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House Republicans Introduce Bill to Repeal Birthright Citizenship Amendment

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posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


You are again demostrating your absence of knowledge about the matter. Citizenship is inherited. Therefore any child that has at least one citizen as a parent will be an American citizen, too. This would not change.




posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by felonius
 


Wow that post was ignorant as all heck. You do know that the vast majority of Muslims you hate so much come over here legally right?

I am beginning to think the Right doesn't really understand what an illegal immigrant is.


Let's not forget all the Muslims that are BORN here as well. I am sure there is a plan in place to do away with children BORN in the US being allowed to become citizens until they swear an oath to not become Muslim.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Exactly, once the GOP is done shredding the 14th Amendment and stripping everyones citizenship from them, they can move onto that pesky 1st Amendment so that no one will have to endure the horrors of a "terror mosque"



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Exactly, once the GOP is done shredding the 14th Amendment and stripping everyones citizenship from them, they can move onto that pesky 1st Amendment so that no one will have to endure the horrors of a "terror mosque"



Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to influence the opinions and actions of others towards some specific end. The feared object or subject is sometimes exaggerated, and the pattern of fear mongering is usually one of repetition, in order to continuously reinforce the intended effects of this tactic, sometimes in the form of a vicious circle.


en.wikipedia.org...


In debate or rhetoric, a slippery slope (also known as thin edge of the wedge, or the camel's nose) is a classic form of argument, arguably an informal fallacy. A slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step inevitably leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant impact, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom.[1] The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. Modern usage avoids the fallacy by acknowledging the possibility of this middle ground.


en.wikipedia.org...


The heart of the slippery slope fallacy lies in abusing the intuitively appreciable transitivity of implication, claiming that A leads to B, B leads to C, C leads to D and so on, until one finally claims that A leads to Z. While this is formally valid when the premises are taken as a given, each of those contingencies needs to be factually established before the relevant conclusion can be drawn. Slippery slope fallacies occur when this is not done


GOP here, GOP there.. I am surprised anyone still falls for the two-party nonsense, world is not black and white. I am an atheist and (from US perspective) a leftist. But I recognize good law when I see one.
edit on 8/1/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


Ah yes, the absurd "Two Party fallacy" argument, reserved for use when the party one endorses is doing something that is so asinine that no one in their right might should accept it.


I often find that one group is all for blaming the other till their own side is being bashed rightfully, then this argument that there are no actual political differences and somehow everyone actually believes the same thing.

But to let you know, I don't personally hate Muslims, I am not afraid of Muslims, I am not afraid of Latinos, I don't hate Latinos. Amazingly enough, I have my own mind and politically speaking I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.

I actually believe that people should have the right to worship any way they choose and they should be able to build places of worship. I believe that there should be a path to citizenship. I believe that we shouldn't strip everyone of their citizenship.
edit on 1/8/2011 by whatukno because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 





Amazingly enough, I have my own mind and politically speaking I am a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.

I actually believe that people should have the right to worship any way they choose and they should be able to build places of worship. I believe that there should be a path to citizenship. I believe that we shouldn't strip everyone of their citizenship.


All right, I guess then we mostly agree. Now can you tell me, without using abovementioned logical fallacies or latinos, muslims, GOP, what exactly is your problem with this proposed law?
edit on 8/1/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 05:46 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 



Maybe, they will force everyone in the country to pass a citizenship test in order for a person to be deemed WORTHY of citizenship. Otherwise, what? Millions of people with no country?

No. US citizenship is granted two ways under current US law: by being born in the United States or by being born to at least one American citizen. If Congress were to get rid of the granting of citizenship based on where you were born, children could still become citizens if their parents are citizens.

Millions of people wouldn't be "without a country" either because, practically every country in the world grants citizenship based on at least one parent being a citizen. So, in this case, if two Mexicans had a kid in America, they would have to get in contact with the Mexican embassy and go through that process. (Just like Americans have to do when they have kids that are born abroad.)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 05:56 AM
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Life is so funny sometimes.
A nation that was founded by illigal immagrants now doesn't want immigrants coming to their shores.
It's these little ironic things that make life so funny sometimes.
I understand that a nation doesn't want to be a refugee haven, so it has the right to bar anybody it doesn't want there.
But the hypocracy and irony is just to delicious to ignore.

I wonder what would happen if some day the roles are reversed, when US citizens need to flee their country for what ever reason. Will they understand if a country doesn't want them coming there?



