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Marine vet's 20-foot flagpole has homeowners association filing suit over a display of patriotism t

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posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


And that has been my argument this whole time, Whether Congressional approved legislation, sign and passed supersedes the law(bylaws) of a HOA.

And it does~
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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Hope the trolls are full, I'm interested in seeing what the court decides, as any reasonable person can see that is the next step. To continue this debate, though it's hardly to be considered such, is just wasting everyones time.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by sbctinfantry
Incorrect, the average two story house is 20 feet, not including the roofing. Building a structure such as a flag pole, that is no taller than the houses around it, is incredibly reasonable. This one is for the courts, not the man or the HOA. You can't decide, they can't decide, the very fact that the word 'reasonable' is part of Section 4 alludes to the courts having the ultimate say, because the man building it certainly believes it is reasonable, the HOA believes otherwise, and a mediator will have to cast the final vote.


Again, thats up to the HOA. You are putting YOUR interpretation of what reasonable is down, which doesnt matter. Does the flag pole cast a shadow on anyone elses house or lawn?

Oops, unreasonable.

The courts will get involved, but it is up to the HOA to decide what is unreasonable. Then they just have to back it up.


I surrender the decision to the courts based on law interpretation, and you decide it is in the HOA's hands? Who is putting their interpretation forward again?


I surrender nothing. I read the act. The act clearly states:
"any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association."

So, if the HOA can prove to even the slightest degree that it is unreasonable, or that it damages their interest, (like I said, does it cast a shadow?), then the HOA is specifically protected under this act.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


And that has been my argument this whole time, Whether Congressional approved legislation, sign and passed supersedes the law(bylaws) of a HOA.

And it does~
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


Now if only you understood what that act actually says...



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


I do hope it goes to court...I'm curious as to what a judge's ruling would be?



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Why would anyone want to fly the American flag?

It represents an enslaved people and a criminal government.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
So, if the HOA can prove to even the slightest degree that it is unreasonable, or that it damages their interest, (like I said, does it cast a shadow?), then the HOA is specifically protected under this act.


...

In a court of law. *yawn*



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
So, if the HOA can prove to even the slightest degree that it is unreasonable, or that it damages their interest, (like I said, does it cast a shadow?), then the HOA is specifically protected under this act.


...

In a court of law. *yawn*


Ugh, you two really dont understand law, do you?

All the court will decide is whether or not the HOA can back up their claim of 'unreasonable', not on what can be deemed unreasonable or not.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Under the federal Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005, no condo, co-op, or homeowner association can restrict its owners from displaying the U.S. flag on their property. But there are exceptions. Associations are permitted to place reasonable restrictions on the time, place, and manner of the display to protect a "substantial" interest of the association. The bottom line? Federal law prevents associations from enacting blanket bans on flag flying but allows restrictions that are reasonable and necessary to protect owners' interests in association property.


Source

What might some of those interests be?



Some displays can be noisy or unattractive. Having to listen to a "talking" flag or the thump, thump, thump of a metal chain or rope against a flagpole can be an irritant for neighbors. Also, some people consider tattered flags or lights highlighting flags disrespectful. Finally, holes are often drilled to hold flag displays, and that can create water damage issues. All of those potential problems are sound reasons for associations to provide guidance to homeowners on flag displays.


Yeah, this guy is going to have to take his pole down.
edit on 1/7/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


You honestly don't think that if this case goes to court, that the presiding judge won't specifically address the legality of not only the pole issue, but the issue between the HOA bylaws and what the Act says?



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Just love how these elite corporations infringe on the American, much less the pride that some have! I'm glad to see this guy stand up for what he believes in.

Also good to see that the Flag Act of 2005, supersedes the HOA bylaws. Hope it goes to court, so the HOA in question will be seen as the asses they are!

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


I am not a fan of homeowners associations, but he chose to live in one, and therefore to follow the rules of it.
This is bull He is vet for god's sake let him have his Marine Corps flag I love how some people just have nothing better to do then pick on a Marine.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Just love how these elite corporations infringe on the American, much less the pride that some have! I'm glad to see this guy stand up for what he believes in.

