I'm starting to lose my faith in God and Jesus.

They say when you talk to God it's prayer, but when God talks to you, it's schizophrenia.

Listen to the voice within, that is where God can be found.

reply to post by FeedTic


Prayer is a waste of time my friend... talking to God is also a waste of time...Its not that "he" doesn't listen...but try to keep in mind he isn't a genie. God doesn't grant wishes. Its just not the way it works.

How can you possibly understand God when you're doing all the talking....and not listening. Where ever it says in the bible, as you stated "two or more people come together for the same reason etc etc" that is clearly a rewriten part of the bible, or added after the fact if you will. God doesn't want people to get together and worship him...If you like read this...

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Another of the many reasons church is a waste of time as well...

Regardless of this passage, im still saying prayer is a waste of time because again you're not listening...

Follow your own path my friend, that is truely what God wants. In following your own path you will experience life, and through your experiences in life you will learn your lessons which is why we're all here.

If you truely want to "pray" to God, meditation is how you should do it. This way not only do you develop your own spirit, but you're listening to him... Again don't expect God to start chit chating with you, but in time with practice you will know God. He wants a personal relationship with you, and while praying may seem to be the right thing, the fact is you're doing all the talking and none of the listening.

reply to post by Akragon


Mr know it all gets it wrong too.

Your post is wrong too. As much as others are wrong in wanting things your post is wrong in the other direction.

Faith is not something you will ever answer fact.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by Akragon

 

Mr know it all gets it wrong too.

Your post is wrong too. As much as others are wrong in wanting things your post is wrong in the other direction.

Faith is not something you will ever answer fact.

Great reply....just wrong eh...

reply to post by FeedTic

I have been a Christian since I was 6 years old. I'm now almost 40 and I just don't see how God helps anyone. I mean I pray, my wife prays, and other people I know pray, but the prayers are randomly answered. The bible says that when two or more people come together and pray for the same thing that the prayer will be answered. In my experiences the prayers are hardly ever answered.

In my opinion a prayer is all about to receive God´s Grace and how to forgive and to love our fellow humans — both close and distant alike. But beside that, the bible also teaching us how to pray, with "Humility" and "Humbleness". There is a parable that teaches us about Humility and Humbleness in my opinion.

"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in a week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted". (Lk. 18:9-14)

Anyway, I'm at a crossroad. Do I continue the path toward God, or do I turn away and follow my own path. I bet I get the same results either direction.

Is anyone else at this crossroad, or have been there? What did you do? What caused you to take the road that your on?

You know, sometimes the circumstances of life are so hard that it is extremely difficult to find the right decision. It happens to all of us. There are times, when you feel that the rhythm of your life, has become so strained and so complicated, that the very foundations of faith seems to collapse. It happens all the time, that our "Faith" is been put to a test. In my opinion all you can do is to ask God’s guidance and help.

Hope that helps.

Peace

Freedom from religion is one of the greatest freedoms you can experience. From being taught in the churches that you are worthless, sinful, and deserving of eternal torture, that you must bow down and believe with all your heart to knowing that you are a wonderful product of billions of years of evolution through which you can trace your family tree all the way back to the first organisms that ever squirmed in the primordial mud...and even further if you go down to the atomic level where everything that you are made of was formed in the hearts of exploding stars.
If prayer was effective in any way, there would be no hospitals, no police stations, no burn clinics, no cancer centers, no fire stations and you would never have to buy insurance of any kind. Hinging hope to a prayer is setting yourself up for disappointment. To those who would disagree with that statement, how many amputees have regenerated limbs due to prayer? I've seen many prayers fail, most notably the ones that only could have come about by supernatural means. There may have been some intelligence behind creation - way back at the very beginning, but to the best of my knowledge all it has ever required of life in general is that it survives.
To me, religion is a waste. Belief and servitude of ANY god is a waste of time, money, intelligence, and effort. Religion is nothing more than a shady business masquerading as a moral pillar, feeding off of ignorance and fear, all the while fleecing the flock and hiding it's own nasty secrets....also destroying those who would rise up against it. I can't say that I hate god. I hate god as much as I hate unicorns and mermaids.
Once you get rid of the garbage, you can see what a sweet experience being alive is....you'll understand how lucky you are to be here. There may be another life after this one. I cannot say for sure. It doesn't really matter at all anyway. If there were a previous life to this one, I had no idea then there would be a next one - nor would it have mattered.
If I told you I would send you $100,000 if you sent me $1,000 - would you do it? Would you want proof? If you would want proof - then congratulations, you're normal. It IS normal to ask for evidence whenever confronted with something unbelievable. If you wanted proof, and the proof I offered you was "There a lots of people that have at least $100,000" - would that be acceptable proof? Of course not. They could have gotten that money through other means. The same goes with proof of god. The proof of existence of god being creation. Creation has been shown to have evolved (arrived in existence through naturally occurring phenomena) - without any supernatural events whatsoever.

