuned into this manner of speech )

Foster Bailey, 33d degree Freemason, wrote a number of books about the New World Order. He's all for it, worked diligently to bring it about.

Things To Come, Running Gods Plan and The Spirit Of Masonry. Written in the 50s. Used the term New World Order to describe the Plan for one world government with one world religion. Ruled by the King of This World, who will be restored to his throne. The KOTW is A Christ, but not Jesus Christ. AKA Sanat Kumara. Do a Google search for Sanat Kumara, see if you like what comes up. Sanat Kumara has another AKA - Guardian of the Divine Fire!

Two things Foster Bailey wrote of as part of the plan, special projects of The Hierarchy, AKA the Spiritual Hierarchy, AKA Masters Of The Wisdom: A united Europe with a common currency, and a Law Of The Sea Treaty. remember, this was written in the '50s.

In Re the Illuminati existing in secrecy - Albert Pike, J.D. Buck, Foster Bailey, Manly P. Hall and C.W. "Lend a hand" Leadbeater - all 33d degree Freenasons - all wrote that Freemasonry is guided and controlled by the Iluminati. I have the books in my possession, and have read this with my own eyes.

[Edited on 20-3-2003 by Researcher]

[Edited on 20-3-2003 by Researcher]

I suggest you folks crack open your Bible and check out Christ's sayings concerning the end times. Daniel and St. John (Rev.) mention Gog and Magog coming down the mountainsides to do battle...

Who are Gog and Magog?

King James VI & I (the guy that authorized the Bible to be translated and published so that even the layman could read it), in A Fruitful Meditation, states:

"Secondly, he gathereth God and Magog to battell, in number like the sand of the Sea, and so he and his inclined to battell and bloodshed, have mightie armies, and in number many, inflamed with crueltie. The special heads and ruler of their armies, or rather rankes of their confederats, to goe to battel and to fight, are twaine, here named Gog and Magog; Gog in Hebrew is called Hid, and Magog Revealed, to signifies that in two sorts of men chiefly Satan shall untter himselfe, to wit, hypocrites, adn avowed or open enemies to God: It is said then that Satan shall in the latter times rule a new over the world, who shall stirre up the nations under the banners of these two enemies to God, the hypocriticall and open to spread themselves in great multitudes upon the earth.

Thirdly, they shall ascend upon the plaine of the earth, presumptuously and proudly, bragging of their number and force, and thinking none shall be able to resist their rage: They shall compasse and besiege the campes of the Saints, and beloved Citie, that is, the handfull of the faithfull beloved of the Lord, against whome, trusting in their untellable number, like the sand of the sea, they shall make a cruell and uncessable warre."

Therefore, whatever evil occurs, half of it will be in plain sight, and half of it will be well hidden.

I hope this helps. If any of you need a translation, let me know and I'll give it a shot.

Peace be unto you,

-�-

do any of you find that what Savonarola said is painfully sounding, and looking like what is going on in current times?

The KJV cannot be used as any kind of accurate translation of scriptures...It was commissioned by King James for *political* reasons, not religious ones. He wanted it written to enforce his rule, not enlighten.

The Doctrine of Bible Inerrency is false & riddled with lies to cover up the basic lies of its formation & continuance. I suggest that you use a different reference for quoting scripture, because the KJV *doesn't quote scripture* in the first place...Although it's cleaned up its act in more recent revisions, it's still woefully inaccurate.

'nother bit of info about the KJV...

King James was a Freemason.

KJV was edited by Sir Francis Bacon, Freemason, Rosicrucian, who knows what else.

Originally posted by Researcher
'nother bit of info about the KJV...

King James was a Freemason.

KJV was edited by Sir Francis Bacon, Freemason, Rosicrucian, who knows what else.

And my great great great grandfather was a Freemason and the High Sheriff of Newfoundland. So what?
I can accept a movement towards a 'Novus Ordo Seclorum'. I have seen enough historical policy decisions and actions to support that this is a goal.
But what of this 'Illuminati' spectre? I see smoke, mirrors, lots of sizzle, and no meat. Give me something I can sink my teeth into.

Ah, but if we had one thing....just one thing...we could sink our teeth into, we would have them. The Illuminati have had quite a long time to protect the secrects of the NWO and a lot of time to learn to cover up lose ends.

I propose a question:
Is this complete and utter lack of evidence proof the NWO doesn't exist?
...................
Or that it does?

The total absence of evidence, no matter how small or trivial is not proof of anything. In my view it does however, support the non-existence of this Illuminati more than its existence. If they do exist, they may not go by that name. They may not have an official name. But, if extant, they are one slippery bunch.

The New World Order is a reality. The UN is now admitting that publicly - whereas just 5 years ago, they were asked about "world government" and they denied it. Now the UN admits that they only want world government to help us poor slaves out by spending all their........ “OUR”... trillions of dollars for us. You take their hand and you will be deceived, as it is a fact the UN is controlled by the same oligarchy of evil. You have two false choices - take your pick! Yet, even on mainstream news, these same evil-ones are slowly coming forward and telling us literally that world government can save the planet from the big-bad USA. It's designed to destroy the USA after using the military might of America. Think Enron - you use it, make the world hate your guts, and then collapse it, right?

Go read the writings of James H Billington and Professor Carol Quigley. Their proof comes straight from the horse’s mouth, as they exposed the Rhodes-Milner round-table and detail how they funded both sides of the many wars - not just WW1 and WW2. Both authors were in fact members of the society (at different levels) and they both were very close to, and supported their plans, yet they only opposed the fact that this SUPERPOWER wishes to remain hidden from public view and they felt that something this important should not remain hidden.