Also good to see that the Flag Act of 2005, supersedes the HOA bylaws. Hope it goes to court, so the HOA in question will be seen as the asses they are!

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


I am not a fan of homeowners associations, but he chose to live in one, and therefore to follow the rules of it.
This is bull He is vet for god's sake let him have his Marine Corps flag I love how some people just have nothing better to do then pick on a Marine.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


However, if this case goes to court, the neighbors in the surrounding area, according to the article have no problem with the flag or the pole. Therefore that aspect of the argument has no merit.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


Under the federal Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005, no condo, co-op, or homeowner association can restrict its owners from displaying the U.S. flag on their property. But there are exceptions. Associations are permitted to place reasonable restrictions on the time, place, and manner of the display to protect a "substantial" interest of the association. The bottom line? Federal law prevents associations from enacting blanket bans on flag flying but allows restrictions that are reasonable and necessary to protect owners' interests in association property.


Source

What might some of those interests be?



Some displays can be noisy or unattractive. Having to listen to a "talking" flag or the thump, thump, thump of a metal chain or rope against a flagpole can be an irritant for neighbors. Also, some people consider tattered flags or lights highlighting flags disrespectful. Finally, holes are often drilled to hold flag displays, and that can create water damage issues. All of those potential problems are sound reasons for associations to provide guidance to homeowners on flag displays.


Yeah, this guy is going to have to take his pole down.
edit on 1/7/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)
In my town where I live. People have a bunch of flags hanging like the Star Of David. But whats the difference between a school having a flag and home owners having one.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by zombiesC4

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Just love how these elite corporations infringe on the American, much less the pride that some have! I'm glad to see this guy stand up for what he believes in.

Also good to see that the Flag Act of 2005, supersedes the HOA bylaws. Hope it goes to court, so the HOA in question will be seen as the asses they are!

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


I am not a fan of homeowners associations, but he chose to live in one, and therefore to follow the rules of it.
This is bull He is vet for god's sake let him have his Marine Corps flag I love how some people just have nothing better to do then pick on a Marine.


So because he's a vet he shouldnt have to follow the rules?

It's not 'picking on' a vet to ask them to abide by a contract that they signed, sorry bud.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


You honestly don't think that if this case goes to court, that the presiding judge won't specifically address the legality of not only the pole issue, but the issue between the HOA bylaws and what the Act says?


Considering that they put section 4 in the act specifically for instances like this, no I dont, as a judge has no right to overrule a congressional act.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by zombiesC4
 


Why should vets get special treatment?

Hint: they shouldnt.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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He wont be forced to take it down.

There is no such thing as reasonable, since it is a subjective argument.

the water damage due to the hole from the flagpole is completely laughable.

HOA's by design are nothing more than one set of retards trying to tell others what they can and cant do with their own property.

Take a look at your average HOA and its board of directors. More times than not you will see retirees, and some truly pathetic dolts who have nothing else better to do.

Personally, I think all HOA's should die in a fire.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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...from the article posted in the op...

After his application to erect a 20-foot flagpole in his backyard was denied, he protested in a series of letters and, ultimately, erected the pole anyway.



The association's lawyer, Nina Tran, said her clients encourage residents who wish to fly the flag to do so — as long as that flag is attached to a 6-foot pole mounted on a resident's home, as the bylaws stipulate.


...its not about his flag... its about THE LENGTH OF HIS POLE... you'd think a man would get that part...



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
He wont be forced to take it down.

There is no such thing as reasonable, since it is a subjective argument.

the water damage due to the hole from the flagpole is completely laughable.

HOA's by design are nothing more than one set of retards trying to tell others what they can and cant do with their own property.

Take a look at your average HOA and its board of directors. More times than not you will see retirees, and some truly pathetic dolts who have nothing else better to do.

Personally, I think all HOA's should die in a fire.



Ill agree with that whole-heartedly, HOA's are NOT GOOD.

That being said, no one forces anyone to buy into an HOA, and no one forces them to sign off on the 'rules' when they do.







 
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