Why Did God Create Satan?

reply to post by ownbestenemy


This is a great question.

As for Adam and Eve Satan was never in the Garden, that is a later interpretation and Genesis never claims that the snake is Satan.

The Hebrew word translated as Satan actually means adversary and wasn't always used for the supernatural sort and there is much debate on who Satan is and whether its the same as Lucifer or the Devil.

With that out of the way I agree fully with the question and the problem it poses for believers in an all knowing all powerful being. I think it goes back to what Epicurus said about evil. If God is good where does evil come into the picture?

Another interesting thing is that Satan is often blamed by Christians for doing terrible things but nothing that Satan did or is blamed for doing is ever as bad as what God plans to do with those who do not accept Jesus. If taken literally the Bible suggests that God is going to throw sinners into a Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever and ever without end and that's from the guy who claims to love you unconditionally.

reply to post by jheated5


Most of everything is hard to wrap your head around. The Universe in general is hard to wrap your head around, and we can see it with our own eyes. If we could not see it, and someone described to you the Universe in it's vastness and mysteriousness most people would not believe it. If we had no knowledge of modern day science and archaeology and someone described giant lizards, spiders, dragonflies, etc, than we would call BS. So really to me existence period is mind boggling. I understand what you mean, if one day there is true peace on Earth because every soul has developed enough to allow it, then what happens to Satan and hell...souls eventually will be cleansed and all that would be left is Satan? But then you think about the many other planets out there with life on it, and in some cases intelligent life just like us. They too would have a spirit, and depending on where they were at in evolution they would more than likely still be commiting crimes on their planet just as we do today. So even if this Earth was totally cleansed, their would still be many other planets who would still be fighting against good and evil. Any existence of an advanced civilization such as ours on another planet will have the same type of problems we have today or have had, so we have to assume there would still be negative energy on their planet as well as positive. Considering they too go to the same place as we do after death.

I mean this is all speculation, but I have experienced things and researched many things to lead me to one dominant conclusion in my eyes, that our conscious exist after we die. That in itself when really thought about is amazing, and modern day science cannot explain it. So if the afterlife exists than who knows what else is possible.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I don't believe God deliberately sends them there. It is you, it is me, it is we who truly decide whether we will advance our souls and allow the love of creation adn existence to enter it and allow us to understand more and comprehend more than what we thought previously. I've researched many NDE's and every time they speak of "God" and hell the entity always claims his love for the souls and it is not him who puts them there, as he wishes for every soul to come back to him and be with him, he cannot stop us from making the choices we do.

reply to post by FPB214

It is you, it is me, it is we who truly decide

Here's a similar hypothetical scenario to the whole God-Hell thing:

If a machine-gun wielding maniac puts a gun to your head and tells you to do as he says or he will pull the trigger who's decision is it when he actually does shoot you?

It's a none-choice, an OBEY OR BURN mandate, unless of course God isn't the one who created and owns Hell an decides what sort of person will end up there.

It has also been compared to a protection scheme, Jesus claims he will save you but he's only saving you from a danger that God has put you in (Hell) and thus he is just part of the scheme...

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

This is a great question.

As for Adam and Eve Satan was never in the Garden, that is a later interpretation and Genesis never claims that the snake is Satan.

The Hebrew word translated as Satan actually means adversary and wasn't always used for the supernatural sort and there is much debate on who Satan is and whether its the same as Lucifer or the Devil.

With that out of the way I agree fully with the question and the problem it poses for believers in an all knowing all powerful being. I think it goes back to what Epicurus said about evil. If God is good where does evil come into the picture?

Another interesting thing is that Satan is often blamed by Christians for doing terrible things but nothing that Satan did or is blamed for doing is ever as bad as what God plans to do with those who do not accept Jesus. If taken literally the Bible suggests that God is going to throw sinners into a Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever and ever without end and that's from the guy who claims to love you unconditionally.