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 06:25 AM
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the problem is our country should never have let them come here in the first place. If you work in construction you understand. A person that has to pay taxes cannot compete with someone that doesn't. A persons view is directly related to how it affects them. If illegals don't affect your standard of living it's no big deal but when it does it will be.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


So, instead of enforcing the existing law, the GOP solution is to invalidate everyone's citizenship en masse? Yea, the Conservative "War on Liberty" just marches on with it's ground troops clapping and cheering the entire way.


This line of reasoning is way some are calling to vote out all liberals from any and evey public office. You define liberty by the ability of some to live off the "saftey nets" and the conservatives demand for some end to the maddness as a "war" against these "liberties".



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

Originally posted by WeAreAWAKE
About frickin' time! I sure hope something comes of this.


The sad reality is that if this draconian peice of legislation gets signed me, you and every American here would be immediately stripped of our citizenship because we aren't rich and vote GOP!


No this will simply mean that if the parents of a child are not citizens then their child born in this country wont be ither. And only a dammed fool cant see the wisdom of this under the current set up.

Just cut all of those benifits and see how fast they leave the land of liberty! Make them pay taxes and see how fast they bail. Make them act like a citizen and they are out of here for the most part.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by freedish
 


That was the first thing that came to my mind. Isn't that half the problem
with illegal immigration???? Sounds like a good start. Maybe this Congress
will focus on the REAL problems in our country instead of making more.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


Some of us think Obama is not a natural born citizen, as defined by the Constitution. It does not matter where he was born, whether in Hawaii or elsewhere. By his own admission, his father was Kenyan, under British jurisdiction, therefore he is not a "natural born" citizen. Some of us think this whole "Show the Birth certificate" nonsense is nothing more than an attempted-precedent-setting ploy.
puzo1.blogspot.com...
Also see:
JB Williams, News with Views
Who Cares Where Obama was Born?
www.newswithviews.com...



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by Habit4ming
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


Some of us think Obama is not a natural born citizen, as defined by the Constitution. It does not matter where he was born, whether in Hawaii or elsewhere. By his own admission, his father was Kenyan, under British jurisdiction, therefore he is not a "natural born" citizen. Some of us think this whole "Show the Birth certificate" nonsense is nothing more than an attempted-precedent-setting ploy.
puzo1.blogspot.com...
Also see:
JB Williams, News with Views
Who Cares Where Obama was Born?
www.newswithviews.com...


Some of you believe the world is still flat, not as defined by modern science.
Some of you believe a race of blood drinking lizards from Mars living inside the Earth control everything.
Some of you think empty patches of land are up and running FEMA camps.
Some of you think the Pleadians are going to come save us.

People think things. I knew this thread might be fun though. Watching Glenn Beck fan types collide.

Originally posted by octotom
No. US citizenship is granted two ways under current US law: by being born in the United States or by being born to at least one American citizen. If Congress were to get rid of the granting of citizenship based on where you were born, children could still become citizens if their parents are citizens.


If you guys are not careful, someone might notice you debunking each other over the Obama birther issue in this thread.

edit on 8-1-2011 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


This law does not allow any stripping of citizenship, because its NOT RETROACTIVE. Therefore its purpose cannot be what you claim.


That is where it will start as there is nothing in the text of the doc that we can use as an insurance policy to guarantee that this will be it. It opens up a pandora's box whereas we are inept to handle it.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Originally posted by centurion1211

Extreme right's intolerance of others????

Instead, the left - you included - need to check the mirror to see who really is intolerant of others - intolerant of anyone else who dares to have a different political ideology than a lib is constantly demeaned as not just wrong, but also stupid.

Liberal hypocrisy in action for all to see.



Couching a complaint about the lefts intolerance in a right wing ad hom attack doesn't help your case at all. Adding "you included" to it, to single me out, and make it a personal attack, just proves my point.


Originally posted by centurion1211

As far as your "historical accuracy" goes, I really don't know what you are referring to.



Well, of course you don't. Assuming some knowledge of history in a political forum was probably a bit ambitious on my part.

~Heff
edit on 1/8/11 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by Subjective1
Life is so funny sometimes.
A nation that was founded by illigal immagrants now doesn't want immigrants coming to their shores.
It's these little ironic things that make life so funny sometimes.
I understand that a nation doesn't want to be a refugee haven, so it has the right to bar anybody it doesn't want there.
But the hypocracy and irony is just to delicious to ignore.

I wonder what would happen if some day the roles are reversed, when US citizens need to flee their country for what ever reason. Will they understand if a country doesn't want them coming there?


Saying our ancestors were illegal immigrants is wrong. Here is a some info about Jamestown.



