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Marine vet's 20-foot flagpole has homeowners association filing suit over a display of patriotism t

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posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
And you would know exactly what about patriotism? You have put your a$$ on the line exactly how many times?


I "put my ass on the line" many times. I was in the army starting at a rather young age, being the youngest in my battalion during a tour in Mosul, and then again in southern Iraq. I experienced a lot of combat, and saw a lot of death and suffering. Not particularly proud of either scenario, but it was a choice I made at a young age, and I must live with my decisions and move on.

I don't have many regrets, but I do regret I had to learn the hard way that patriotism has nothing to do with the flag, or the "military" and what it does today. The flag doesn't honor the deaths of servicemen or women, or with whom you served. It does nothing. It is a flag.

Erect the highest pole you want, and fly the brightest colors you please, your "brothers-in-arms" will still suffer, and those they "fight" shall suffer twice over.

No. Only veterans with broken minds, try to conflate flag-waving with patriotism. A nation needs honor and integrity, before it may proudly wave it's flag, otherwise it is an embarrassing hypocrisy and a sort of national tragedy. Do you think kids with their arms and legs blown off care if some arrogant fool flies a high flag? What does that say to the rest of the world. What does it say to those whom we cause to suffer with our ordnance and lead, that we are at "our proudest moments" when war-casualties are at 'plague status'?

Says a lot really.

Put the flags away, there is nothing to be proud of right now. If you want to be a patriot, you can try to ease normal-folk into a sense of modesty for once. Maybe learn once and for all that needless death and tremendous agony is nothing to be proud of at all.




posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
You are great at insulting people when your argument fails.

The HOA ruling is unlawful.


What was the insult?
Let's try again.

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
So the HOA nazis are basing this on what complaints MIGHT be received not any that actually have been received.

Not really. They are basing it on rules that this man agreed to when he signed the contract.

The association's lawyer, Nina Tran, said her clients encourage residents who wish to fly the flag to do so — as long as that flag is attached to a 6-foot pole mounted on a resident's home, as the bylaws stipulate.


No, they are not basing it on psychic predictions of future complaints. They are basing it on a rule they already have on the books. This is all I responded to.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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Man, I hate hearing stories like this. It's just a flagpole, for hell's sake. Who is it hurting by being 20 ft tall? The man should be allowed to fly his flag. If he wants it flying 20 ft in the air on his own property, then that should be his choice. Yes, he agreed to the HOA when he moved in, however, nowhere should we start saying that because we agreed to something, we should never disagree with it. Life is dynamic, it's not cut and dry. He, as a human being, is capable of agreeing to the HOA at one point in his life, and then disputing one of their rulings at another point. Isn't that what having an independent mind is all about? Let the poor vet fly his flag in peace, he earned it.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by mydarkpassenger
 


There is really no good reason he or his lawyer would be made aware of any complaints. It may not be safe to assume there have been complaints but painting the picture that all his neighbors suppurt him because one house does seems slightly tinted.


But again, don't you think the HOA lawyer would have produced evidence that there in fact were complaints?

Clearly there were not.

Just a bunch of little people on that board, given a little power, and it went right to their heads.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
But again, don't you think the HOA lawyer would have produced evidence that there in fact were complaints?

No. There is no reason the lawyer should have even heard of neigbor complaints. Why do you assume he should?


Clearly there were not.

How is that clear?


Just a bunch of little people on that board, given a little power, and it went right to their heads.

Maybe. Maybe you are assuming a great deal.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by Violater1
Right On! Absolutely,and 100% Correct

Most of these CaptainKeyBoards no nothing of honor nor patriotism.
Here we have a serviceman who is proud to have had the guts to protect the freedoms of his constitution, and people, and these namby pamby notknownothings, whine about him putting up our colors.
Sad, just very sad

Had to give you a star!
edit on 7-1-2011 by Violater1 because: A star for patriotism

edit on 7-1-2011 by Violater1 because: pinko pink


1) Boy gosh, golly. I am just a low life civy so I obviously hate America and such so let me ask a stupid question.
2) What is patriotic about a 20 foot pole that is lacking in a 6 foot pole?



1) you said it, not me
Although there is nothing wrong being a civy

2) About 14 feet



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
But again, don't you think the HOA lawyer would have produced evidence that there in fact were complaints?

No. There is no reason the lawyer should have even heard of neigbor complaints. Why do you assume he should?


Clearly there were not.

How is that clear?


Just a bunch of little people on that board, given a little power, and it went right to their heads.

Maybe. Maybe you are assuming a great deal.