I was about to comment on this. There are two "satans" if you will. One is the adversary or trickster Satan as seen in Job, and the other is Lucifer. There's a difference in the title and language used in the translations. But, to answer the OP if he is talking about Lucifer, and not the trickster folk angel-

Then I would say this. God made the angels and Lucifer being a bright and Shining member thought he would like the thrown too- and thus he got himself kicked out of heaven rather handedly, as well as the other angels who decided to follow him in his futile rebellion.

My two cents has already been posted... See below if you chose to do so

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Comment freely i'd like input, it seems my poor little thread has been practically ignored

God creates lots of things, only those that are sustainable remain.

Ok, but even if the guy shot you, it's you who decided where you will end up from the choices you made on Earth, and how positively you affected the world and your fellow human being. You keep sticking to God created hell and he's the one who sends you there, when i've said this whole time it isn't "God" who wishes you go there, it's the decisions you make here that count in the afterlife when you take your last breath. Not every human is perfect, but when you know you made a mistake, you check not to do it twice. I believe "God" came from the Universe, I believe somehow something just awakened and desired expression, and the universe exploded with diversity.

I believe we are one big spirit, we are apart of existence and creation itself, we are one with it. Saying that, I believe Satan was banished to a lower dimensional realm and there he created his own existence using his conscious. Like i've said in my last post, i've researched plausible NDE's and in many of them they speak of how this "God" does not want any souls to join Satan, but when your negative energy outweighs the positive energy within your spirit, than he has no control.

People usually always describe a tunnel that goes upwards to the "light" in some NDE's, which is why I have a belief that Satan is in fact closer to the Earth realm than "God" is. In order to go through it in the afterlife, or the tunnel some describe, your positive energy must carry you through otherwise you get stuck in with the negative energy. This is out there, and I just thought of that. Like i've said though, in reality this is all speculation and just what I feel makes most sense if this is in fact true.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


A thought just occurred: "It" was an accident. Out of "love", God "created" Satan. And that's all I had to add for now.

reply to post by FPB214

You keep sticking to God created hell and he's the one who sends you there, when i've said this whole time it isn't "God" who wishes you go there, it's the decisions you make here that count in the afterlife when you take your last breath

The Bible says that God created Hell and that he decides who goes there. I'm only sticking to what is scripturally defensible. In Matthew 10 for instance Jesus tells the disciples not to fear those that can harm them bodily but to instead fear God because God can throw them body and soul into Hell. This is reiterated in Luke 12:4-5 as well. Also check out Revelation 21:6-8

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Sure sounds like God is the one putting people into Hell doesn't it? And he doesn't seem at all remorseful in anyway here despite the fact he plans on sending anyone who lies, worships idols or does not believe in God. Apparently even the cowardly. The Greek word for cowardly here is deilois which Strong's Concordance translates as fearful either way it hardly seems an offense worthy of eternal damnation.

I believe we are one big spirit, we are apart of existence and creation itself, we are one with it. Saying that, I believe Satan was banished to a lower dimensional realm and there he created his own existence using his conscious.

Fair enough but you must admit that this is your own interpretation. What you have here are new age beliefs blended with Christianity. My question would merely be where do these beliefs stem from and why do you hold them? Why believe in Hell at all if you are going to disregard scripture's description of it and instead grasp at Near Death Experiences which take place when a cocktail of chemicals escapes into a dying persons brain.

People usually always describe a tunnel that goes upwards to the "light" in some NDE's

They usually always? I'm going to assume you mean this is a common element of NDEs. So what? Flying is a common element of dreams, as is the feeling, and dreaming, of falling usually felt right before falling asleep.

While I certainly don't dismiss the idea of an afterlife outright I think it highly unlikely given how much we know about life and death in regards to human beings. I find the idea that Hell exists to be absurd unless the God in control of the Universe is evil or is not All Powerful and is therefore not the God of the Universe.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
As for Adam and Eve Satan was never in the Garden, that is a later interpretation and Genesis never claims that the snake is Satan.

The Hebrew word translated as Satan actually means adversary and wasn't always used for the supernatural sort and there is much debate on who Satan is and whether its the same as Lucifer or the Devil.