Also check out Norman Dodd's interview with Edward G. Griffin regarding tax-exempt foundations. Dodd was a Morgan Banker and worked close with the globalists - in fact they thought that he was one of them. Dodd was hired by Congress to investigate the tax exempt foundations. Dodd was told by Mr. Carnegie and the President of the Ford Foundations that their objective was to comfortably merge the life of US with that of Communist Russia. Also, they told Dodd that they had to bring the US into both world wars to alter the life of the American people, to re-educate them into COLLECTIVISM and away from the INDIVIDUALISM and also to continue to fund both sides of conflicts. Also, the Great Depression was caused by the international bankers and this was because of the cartel-like Federal Reserve bank (which is not Federal and 100% exposed as a conspiracy) Remember, at one time, no American paid income-tax!

Research further, it becomes very obvious that Cecil Rhodes was funded by the Rothschild interests. And did not Rothschild support and possibly fund Adam Weishaupt's Illuminati group? It would be rather foolish to assume that Rothschild just dropped his plans, after Weishaupt's exposure.

Whether we accept that the Jacobins of Adam Weishaupt's time infiltrated into Europe and spread the "fire in the minds of men", or we accept that the Illuminati was destroyed in Bavaria, matters not! We know that the Illuminati were founded upon a Jesuit-like secret order and in fact Weishaupt hated Freemasonry. Yet, their goals are EXACTLY what is happening today and that being said, the idea of "Prometheus" from Masons like Francis Bacon, was a notion carried forward by Cecil Rhodes himself and he teamed up with others including Milner, Rothschild and a mage named Wm T. Stead, who was into the whole "Mahatmas" occult thing and was also known by the Theosophist Society. Cecil Rhodes molded his Order on the Jesuit-Illuminati idea and that then follows same, as it passed down today into the Federal Reserve, CFR and so forth. The term “Illuminati” is fine with me because only time-wasters enjoy correcting everyone else on the exact term of Illuminati, Alumbrados or Rosheniah etc

Study the writings of the leaders of the 1800's and it is clear that not only was the New Atlantis idea the dream and the bringer of freedom in America, but ironically that very same agenda which now works with the former enemy-Jesuits into accomplishing the same NWO goal, is enslaving us and we must oppose! The NWO is a reality and if the milk toast-jellyfish wish to ignore the truth coming right from the evil demons own mouths (Bush says torture is allowed, Commander and Chief), then so-be-it.




[edit on 15-2-2006 by markusjharper]

The 'Novus Ordo Seclorum', or whatever name one wishes to give the one world government is, as far as I have seen, not at all in question. The secret cabal most commonly called the Illuminati is what is being contested. It is no secret that such an order was founded by Mr. Weishaupt. But in twenty years of reading on the subject, I have yet to see one solid piece of evidence that such a group is skulking around behind the scenes. I have no doubt that meetings such as the Bilderberg get togethers, WTO conferences, APEC summits, etc. are platforms for the global elite to exchange ideas and plan ways for them to remain in power, and to increase that power. It is hard to imagine them not doing so.
Therefore, since the current decrepit state of world affairs today is in urgent need of addressing, a global structure is attractive. How else will we end the atrocious 50 000 kids who die every day, 365 days a year, for want of food or basic medicine? It is a daily crime against humanity.
It is my preference that this one world gov't. be controlled on a grass roots level, and be as transparent and as equitable to all as can be.
'Its a small world, but I wouldn't want to carpet it."

[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

BlackGuardXIII,

It seems to me that you and I are on the same page. You know the old saying " all paths lead to Rome"? Well, I say it should be "all paths lead to the Rothschilds"

In my studies, I found that 'Novus Ordo Seclorum' was placed there by members of the "Order of the Quest" and they had in mind a new Atlantis. From before Roger Bacon, to Francis Bacon, and Ben Franklin and many others, they all interconnect with the notion of "freedom" and also the Aristocratic nature of pushing a hidden agenda - for good or bad to bring us the New Atlantis of America, the "United States of Freemasonry". But then the good intentions eventually turned bad.

I agree that the evil-oligarchy may not go by the title "Illuminati". In fact I seriously duobt they do

Something interesting I found was that in another fashion, the founder of the Jesuit order himself " Ignatius Loyola" was indeed, a member of the Spanish Alumbrados but I believe that the Pope and even Jesuit General has been in Rothschild's pocket since the early 1800's.

There may be some link to Adam Weishaupt’s Illuminati. In the book written by James H. Billington, he mentions how the Jacobite-like flame was started from the Jacobin movement against the more Modern Freemasonry and then this very "flame" changed the democratic nature and even the older aristocratic nature within Freemasonry and of Christianity. This then ignited the war in Europe - which later still echoed in America the Civil war. However, I agree that this is still not enough to be absolutely sure though.

But I stress the grave danger of taking the helping hand of the UN. They are run by the same Global Elites. Looking into how the UN is now teaching kids in America about globalism and nothing of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, is a very distressing thought. The UN is basically an extension of CIA/MOSSAD?NSA etc. and the rumble of China is but a Leninist Vs. Fabian game as they all want the same thing - to enslave us in their own sick ideas of Utopia. The UN is still run by the US anyhow, so it's another vietnam.... either stay in and never win, or leave and lose. We have Bush or the UN - 2 false choices, it is time for a third option.

And...when in doubt, get it from the horses own mouth:

Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order;

tomorrow they will be grateful.

Henry Kissinger

[edit on 15-2-2006 by markusjharper]