I'm starting to lose my faith in God and Jesus.

Originally posted by staciebee
One more thing...no one deserves a thing from Him, as we are all unworthy, rotten, no good sinners. So thank Him for even hearing you. (And I know I will catch much flack from this last statement, mostly from non-believers....so be it. AMEN

And away we go:

And this is why I don't subscribe to your religions - because of this indoctrination. It is the typical dogma. It's also the setting of the stage - the setup.

Why do you fall for that? Do you believe in your religion because you

1: Need to fill a void?
2: Are fearful of the word of god and don't want to be smitten?
3: Need to take insurance out for the afterlife?

Seriously - it has to be one of those 3. I would have put a 4 but it's probably considered offensive.

Don't get me wrong - I like the whole, "I'll pray for you" thing. But I get angry when I hear and see things like that last paragraph you wrote because... Well you know why it's offensive.

Why is your god the right god or the only god or the only CONCEPT of god?

These Abrahamic religions really hog the concept of god. It's a shame.

reply to post by impaired


I disagree with your three choices. If you read my post I list out three better ones. People call themselves all sorts of things, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao all called themselves atheists, does that represent all atheists? If you wish to discuss the religion wouldn't it be better to go to what the books say not individual responses to the book? I do not defend individuals who call themselves Christians, I defend what God said. I do not blame atheism on Stalin nor do I say all atheists would agree with him, I discuss atheism. To do anything less is to attack a straw man.

Look up Father Damien and tell me that his faith did not rule his actions. It is not dogma that is the problem, it is the failure to understand the reason for the dogma that leads some Christians to misunderstand what we were told. They asked Jesus what the most important commandment was and he said "To love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself". That is the dogma of the church and many member fail to remember that. I can defend the dogma and I just told you what it is, do you disagree?

Originally posted by staciebee
One more thing...no one deserves a thing from Him, as we are all unworthy, rotten, no good sinners. So thank Him for even hearing you.

...

Isn't this the same stuff they throw at you in POW camps?

reply to post by impaired


well, staciebee, i gotta disagree with you. i don't think my Creator would evre look at me in disgust or any of His creation. with sentiments like yours, no wonder people think God hates them.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Dear FeedTic,

I will try and answer you; however, in the end only you can determine what you believe. It does say God answers our prayers, it does not say the answer is yes and it does not say when he will answer.

In one of my earlier posts I quoted this from the Bible:

18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

That does not say that sometimes the answer will be no. To me right now the answer that "Sometimes God says no", "It's not Gods will", and "It will be answered in God's time not ours" sounds like an all too easy out. Thats why I said in my original post that I could probably pray to the Sun and get the same results.

From others replies, I am getting the feeling that I should just meditate and try to get closer to God. Throw out the Bible as the Word of God and just concentrate on feeling God in and around me. Forget prayer and just try to move in God's presence.

reply to post by FeedTic

From others replies, I am getting the feeling that I should just meditate and try to get closer to God. Throw out the Bible as the Word of God and just concentrate on feeling God in and around me. Forget prayer and just try to move in God's presence.

Why would you throw out the Word? It also says God magnifies His word even above His name.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'm starting to think the Bible is not the word of God. That is a completely human authored with no inspiration from God. Therefore nothing in it can be trusted as being Divine.

It does have historical and moral value, but not a guide to how I should worship or communicate with God.

Originally posted by FeedTic
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I'm starting to think the Bible is not the word of God. That is a completely human authored with no inspiration from God. Therefore nothing in it can be trusted as being Divine.

It does have historical and moral value, but not a guide to how I should worship or communicate with God.

I'd disagree, it's an integrated message system from outside the space time dimension. It's heptadic structure alone proves conclusively it would be impossible to be contrived by human effort.

How We Got Our Bible: Old Testament; Chuck Missler Part1

How We Got Our Bible: New Testament; Chuck Missler Part1

Missler - Bible Heptadic Structure - Pt 1

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Thanks for the links, I will check them out.