You asked for an opinion - this is mine.
You have to make up your own mind. Don't believe a single word I've said. Do the research yourself and see what you find.

Originally posted by FeedTic
I have been a Christian since I was 6 years old. I'm now almost 40 and I just don't see how God helps anyone. I mean I pray, my wife prays, and other people I know pray, but the prayers are randomly answered. The bible says that when two or more people come together and pray for the same thing that the prayer will be answered. In my experiences the prayers are hardly ever answered.

I know that there is always an out for the faithful. "It wasn't God's will" or "It will be answered in God's timing not ours." How convenient. I bet I could pray to the Sun and get the the same answers.

Anyway, I'm at a crossroad. Do I continue the path toward God, or do I turn away and follow my own path. I bet I get the same results either direction.

Is anyone else at this crossroad, or have been there? What did you do? What caused you to take the road that your on?

I hope this was the right forum to post this. If not, Mods please move. Thanks.

Some of what is said is true the sun does rise and set on both the good and the wicked.

Your prayers that are not getting answered may be because of your choices.
Do you thank God daily for the food on your table, the time with loved ones, the roof over your head, the transportation to and from places you go, the clothes upon your back?

Do you give God the Glory in the things that happen in your life or do you take the glory for your accomplishments?

Do you abide in his commandments? Do you hate the sins that he hates? Do you love that which he loves?
Do you forgive others as he forgives you?

Realize God does give you a lot your daily life is at his pleasure and he supplies what you need, if you are not repentant in your walk and continue to do that which is wrong in his sight then this may be why you do not get the answers you seek.

Matt.5

1. [12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

The world is but a short time for your eternal soul which is housed within this worldly body. Your heart knows that God is but your worldly body is being caught up in treasures of the now.

Seek for your souls sake not your body as the choice you make to follow or not is not a temporal one, for the pleasure or torment of eternity is forever.

reply to post by sykickvision


You say asking for proof is normal.

And claim that evolution which has not proved any of what you claim. It is based upon variation and adaptation.
Life from non life does not happen without a supernatural power.

But as for proof sedimentary rock which is a great portion of the earth is proof that a earth shattering flood occurred. Giant grave yards of fossils is proof that what it says about destroying all living creatures outside of the ark is true. Huge coal fields on many land masses is proof that a large amount of the earth was scoured clean by a catastrophic flood. This is just some of the visible proof of the truth behind the bible.

Symbiotic relation ships through out is another proof that creation through a designer had to have taken place,
Random happenstance has never created anything.

The physical body does not listen to the spiritual portion hence you seek logic yet deny your feelings.

I went to a strict church since I was young. At age 20 I was kicked out because my hair was past my shoulders. This separation from the church crushed me because I thought I needed it to be with God.

I spent a great deal of time praying to try keep up with what I was always taught as being essential to finding/being with God and keeping on His good side without the church I thought I needed in order to be loved and accepted by Him.

Nothing was working. My prayers were not answered and I was getting nothing out of it, so one day a few years later I stopped praying .....and started listening.

I noticed I kept thinking of phrases that seemed really poetic or wisdom like, such as - "God is the original source of energy, from that which we came, so shall we all return. He is perfect because He does not lack anything to be completed by it."

I liked them so much I felt I needed to write them down to stare at them and contemplate their meaning.

I asked questions in my head and wrote the answers that came from the silence into a journal. At the start the answers were a little forced from my own mind but slowly the answers started to become real and I was actually learning things that amazed me with its clarity and wisdom that had never sounded so true before.

