Head to the hills.......... what?

reply to post by taccj9903

Children would be my downfall! I would give all I had to them. I only have one grandchild to provide for so if you bring kids, you're a shoe in! I would lay down my life, my needs to provide for children. I would go hungry so they could eat - yours, your neighbors, your enemies children.

reply to post by bertapearl


Great thread OP - S&F! Bertapearl hit the main point here - responsibility & accountability.

It's not city vice country - it's responsible & accountable vice not being responsible & accountable. This is the under tone of conversation & replies in what I hear.

How many of us on ATS & elsewhere have spoken to others nearest us/closest to us, and discussed this very scenario? How many of us received the response "I'll just go to your house", instead of preparing themselves.
In the city - hunker down. Same in country. The ultimate point is responsibility & accountability.

No resources? How is it someone else's issue if someone has no resources for whatever for their family. Did someone place you in that scenario or were your choices in life what led you there?

Truth is harsh and self reflection/criticism is the ultimate root of this issue. Live in city but would prefer the rural life? It was by choice - that simple & vice versa. Anything else is justification and excuses.

Working together is the key to the utopia many of us would love to see - how many will complain "I need to be fed, while smoking a cigarette?" I've seen it time & again during hurricanes when power is out in areas. "We need someone to bring us food for our kids" and it's only been 24 hours, but they knew days ahead a Cat 2-3 was coming, knew they SHOULD prepare, but also knew someone else would be the answer.

THIS is the key here - and I give it to the OP for bringing this up, but can we go deeper & not separate here, cause we know that's how the world got here to begin with.

My choice was rural and self preservation/independence. No, not lucky. I made it happened because I chose it.
Whatever your scenario or domicile or situation - sometime in your life you chose your placement, regardless of TPTW crud we've all been eating.

I hear discussions back & forth over "you should help someone if they need it". I agree. "Some don't have the resources that others do". THAT is the key factor for whatever reason, and leave the reasons out of it, they are irrelavent, because everyone has them that are worse than the others. I hear, "so you won't help" kinda finger pointing - but that is only redirection from your own lack of responsibility & accountability.

In the end - we all want to make it better, but many will be faced with the decision to HAVE to help others or not. The sad thing is just that - why should some HAVE to make that decision if the other would've taken responsibility for themselves.

To put someone else in that position of HAVING to choose is the crueler issue.

It's really painful where this is all headed. Just my 2 cents. Peace all!

reply to post by SeenMyShare



I can't find it now but there was a post not too long ago about this scenario or maybe the post was on something similar that turned down this road. Anyway, it was brought up that someone might venture on to your land and you might catch him stealing your vegetables out of your garden. You shoot him for looting, but what you didn't know was that he had two children who he was just trying to get food for.

It would definitely be a horrible time to live for anyone with an ounce of compassion. Like many others have brought up it would be a time for people to band together instead of fighting over resources, there is never any winner down that road.

reply to post by SeenMyShare

Well that was a nice post, and I appreciate you replying to mine. Honestly, I think there's a world of difference between the US and the UK. Here, we have such a lack of rural land that it really is only the upper-classes and inheritors who can live there. An acre of rural land in England which has permission to build upon I'd hazard guess ranges from £40,000 ($60,000) in the cheapest areas to £80,000 ($120,000) in my part of the country. Land that you can't build on is maybe a third of that or something. So, not really comparable to prices in your part of the world. We just don't have enough space. Nevertheless, the English countryside is my birthright, and if the SHTF you can bet I'll be nestling right up to those upper classes in their plush rural homes if I need to. Most of them aren't there because they passionately love the countryside and isolation, they're their because they were born into such fortune.

As for mod cons and unnecessary expenditures - I'm with you. My fiance and I live very simply and within our means. The issue is simply that my country is overpopulated and so property ownership requires very high paying jobs. I could adopt the rat-race mentality, don a suit and work my way towards a £40,000 salary, but that would be defeating the very nature within me that does yearn for nature and wilderness.

But I can see that you deserve to be where you are, and I can understand your will to defend your hard-earned territory. It's a different story where I am. I can see that if I lived in America I'd already be deep in the countryside.

reply to post by taccj9903

This is the comment you refer to:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and here was my reply to that:

We aren't blessed with money, just other people of like minds. If stuff gets bad at their location they'll come here. If it gets bad here we'll go there. That's doable for anyone with good friends. I'll reserve further comment until you've read more of my posts. Edit to add: if she's willing to carry water, or garden, or cook, or do laundry, or any of a myriad of chores that will need done she'd be welcome to stay!

reply to post by taccj9903


Tacc: Key point - compassion. Also, the scenario - "they had kids, but needed to feed them".