The colony was sponsored by the Virginia Company of London, a group of investors who hoped to profit from the venture. Chartered in 1606 by King James I, the company also supported English national goals of counterbalancing the expansion of other European nations abroad, seeking a northwest passage to the Orient, and converting the Virginia Indians to the Anglican religion.

source


It was backed by the King of England he allowed it to happen. The English didn't come over here illegally. Besides America wasn't a sovereign nation either. It had no government or military, etc. So there was no 'illegal occupation.' You just seem to be suffering from white mans guilt. Allowing illegals to flood into our nation puts a drain on hospitals (look it up they end up closing down because illegals have no insurance and skip out on the bills.) it creates problems in our schools when illegal immigrant children can't or wont learn to speak English. That in turn leads to gang and drug problems.

If you want to wallow in the hell that its created move down to the border states and see what's it like since you're such a bleeding heart liberal.

also there is this for a bit more history:



In the early 1580s, Queen Elizabeth I of England granted Sir Walter Raleigh permission to establish colonies in North America. The land was named Virginia, after Queen Elizabeth who was called the Virgin Queen since she never married. The first two attempts failed. The third attempt, in 1587, succeeded with Virginia Dare being the first British colonist born in American.

source


See again it's backed by the Monarchy. It wasn't an illegal emigration to this land.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 



Originally posted by Logarock

No this will simply mean that if the parents of a child are not citizens then their child born in this country wont be ither. And only a dammed fool cant see the wisdom of this under the current set up.

Just cut all of those benifits and see how fast they leave the land of liberty! Make them pay taxes and see how fast they bail. Make them act like a citizen and they are out of here for the most part.


Actually this presents a huge conundrum regarding our current financial woes because, whether some folks want to admit it or not, illegals do generate tax revenue. Not only do they pay sales and ad velorum taxes but many, as a side effect of working under aliases and assumed identity, actually pay into the tax and Social Security system - money that they will never claim back.

While I do not support illegal entry into this country, to infer that they somehow live here without contributing anything is just racist propaganda and such flights of logic don't do anything towards solving the problem.

~Heff



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


But don't you know, illegal immigrants magically don't pay any tax at all, they don't pay gas tax at gas stations, they don't pay sales tax on anything they buy. Magically they pay absolutely no tax whatsoever.

It's like the right wing myth that poor people pay no tax. Magically those of us Americans who live below the poverty line somehow never pay a dime in taxes on anything.

So now, we can add to the myriad of right wing myths that repealing the 14th Amendment will only affect illegals.



posted on Jan, 8 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by Night Star
Having worked with many illegals in the past, I'll tell you what they told me. They come here and have a baby, lie and say they are a one income household even though their boyfriends live with them and together they make well above the poverty limit. They collect welfare and have cheap housing, medical etc. Whenever I tried telling them that there are people who really need welfare and that what they are doing is stealing, they say well America is stupid. Sigh...Then they each had 3 kids and wanted more. Who pays for this?

They took a law that was supposed to be for x slaves and manipulated it for self serving purposes. Illegals who have been here for many years have had more than enough time to go through proper channels to become legal and chose not to. How do you think that makes someone feel who has come here with respect and done everything the right and legal way? Illegals and their children also take jobs away from citizens and not just the jobs that Americans won't do. They are not tested for diseases, have no background checks etc.

It is long over due that something be done about this.


In texas as an example, The hispanic population lead the welafare lines. I know many many hispanic families in houston and i get so irate each month when the welfare pays their rent, utilities, hand them food stamps and medicade, all the while the man is working for usually cash and they live great. My niece a caucasion tried to get food stamps and medicade, she was turned down so many times she quit trying to get it. She has a 2 year old and a 6 year old. The 6 year old has a hip and leg problem to which she cannot run her hips bow out, her legs bow in and her feet bow out, a surgery would fix this. She cannot get any help. If she was hispanic you bet she would get the help seh asked for plus some....
I believe hispanics are a infestation to america and our economy.
A census was done on the youth of america commign into working age, Im talking caucasion here ok. They are unable to get theri first jobs, ( that which brigns the work ethics into their lives) because the illegals have taken all the lower waged work, example, fast food, car wash, hotels. then move past the youth, most hospitals knwo hire hispanics for housekeeping, why? because they take a lower wage, and what is worse try to talk to a housekeepr in english wont happen. I sya get rid of the il;legals regardless of where they came from, open up the job industry to the legal citizens. Green card is legal they are included of course. I am in no means anti hispanic, I am pro american, and stand in line and become legal. Im tired of beign legal and beign pushed to the back of the line.




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