God is like something you cannot explain because I saw the face of God, yet I never saw him. God spoke to me yet I never once heard him talking. The answer that was first, ends up being the last. To find the beginning you first have to be at the end and to have an answer to your question you must first question the answer etc etc etc... And such was it constantly like with my experience with God

Eventually and to this day, I am still reading others peoples wisdom and knowledge that when I read it I immediately think - "Oh my God, I was taught that very thing, this is SO weird"

Prayer is useful in some ways, but useless in others. You cant hear God talking when all you are doing is praying. The only way to hear him is to ask him to answer the door within yourself and listen into the silence for His Word.

I am not a Christian anymore, I am a Mystic. I don't need the church because the church is already inside of me.

reply to post by andy1033


tell me einstein, who ever prayed to die of a disease, be abused, raped, starved, imprisoned, poor,??

oh, so we are like god... immature, incapable of forgiveness, malicious, vengeful, jealous, insecure about "himself" (requires worship), unfair, petty, never got over the apple of knowledge adam and eve thing.. by the way i guess we are all inbred then.

gee, dinosaurs? cavemen? oohh i know, i know..

who "wrote" the bible and why.. how many versions are there.. what he said is what he said right, how could a fact have many different statements? wouldn't it all be the same.. yet matt, mark, luke, john, can't even agree on the simplest of things..

so, have you ever heard of the sumerian texts, the epic of gilgamesh, or how about greek mythology.. most christians have never been anywhere, seen anyhting outisde of their fishbowl... hhmmmm

councils of nicea? wow, some corrupt men decided what books to omit/submit into the bible?
crusades?
catholics origin? coincidentally SAME CAPITOL AS THE "roman empire"...hhmmm

every christian religion came from catholicism.. fact..

books of micah, thomas, enoch...there are others i am unaware of right now..

reply to post by rebeldog


every christian religion came from catholicism.. fact..

Proof please

Because from my understanding of the Bible the original churches were not Catholic but Pentecostal in nature,

that is speaking in tongues, elders to lay hands on and pray for the sick, being filled with the Holy Ghost,

All of which is rejected by many Catholics and Protestant churches alike.

Just because the Catholics claim Paul as their founder does not mean he worshiped or acted anything like them.

I would suggest you Read the Book of Acts to see how the beginning churches were.

May the Lord Jesus bless you.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


I don't recall asking you for your input. I merely stated my opinion, and then immediately following that also added "DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT I HAVE SAID, DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF"

Even the pope has credited evolution as being the way god created the animals and life on earth.
How did life originate? I do not know. Yet injecting god into the conversation as an answer merely replaces a question with another question. Who is god? Where did he come from? Where is he now?
While you're thanking him, you can also thank him for intestinal parasites, polio, aids, smallpox, tornados, earthquakes, cancer, leukemia, sickle cell anemia, malaria, h1n1 (wait, that was us)....
Giant graveyards of fossils prove that a lot of things died. Unless they find stone tablets in the same rock layer with the 10 commandments etched on them by divine power - I'll concede that anything could have contributed to their death.
Natural selection is not "by chance" - it passes on characteristics mostly beneficial to survival and reproduction. You're saying things don't mutate?
Some of the newest coal is about...eh....a million years old or so. Humans weren't even around then. Much less Noah. All that says is that there used to be a forest in a swampy area(s), it got buried and as the land masses moved it got covered for a LONG time under high pressure and heat. You're saying that all the coal was formed in 40 days?

Originally posted by sykickvision
reply to post by ACTS 2:38

 

I don't recall asking you for your input. I merely stated my opinion, and then immediately following that also added "DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT I HAVE SAID, DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF"

Even the pope has credited evolution as being the way god created the animals and life on earth.
How did life originate? I do not know. Yet injecting god into the conversation as an answer merely replaces a question with another question. Who is god? Where did he come from? Where is he now?
While you're thanking him, you can also thank him for intestinal parasites, polio, aids, smallpox, tornados, earthquakes, cancer, leukemia, sickle cell anemia, malaria, h1n1 (wait, that was us)....
Giant graveyards of fossils prove that a lot of things died. Unless they find stone tablets in the same rock layer with the 10 commandments etched on them by divine power - I'll concede that anything could have contributed to their death.
Natural selection is not "by chance" - it passes on characteristics mostly beneficial to survival and reproduction. You're saying things don't mutate?
Some of the newest coal is about...eh....a million years old or so. Humans weren't even around then. Much less Noah. All that says is that there used to be a forest in a swampy area(s), it got buried and as the land masses moved it got covered for a LONG time under high pressure and heat. You're saying that all the coal was formed in 40 days?