Please see my above post - that is REALLY key. Someone else is the answer?

We can go so many rounds of scenarios - how do you get others to actually care about being responsible & accountable for themselves? Ban together - is an attempt with others like discussing what's going on in the world and not the latest Saints game or Survivor winner.

What was the movie - Legally Blonde 2 - Sally Field made a statement that is so true - "You can't get the people to care".

reply to post by Cythraul

I'm going to really show my colors here I guess, but heck, what's one more comment that ticks everyone off?

My heart goes out to those of you in the smaller countries with no where to go, no way to get back to basics, no place to put a seed in the ground and watch it grow, bloom and produce, or to eat the produce of your own sweat and tears. I have a ever growing disgust for the elite, the top of the ladder people who have no time, no use for the vast majority of people. Those who've built their fortunes on the backs of the hard working peoples of their lands who will never give anything back in gratitude for where they are now. I can only hope that those inheritors are not as savvy, aware or prepared as you. As I said before, I pray nothing ever goes catastrophically wrong with the world because there will be suffering and death of unimaginable proportions and too many will die needlessly.

Click here for more information.

First of all its not your woods or mountains but being the American we are and always be you will be in the illusion of ownership. Anyone that crosses over your ownership you will either kill or run off which will give you a whole new set of problems.


Besides...not many make it so there will be no Hill big enough to protect you. Not even the military underground facilities are safe

reply to post by taccj9903


TBH that person gets what they deserve, and I feel sorry that those kids had parents like that. It is not right for you to go into someone else's crops and steal, plain and simple. At least one person has sweat and bled for that crop to be there. Having kids does not give you a right to steal the fruits of someone else's labor. That is the mentality that makes us jumpy, if people think they can come and steal food from us, a small jump in desperation the same kind of people might just feel justified in coming in and killing to take the whole crop for themself and theirs. If someone sneaks onto my property, they will get put down. Someone approaches in the open, unarmed for a chat, that is another story. If there is some crazy scenario that happens, it will be me, pops, mom, and at least 10 of my crazy uncles hunkering down and pooling our resources. First thing that will happen is we blow the bridge that leads to "civilization", only one road in to these parts, you won't be getting here by vehicle that's for sure.

Originally posted by SeenMyShare
I see a recurring theme over and over here on ATS, and that's the number of people who will "head to the hills". I can tell you that if that is your plan you best be getting your destination location pinpointed and arranging for rent or purchase and shelter now. If the SHTF many of us already in the country/hills/boonies will not take kindly to a bunch of city folk pouring in and squatting on our farmlands, in our woods, and on our mountains acting as if they have the right to be there..

Excuse me?? "YOUR mountains?" "YOUR woods?" When the sh hits the fan, if we come out to the "rural" areas which you appear to own all of, and receive any flack from local people WE WILL USE DEADLY FORCE TOO.. You see you won't be the only ass with a gun so being polite will go much farther then being an asshole because any assholes when law breaks down will certainly be shot. Acting like you own the wilderness.. Id shoot you like a wild pig..

Now is the time to find that wilderness location and secure it for yourself. Don't think that those of us already in the rural locations will welcome you with open arms.

If you don't you will just get shot yourself..

Its nearly as dangerous for bug outers in the wilds as it will be in the cities, except in the wilds you'll be faced with folk who know how to live there, know the area well, and will in most cases use deadly force to protect it.

You mean you are suicidal? I can see that.

reply to post by SeenMyShare
Tell me,......what will you do when you have 15-20 well armed people storming your property? The desperate hordes will group together and head to the hills to take what they need once there is nothing left in the cities. You might take some of them out but they will get you eventually. The key to survival is to maintain an invisible presence, secure and conceal all your supplies and never reveal yourself. If you have people squatting on your land, let them. If you start taking them out, people will realize your presence and that you have things worth protecting and will eventually get those things no matter what you do.