Believe me when I say I'm not closed minded about such things. I am truly searching right now.

reply to post by FeedTic

Throw out the Bible as the Word of God and just concentrate on feeling God in and around me. Forget prayer and just try to move in God's presence.

Jesus is the word (John 1), not he name, but the person the name refers to.
Meditate on this person. Jesus did not come for no reason.
It is God communicating to us, the person Jesus is, is the word of God.

I would never believe in a book that commands me to kill atheists, heretics, disobedient children, witches etc. The bible is full of contradictions and has caused so much slaughtering that it's ridiculous. It should be obvious that some loon wrote it. If there is a creator, it most likely has nothing to do with any of the religions.

No prayers have ever been answered. No miracles have happened. There's a thing called chance. Says science.

Live free of heaven and hell. There is no second life. There is no sin.

Congrats for finally finding the truth.

reply to post by FeedTic


Hey buddy, sorry to hear your losing your faith. I say this because I lost mine. I used to work at a Christian school right around the time I started to lose my faith. I tried to get it back. I prayed and went to church, I read different Christian books on the science that they say will back up any question you have. Even though some questions were answered, it really opened a can of worms as related to new questions.

The toughest time I had was trying to get over the notion of hell. Even though I knew it was completely irrational from a loving God, I still held on to my beliefs out of fear. (I can just imagine God saying," Son I love you so much, I created you, knowing you would have less faith and go to hell. I really do love you. Now take this key to the lake of eternal fire and jump in head first. Remember, I love you." WHAT? Loving huh? God even said time is short. Well thanks for the rushed decision, God! This had happened many times in the past by thinking "blasphemous thoughts". The thoughts of my doing blasphemy always got me thinking about something else other than those blasphemous thoughts, because of my fear of hell. I got fed up. I was sick and tired of believing out of fear and not for love, peace, comfort or a personal relationship that so many others say they had. I hadn't felt that way in a long time. The number one thing that really turned me off sooner then later was, that there were many people in my church that knew what I was going through and as I asked for guidance, they either couldn't or wouldn't help. I guess I was the odd one out and it was something that the members of that Assemblies of God church did not want to touch. So I gave up trying to prove something that I truly felt is flawed. (BTW, that church was a lot of fun. No regrets being there.)

It was tough, but as soon as I got free of the bondage of Christianity it was like a giant weight off my chest. Kinda like in the Matrix, how Neo is weak and not sure what to believe in after being saved from the matrix itself. Because even though he is free of the matrix, so many more questions are now raised.

I never stopped believing in a God, but I followed my own path and found my own happiness. Maybe it was what God wanted from me, or maybe it is something that I needed and my own mind knew it. I still get all sorts of ideas that I really truly wish, that religion or Christianity would give the answer to or, at the very least have others in the stories with the same or similar questions. I guess that sort of thinking wasn't put into the bible for a reason.

Here are some questions I still have. These are just some of them.

Why were some books omitted from the bible and are still locked away in the Vatican? If they truly are not truthful, why not release them?

How come the idea of a fiery, torturing hell only came about when some of the Apostles were in a volcanic region of the Mediterranean in the 3rd century? How does this give you free will, when man or a god uses fear and pain on a daily basis to control?

God was everywhere back then but why, today no one ever sees God? Except in burnt toast I guess.

How come there are religions older than Judaism? Also, why do they have very similar ideas and stories? Maybe this is because there is a God and he is shown in all these different religions, at different times for different cultures. Thats what I would do, instead of forcing one view, saying you have free will (sorta).

This is what worries me the most. How often has government and other individuals used writings to inspire people to do certain things? How many times in the bible have you seen where man could have made a story up, put it in a book and used it as the ultimate weapon against it's own people to keep them in check. How many? Reminds me a lot of modern day "terrorist states".