Because if you file suit in court against someone, they are entitled to get copies of the so-called evidence against them? And before that, the board would have to notify this Marine that there were complaints filed?



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by SyphonX
 



This isn't about what Patriotism means to people, its about what it means to this Veteran who served his country and wants to display a flag on his own property. It most likely means a lot to him!!!! and it isn't hurting anyone else.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
And you would know exactly what about patriotism? You have put your a$$ on the line exactly how many times?


I "put my ass on the line" many times. I was in the army starting at a rather young age, being the youngest in my battalion during a tour in Mosul, and then again in southern Iraq. I experienced a lot of combat, and saw a lot of death and suffering. Not particularly proud of either scenario, but it was a choice I made at a young age, and I must live with my decisions and move on.

I don't have many regrets, but I do regret I had to learn the hard way that patriotism has nothing to do with the flag, or the "military" and what it does today. The flag doesn't honor the deaths of servicemen or women, or with whom you served. It does nothing. It is a flag.

Erect the highest pole you want, and fly the brightest colors you please, your "brothers-in-arms" will still suffer, and those they "fight" shall suffer twice over.

No. Only veterans with broken minds, try to conflate flag-waving with patriotism. A nation needs honor and integrity, before it may proudly wave it's flag, otherwise it is an embarrassing hypocrisy and a sort of national tragedy. Do you think kids with their arms and legs blown off care if some arrogant fool flies a high flag? What does that say to the rest of the world. What does it say to those whom we cause to suffer with our ordnance and lead, that we are at "our proudest moments" when war-casualties are at 'plague status'?

Says a lot really.

Put the flags away, there is nothing to be proud of right now. If you want to be a patriot, you can try to ease normal-folk into a sense of modesty for once. Maybe learn once and for all that needless death and tremendous agony is nothing to be proud of at all.


You are either a liar, or you have chosen the wrong forum topic. Make a topic about what you feel, but don't disparage this Marine's decision, or glorify those arm-chair quarterbacks on that HOA board who need their little power fix.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
You are either a liar, or you have chosen the wrong forum topic. Make a topic about what you feel, but don't disparage this Marine's decision, or glorify those arm-chair quarterbacks on that HOA board who need their little power fix.


Oh, I'm sorry. I don't fit your cliché of what a "real soldier" is, so I must therefore be a liar or misguided? I'm a liar how? You realize how many Iraq/Afghanistan veterans there are, that think just like me, and lurk ATS? There are many.

I may not be a true patriot, but I know false patriotism when I see it, and all of this is in response to the "he's just being a patriot, so leave him alone" crowd. I could care less what the Homeowner's Association wants or does. They are needlessly controlling, I would agree, but I digress.. The real point is that there is really no yard, in a small community, where flying a huge flagpole is appropriate. (Considering this is a community that signs agreements to be "same-y" after all.) Flag-waving bravado, especially during these times, is inappropriate. It upsets people because it doesn't stand for anything anymore.

Perhaps this man should invest in a ranch, or purchase real land. Then he can do whatever he wants. Though I wager he simply wants to butt heads with everyone, which is typical of most marines I've known throughout the years. Impossible to reason with. Impossible. Their minds were deconstructed in training and in their short time spent with the Marines. Marinating in an environment of high-intensity aggression and manipulative conditioning. Then let go, to run around the world in the same state. This is just what they do.

Yes, I'm "picking on the Marines", because they just simply beg for it. Oh, woe is the poor Marines..



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Just love how these elite corporations infringe on the American, much less the pride that some have! I'm glad to see this guy stand up for what he believes in.

Also good to see that the Flag Act of 2005, supersedes the HOA bylaws. Hope it goes to court, so the HOA in question will be seen as the asses they are!

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


I am not a fan of homeowners associations, but he chose to live in one, and therefore to follow the rules of it.


Exactly right, when he agreed to live there he agreed to abide by its rules. He cannot win this one, sorry folks.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:32 PM
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You know our fore fathers had a contract with the king, but they said "F-U" and in return became outlaws.
So maybe this guy finally said "F-IT" I'm going to fly my flag and I'm going to fly it high. So be it, his flag his home.
He will go to court and let the law decide, if he disagrees with the law then take it to the supreme court.If he disagrees with the supreme court then start a revolution of flag fl-yin soldiers.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Whereweheaded
Just love how these elite corporations infringe on the American, much less the pride that some have! I'm glad to see this guy stand up for what he believes in.

Also good to see that the Flag Act of 2005, supersedes the HOA bylaws. Hope it goes to court, so the HOA in question will be seen as the asses they are!