Once the SHTF, no one will own any land. Laws will no longer exists and any official entitlement you have to your property will be null and void. When the SHTF I`ll have just as much right to your land as you do, just as it should be.

reply to post by libertytoall

Ok, here we go again. Why are you waiting until bad things happen to find a rural location? Why, because I'm already here, do I owe you a part of what I have? Do you owe me any part of what is yours? I am the one who gives up the conveniences of city life for room to plant, harvest and store. I choose to live rurally and you choose to live urbanly. Why does that give you the right to move in on me? Should 1000 people just decide to move into your apartment or the hallways of your high rise? If you have a months worth of food in your home and everyone on your street knows it, do you just throw open your doors and invite 200 people in for dinner? From the sound of it that's what you're saying, but in reality what you are saying is what's yours is yours and what's mine is yours!

Generosity only goes so far. Anyone who knows me knows I'll give the shirt off my back to help people out but when they come to me and tell me I owe them my shirt I draw the line. If I've prepared and you haven't how is it that I owe you?

I needed to add this. Generally people who live in cities do so for better jobs, with better money. Why? So they can buy stuff! Bigger stuff. Better stuff. You know. The American Dream. The cost of living is much higher in the cities than it is in the country but there's no money to be made out here. Urban dwellers are there by choice. They choose. They choose convenience and money over the simple life. To a lot of us living rurally IS the American Dream. We choose not to go after the money but to go after things that can't be bought. I'm a very intelligent woman contrary to what some may think. I could have done very well in the corporate world but would have lost so much of myself in the process. It all comes down to choice, and you CHOOSE to live where you are. You are not willing to be inconvenienced now to prepare for situation that may or may not happen down the road.

reply to post by SeenMyShare


find ways to use the people that do try to find shelter in the woods. dont kill em for trying to help their family live. you would do the same im sure. plenty of land out there to share i think.

reply to post by SeenMyShare


When I see the way city folks treat their homeless, that is the answer to me. Most people just walk by them like they don't even exist in our realm, and these are the people we are supposed to welcome with open arms? They have the police go and destroy people's tents and kick them out of the park, because tent cities are an eyesore to them. But hey, how dare we not let them camp on our land, where is our compassion?

reply to post by TKDRL


hey i am not saying that all people in the cities deserve to tap the wilderness for their resources. 1: most probably cant. 2: many dont deserve it. i live in a city now (not because i want to ill add) but i have lived in a rice farming community my entire life. I have much to contribute to ANYONE out in the sticks trying to make it. there are many like me that would make existence easier on someone or a family making it on their own unless they have been off the grid forever. i cant really compete with that. WTSHTF it can be our great coming together or our great undoing.

I've read throught a lot of this thread and it seems to be getting away from the initial message of the OP. This is how I see it all. If your in a city, stay there. You will probably have a much greater chance of survival in surroundings you already know. Stockpile your dwelling and tell only those who you really trust that you've done so. If your in the country, same goes for you. It works right now, it will work in a SHTF moment. They are two different ways of life and worlds. The people that can't do for themselves will weed each other out fighting and such over what the other has/doesn't have in each world. Trust me, not all people here in the "hills" can hack it here post SHTF, just like not all "city folk" the same. Those in the city/country that are each in the wrong areas will migrate back to where they should be post SHTF. You can't and won't be able to help everyone who might come along, but most of us know who has good intentions and who doesn't. Once all the useless ones have wiped each other out(or been taken out we will be able to start anew. The bartering gates will open, and country/city can remingle and trade up for what they need to replenish. Just make sure in each situation to come in carrying that white flag and fair intentions.

op you selfish, sad little man...the earth is everyone's...if it happens I'll do everything I can to help whoever I can...

This is a good example of how mankind SHOULD NOT be behaving...sad, sad thread created by a selfish person

good luck!

reply to post by TKDRL
Exactly! Bit of a double standard as I see it. They seem to want their cake and eat it too. I'll stay here until I can't ... then I'll come take your place! When the shoe is on the other foot I wonder how many will look back at the "Will work for food" sign some poor beggar was holding up and sneered at them? I myself have taken those people either to a grocery store, or home and fed them. We've had people park their vans, campers and tents on our property and fed them and supplied them with water and electricity while they got their feet back under them. We've cramped our home for total strangers with no place to go for months while their family found work and a place to live. I've gone through my cupboards and emptied out half to families who've fallen on hard times. The think is none of them ever came to me and said I owed it to them.

Another legitimate thing I have not seen brought up... Most city people don't understand how things work, and why we do things a certain way, and really don't care to learn. We let droves of people with guns move in and start shooting any animal they see, well soon there will not be no animals left, period. There is a good reason we only hunt and trap certain animals, or fish certain fish, at a certain time, and only take what we need in a year during that time... To make sure we don't wipe out all the food, we let them be during their mating and birthing periods.