Finally, if God is as they say in the bible, why did God not provide details for us in the future? Maybe God did and it's locked in the Vatican. More likely though, it is because the religion is man made. God may be very real, but religion is not what they claim it to be. I do think there is a God or gods who want me to discover them. In my own way, away from these man made propaganda tools, or deeply personal stories that may have been used to sway the public in favor of their view. Sorta like the Giffords tragedy and the spin we see.

There are so many easy questions that you cannot have answered. Why?

reply to post by UFORacer56

Why were some books omitted from the bible and are still locked away in the Vatican? If they truly are not truthful, why not release them?

Are you serious?
The Vatican?
Don't you realize if they had their way, no one would even know how to read?
Get with reality, dude and I don't mean to be disrespectful to you but the printing press
is not something the Vatican approved of.
Freedom of the Press. Why is that the First Amendment?
Think about that for a while, like every day for the rest of your life.

reply to post by UFORacer56


Thank you for your story, I grew up in an Assembly of God church. I then moved on to Southern Baptist. I'm not really sure why. I have always tried to reconcile science with the Bible, but too many questions came up that I decided to just ignore them

I'm not ignoring them anymore. I think I'll find the true God through my life's adventures.

Originally posted by FeedTic

Originally posted by AQuestion
Dear FeedTic,

I will try and answer you; however, in the end only you can determine what you believe. It does say God answers our prayers, it does not say the answer is yes and it does not say when he will answer.

In one of my earlier posts I quoted this from the Bible:

18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

That does not say that sometimes the answer will be no. To me right now the answer that "Sometimes God says no", "It's not Gods will", and "It will be answered in God's time not ours" sounds like an all too easy out. Thats why I said in my original post that I could probably pray to the Sun and get the same results.

From others replies, I am getting the feeling that I should just meditate and try to get closer to God. Throw out the Bible as the Word of God and just concentrate on feeling God in and around me. Forget prayer and just try to move in God's presence.

Lets define prayer. The verse you quote says "if you have faith" then what you pray for will occur. Now faith is a belief that one will act on (trusting in what you believe to the point where all your actions are in conformance with your belief). Jesus said that the bible could be summed up with "Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself". Okay, if you have the right faith than anything you prayed for would be in accordance with God's will for us. The answer to our prayers is in seeing that we are in agreement with Gods will. The "miracle" does not occur because we prayed, the miracle is that we were in agreement with Gods will.

The bible is Gods word; however, it says that you can find him in nature and in existence. If you choose (and that is a personal decision) to only look within yourself, you can still find him. If you choose to study the different religions it may give some insight, why ignore thousands of years of study by people just like us? One of the greatest proofs of God is that we can be alone and still know that we are not completely alone, that is inside ourselves. We can feel within ourselves that others are real, that consciousness exists beyond ourselves.

reply to post by AQuestion
Here's a quote from Got Questions? .org:
"If we have not placed our faith in God's Son alone to save us from our sins, then our pursuit of holiness is in vain."
This seems to be a recurring theme in Christianity.
I wonder if someone can substantiate this claim somehow.
There is this statement by Jesus where this person say, "I cast out demons in your name." (or something like that) The answer to that person in his story is, "I know you not."
See a problem here?
The guy obviously knew Jesus and his name. The problem is not that the man did not know the name, Jesus, but that Jesus did not know him.
So, how do have Jesus know us?
I think, and tell me if I am wrong, that the connection between us is this fragile thread and if we mistreat that thread, then there is no connection.
"Well, surely I believe in God and want to be a good person and I'm sure it will be fine, but there is this little thing I want, and it's just such a little thing, and I am sure that if I indulge myself this time, it will not affect the whole thing, and just look at how wicked the world is and all the evil and death everywhere, what is this little thing in comparison? I love Jesus and I really want to go to heaven, after I have this little object of my desire."
Like Eve and this little piece of fruit in the midst of the garden, how could that make a difference, right?

reply to post by jmdewey60


I assume for the moment that we are on the same page. It is not about the name it is about the love, the willingness to do for others. It is about being of a same mind. Even the demons know his name and that he is lord, that does not get salvation, he said if we love him we would do his will and his will was that we be in service to one another. I can live with that.