You do not adhere to these people yet you quote them how interesting.

As for me I research everything I own public school text books filled with the lies of evolution.

I can understand how it does not work yet most, which may include yourself, believe everything that is posted, written or told to them; because the person spewing the lie is educated (which really means trained) at a public indoctrination center.

As for not wanting my input do not post anything that can be commented on. or put me on your ignore list.

reply to post by sykickvision


Some of the newest coal is about...eh....a million years old or so. Humans weren't even around then. Much less Noah. All that says is that there used to be a forest in a swampy area(s), it got buried and as the land masses moved it got covered for a LONG time under high pressure and heat. You're saying that all the coal was formed in 40 days?

First off you did not research your claim of forty days, The waters were upon the earth for quite a lot longer Noah was in the Ark for nearly a year so most of the earth would have been under water for most of that time.

As for Dating the coal to millions of years I Can say the same for your presupposition, unless there is a piece with a date stamp upon it there is no proof of its age.

All of the dating methods used in science are flawed as they believe (that is the same a faith) that the way things are today is the way it has always been.

No record to show if atmospheric conditions were different and have speed up or slow down effects, magnetic decay has been recorded for at least 160 years yet do they account for that in the decay processes of other elements, solar activity, volcanic activity, leaching, exposure, burial all have effects upon radio active decay yet you do not know this.

Live animals have been carbon dated at tens of thousands of years old, if that happens then how can any test subject that is supposed to be millions of years old be used with out some one who was there to document the formation of said specimen

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


real convenient you answered this most immaterial question i posted,, please elaborate on my other reply questions if you will..

please understand that i WISH it were all true.. i DO consider you a brother, i care so much about people i try to "save" them from the corrupt mindf--k christians are under, you sound like a very compassioante person like myself..

to people fighting each other to help each other.. irony, no? i merely post questions to anyone with an open mind.. "god" is purposefully being an ineffective communicator, as it is the communicator's responsibility to modify their approach to being understood by those those are communicating to. to intentionally allow all the people over time to kill each other because "god" couldn't simply restate "his" message in a clearer manner proves the assinninity of the whole religion mumbo-jumbo..
example..
imagine a river filled with hungry piranha, and your job was to get across it. Only I was the only one who knew where the bridge was. expected you to get across, told you there was a way across but you say "what, i didn't quite catch that" "can you elaborate a liitle bit on where the bridge is" i respond "....." but hey if you get eaten swimming across don't worry, that was my plan


i belive their is a CREATOR of some sort..

To all of those who asked if I gave thanks and glory to God during my prayers. Yes, I did. Most of my prayer was giving thanks for each and every day, whether it was a good day or bad.

Do I give thanks at every meal? Yes, I did that too. I would pray before every meal, even at restaurants.

Did I take time to just listen for God? Yes, I did. I would sometimes here my own voice in my head, but it felt like my own mind, not God.

Why is the God of the Old Testament so much different from the God of the New Testament? The Old Testament God would order genocide on people who were not Hebrew. God was one bad dude raining fire down on cities flooding the world to kill all the bad people.

The New Testament God is so loving. God loves even the sinner. We have grace through Jesus Christ even though his chosen people do not believe. Our debt of sin has been paid, all we have to do is believe Jesus died for us. What a radical change from the Old Testament.

If God is perfect, then why such a change?

Originally posted by FeedTic

Originally posted by TuXXXeR
I don't fall under any religious title as I don't trust anything that has had so much time to change. It is not origional. Case in point, one of the most reveered religious texts in history 'the bible' has had books taken out, and has been so over translated that the real meaning could have been lost.

Exactly! Either the Bible is the true word of God or it isn't. What if it isn't? What are we to believe then?

I usually stay out of these threads, but I feel you with empathy and I wanted to support you and your thread. I have had these struggles in my life. I don't think Humans can know the mind of God, or understand really. The whole Bible can be looked at as written in code. Then you can frame it against the whole message, to include the messages that were similar before - from other cultures that are written in code. Do some research on the story of Horus. It can't be literal, I mean Noah's ark - really - and I know that is a real challenge for some. Sounds like maybe that is more of the problem in your search for peace . . . you have been exposed to only the literal belief systems were every word was the forged word of God, directly - no questions asked, then sent down here to be taken verbatuim.