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 7-1-2011 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)


I am not a fan of homeowners associations, but he chose to live in one, and therefore to follow the rules of it.


There was a time when people lived in the south and had slaves. Some of those people openly protested slavery and ended up in jail! And your saying, for those objecting Southerners, they are wrong? Because they weren't following the rules?
That's pretty twisted.


Something you are missing here, as you usually do....the slaves didnt sign contracts.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Yes. Really. That HOA board is simply pissed that this man is defying their ruling, even as that ruling is unlawful.


I was simply disputing your errant guess with the facts. Sorry you used that as a jumping point to shift from. Deny knowledge!


You are great at insulting people when your argument fails.

The HOA ruling is unlawful.


Except that, as has been proven here ad nauseum, it's not. Try again.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by SyphonX

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
You are either a liar, or you have chosen the wrong forum topic. Make a topic about what you feel, but don't disparage this Marine's decision, or glorify those arm-chair quarterbacks on that HOA board who need their little power fix.


Oh, I'm sorry. I don't fit your cliché of what a "real soldier" is, so I must therefore be a liar or misguided? I'm a liar how? You realize how many Iraq/Afghanistan veterans there are, that think just like me, and lurk ATS? There are many.

I may not be a true patriot, but I know false patriotism when I see it, and all of this is in response to the "he's just being a patriot, so leave him alone" crowd. I could care less what the Homeowner's Association wants or does. They are needlessly controlling, I would agree, but I digress.. The real point is that there is really no yard, in a small community, where flying a huge flagpole is appropriate. (Considering this is a community that signs agreements to be "same-y" after all.) Flag-waving bravado, especially during these times, is inappropriate. It upsets people because it doesn't stand for anything anymore.

Perhaps this man should invest in a ranch, or purchase real land. Then he can do whatever he wants. Though I wager he simply wants to butt heads with everyone, which is typical of most marines I've known throughout the years. Impossible to reason with. Impossible. Their minds were deconstructed in training and in their short time spent with the Marines. Marinating in an environment of high-intensity aggression and manipulative conditioning. Then let go, to run around the world in the same state. This is just what they do.

Yes, I'm "picking on the Marines", because they just simply beg for it. Oh, woe is the poor Marines..


Why does the phrase "as full of sh*t as a Christmas turkey" come to mind on reading this?

Maybe it has something to do with your attitude. Your blanket attitude and opinion of Marines tells me you have spent exactly zero time among them.

So you were in Mosul? In what capacity prey tell?

Back on topic: this HOA's rules and contract were null and void by federal law, long before this Marine signed it.

End of story.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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I used to live in KB homes. They tried to get money out of us because we painted our door blue.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Yes. Really. That HOA board is simply pissed that this man is defying their ruling, even as that ruling is unlawful.


I was simply disputing your errant guess with the facts. Sorry you used that as a jumping point to shift from. Deny knowledge!


You are great at insulting people when your argument fails.

The HOA ruling is unlawful.


Except that, as has been proven here ad nauseum, it's not. Try again.


Actually not. Please support your opinion with facts, and try again.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Yes. Really. That HOA board is simply pissed that this man is defying their ruling, even as that ruling is unlawful.


I was simply disputing your errant guess with the facts. Sorry you used that as a jumping point to shift from. Deny knowledge!


You are great at insulting people when your argument fails.

The HOA ruling is unlawful.


Except that, as has been proven here ad nauseum, it's not. Try again.


Actually not. Please support your opinion with facts, and try again.


Re read the thread. RE: section 4 of the flag act of 2005. I dont have any inclination to post it a 5th time.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by sabbathcrazy
I used to live in KB homes. They tried to get money out of us because we painted our door blue.


Was there a rule against painting your door.

And you did it anyway?

The money would be to repaint the door according to their specific code.




edit on 7-1-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
Why does the phrase "as full of sh*t as a Christmas turkey" come to mind on reading this?

Maybe it has something to do with your attitude. Your blanket attitude and opinion of Marines tells me you have spent exactly zero time among them.

So you were in Mosul? In what capacity prey tell?


Why did you even ask me if I served or "put my ass on the line" if all you were going to do is call me a liar? I seldom talk about being in the military, as a means of "debate", but you asked and you received. I'm not going to keep listing my experiences to you.

Frankly, I knew you would do this, so I'm left to question myself why I answered you.

Good luck on your quest to find that every soldier fits neatly into your close-minded checklist of a "patriotic soldier", you may have difficulties completing said quest in the year 2011.

(and when I speak of Marines, I'm referring to the "outspoken" among them)



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