I truly love what you said about the one more trinket the person wanted. I call them "cookies" they can be round things or shiny things but in the end they are just cookies or goodies. We can chase the cookie or do the thing that is best for everyone. Most choose to chase the cookie and not learn; but, they can learn and they will. Be well.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I assume for the moment that we are on the same page. It is not about the name it is about the love, the willingness to do for others. It is about being of a same mind. Even the demons know his name and that he is lord, that does not get salvation, he said if we love him we would do his will and his will was that we be in service to one another. I can live with that.

Because Christ didn't manifest Himself as an angel to redeem them. they cannot be forgiven. The Bible says the Nephilim cannot be redeemed either. Nor the Rephaim. Christ came as a man, died to save mankind. They can be forgiven/redeemed to God, the others cannot.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I think I understand what you said. I myself do not know who or what can redeem themselves, eternity is a long time. I choose to focus on what I can do to help and leave the rest to God. Isn't it wonderful that we can all take our journey and investigate what we choose and come to our own conclusions. Be well and have a great day.

Originally posted by FeedTic
I have been a Christian since I was 6 years old. I'm now almost 40 and I just don't see how God helps anyone. I mean I pray, my wife prays, and other people I know pray, but the prayers are randomly answered. The bible says that when two or more people come together and pray for the same thing that the prayer will be answered. In my experiences the prayers are hardly ever answered.

I know that there is always an out for the faithful. "It wasn't God's will" or "It will be answered in God's timing not ours." How convenient. I bet I could pray to the Sun and get the the same answers.

Anyway, I'm at a crossroad. Do I continue the path toward God, or do I turn away and follow my own path. I bet I get the same results either direction.

Is anyone else at this crossroad, or have been there? What did you do? What caused you to take the road that your on?

I hope this was the right forum to post this. If not, Mods please move. Thanks.

The Riley Family has definitely been there. Both adult members were raised Christian but found that when questions arose, the answers that came out of the churches made absolutely no sense at all. It was surprising how many follow after "you just have to have faith". A faith based on ignorance doesn't make any sense and doesn't come from the bible. We came to realize their doctrines are not biblical either. That should not be a surprise though because the scriptures themselves make many statements for this being the case.

So are you looking for the truth or just an easier road? Just remember when Christ was here he healed and fed and cared for the people but they killed him anyway because they did not like what he said and did. Interestingly the ancestors of the Gentiles blame the Jews for killing Christ when the bible clearly states he was actually mocked and flogged and crucified at the hands of the Gentiles. So why do Christians continue to blame the Jews when it was the Christian's ancestors that did the killing? Should one really think that these kind of people would understand God's word? When a person finds the truth how do you think these kind of people would treat them if they are willing to treat the Lord the way did? Even Christ made it very clear when he said "don't worry about tomorrow because today has enough trouble of its own".

The Lord says to "test all things and hold onto that which is good". It would seem obvious the church doctrine fails the test. Check this out though. In Matthew it states "many will come in my name claiming to be me" and he says to not follow after them. He also states in Revelation "I will give you my knew name" and "he has a name written that no one knows but he himself". It should not be such a shock that the name Jesus adds up to 616 which is the number of the antichrist and 666 reveals the four elements of the crucifix. Check out the prophecies of the antichrist and you will see the doctrines of today's jesus that is taught in the churches is not the christ that is in the bible. It says in the bible they would follow after doctrines of demons and worship idols. Christ prophesied about the beast who is the head of the churches of today when he said Lord Lord why have you forsaken me.

We turned from jesus when we found no support from him but rather the opposite and we realize now how much of a blessing that was because it brought us to search for the Lord in the scriptures and not in the churches. That is why we did not find it too much of a shock that the name jesus adds up to the number of the beast 616 and 666 reveals the four elements of the crucifix making it the image of the beast.