Maybe it is not your faith exactly - it is your faith sect (as in practice) in what man has told you to believe. If you really look historically at things like the Council of Nicea - well? How can some groups take a stance that this is the absolute solid unquestionable word of God, which translation exactly, don't they have an understanding of Biblical translations and things like this Council were a group of men sat around a voted? Maybe you will find solace in starting there - just opening yourself to the concept of that and sort of sitting with it if that is ok with you. A step at a time so to speak. Look at the history of Christianity - how it has changed and developed over time. You will have to consider the Catholic Church both Roman and Orthodox, then consider the Reformation - finally down to the pew you sit in or sat in or are influenced by depending on your geographical location. (ie. Bible Belt)

One day I was just free associating and I thought what if Jesus wasn't real at all, but a myth. Then I thought OK, but why the myth? Some people assert it is all a myth. Then it can be asked "Well OK, why?" -
People might say man's search for meaning, we created Religion out of anxiety. I can't say I know all the answers but somehow during all my questing THAT is the part that became OK. Not Knowing, Not needing to Know.

Read the book of Job, all the arguing about it, how and why Job should feel, and practice - and finally God comes and speaks directly to Job and says to him - who are you to know the mind of God? Did you make the sun rise, did you put the stars in the sky? Church, and Church homes . . . sometimes tell you exactly what God thinks - that is the problem. Who are we to know the infinate creator and cause others duress by stressing them out with legalism?

I wish you peace on this journey, depending on where you are - it may be more difficult to find this peace. My faith has become just a whole lot more about trust . . . and it is certainly not the trust in what other human beings are saying. Of course my fundy friends have dropped me because I am too new age now. I am leaning towards Quaker. They meditate on the light of the spirit in a round room. No pulpit. No pounding interpretation. Open waiting. That appeals to me.

Maybe you will take some solace in hearing even the Pope is opening to the idea of the big bang - though he claims God did it. I am not Catholic but I applaud this. Good Luck. Your heart is pure, it is ok to question. To seek. From my own experience I am more religious when I am not around religion. Meaning church wrecks it for me. The miracle of sunshine through a dew drop - brings it all back. It is all around you, it is not in a book and it is certainly not in other human beings - it is beyond comprehension. This is of course just my humble opionion.

reply to post by rebeldog


Brilliant response Rebel, nail on the head. You are dead right in your observation of religion and reality. And there is so so much more that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever!

The bible is what?? The bible is a morale guide. It is simply a way to give us humans our sense of right and wrong. If you really think about it that is the goal the author had in mind.

It's the bible... Or the Koran... Or the torah... Not the ''Human's Guide to Ethics and Morale Issues'' that would sell i'd say; Today! Because we are informed enough to understand it. But thousands of years ago people needed a story to explain what realistically is just advanced ethics. Laiyman's terms, pun intended.

Non religious, scientific types arrived at these conclusions by themselves in the classical age. Slavery was abolished only recently in the timeline of religion. That's why the new testament is the way it is, totally different than the old testament! Because its an ethical and morale guide for humanity.

Wow...

reply to post by FeedTic


God is Perfect

What is seen can be destroyed, therefore cant truly be real.

What is unseen is eternal.

Once the seen of this reality is destroyed (the world and the entire universe), whats left (the eternal, energy,souls,love,wisdom etc) returns to God to rejoin Perfection and become perfect.

God is omnipresent and omnipotent. He is everywhere at once and in every thing. With this in mind, we for lack of better words, are all in the mind of God, We are a thought - He thought about us and so we became. To be away from us and somewhere else means He is not omnipresent.

A book and what has been written is seen, and is imperfect.

Yet spiritual wisdom (the Word) is unseen, and perfect.

Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by FeedTic

 

In my opinion a prayer is all about to receive God´s Grace and how to forgive and to love our fellow humans — both close and distant alike. But beside that, the bible also teaching us how to pray, with "Humility" and "Humbleness".

The Bible also says this:

18 Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. 19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

21 Jesus replied, “Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”

So Immanuel, God on earth, said this. "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." Well, I believed for a long time. I have not received what I asked for very often. I'm not talking using God as a vending machine. I'm talking about prayers for the sick or destitute. Prayers for others to receive blessings. It seems so random that it doesn't have anything to do with prayer.