This above, leads my mind unto a whole other subject. At what authority are we to believe that the Bible is the Word of God? Is it not just hearsay? Again, a lot of this influenced in my recent readings.

With that out of the way I agree fully with the question and the problem it poses for believers in an all knowing all powerful being. I think it goes back to what Epicurus said about evil. If God is good where does evil come into the picture?

Another interesting thing is that Satan is often blamed by Christians for doing terrible things but nothing that Satan did or is blamed for doing is ever as bad as what God plans to do with those who do not accept Jesus. If taken literally the Bible suggests that God is going to throw sinners into a Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever and ever without end and that's from the guy who claims to love you unconditionally.

Interesting little closed loop logic going on.

Originally posted by Woodhouse
I was about to comment on this. There are two "satans" if you will. One is the adversary or trickster Satan as seen in Job, and the other is Lucifer. There's a difference in the title and language used in the translations. But, to answer the OP if he is talking about Lucifer, and not the trickster folk angel-

Then I would say this. God made the angels and Lucifer being a bright and Shining member thought he would like the thrown too- and thus he got himself kicked out of heaven rather handedly, as well as the other angels who decided to follow him in his futile rebellion.

If God made the angels, and God is the center of all creation with infinite knowledge and infallibility, then why create a being that is supposed to be a will of God's (as angels were not created in the same manner of Man) knowing that angel would would fall?

This would suppose that God is neither all knowledgeable nor infallible; which to both I disagree and has led me away from the teachings of God via the Bible.

Before discussing "why God created the devil" there ought to be some first principle agreed upon by those participating in the discussion. By definition God is perfect, infinite in every respect of which we can conceive.

God is infinitely good, all-loving. If God were not, then God would not be God, for we could conceive a being greater (more loving, more good). Love under duress would not be perfect. That is to say, if I force or manipulate someone to love me, then my love is imperfect as is that of the person who loves me back.

So for God to be Himself, to love perfectly, He could not force someone to love Him. This means that free will must exist if God is perfect. In perfect love, God must allow us to use our will to love Him freely, otherwise the love could never be perfect. It also means that we now may use our free will to reject God.

The devil got where he is by rejecting God. His was the first sin, or misuse of free will, against God. God created the angels and then let them choose whether to accept or reject him. One might ask, why would an angel reject God? The original sin of the devil was pride. Pride is a lack of humility. The devil is a very powerful being, had been the highest of the angels it is said, and in his admiration of himself decided he did not want to be subject to God.

Whence comes pride? Again, free will allows us to basically do and think anything we like, to the point we suppose ourselves to be as great or greater, or just to be worthy of greatness, beyond anyone or anything. This is the poison of success really, to be highly exalted, wealthy, gifted, beautiful -- it can lead to ruin through pride.

Of course, the question continues, why would God create an angel so beautiful and powerful that God knew the angel would become consumed with pride? We don't know how beautiful or powerful the devil was as an angel, just that he let his pride get out of hand and he rejected God. If God had "lessened the pride" of the devil, all God would really have been doing was taking away some of the devil's free will. God does not give everyone the same level of gifts, but He does give everyone a complete free will to do with those gifts what he will. God must provide each person a completely free will or God would no longer be perfect.

God did not create the devil, but the fact that God is consistent within His perfection, means that the devil could come to exist through the devil's own pride and his rejection of God.

Regarding people who go to hell: they choose it. We cannot know who is in hell, or exactly what it takes to wind up in hell, but if God exists, then free will must exist. With free will comes the almost undeniable probability of hell.

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The Bible says that God created Hell and that he decides who goes there. I'm only sticking to what is scripturally defensible. In Matthew 10 for instance Jesus tells the disciples not to fear those that can harm them bodily but to instead fear God because God can throw them body and soul into Hell. This is reiterated in Luke 12:4-5 as well. Also check out Revelation 21:6-8

Well, I do not follow the bible or any religious text. If I follow any "belief system" it would be spirituality. Which is all about knowing who you truly are, and making observations and theories based on everything you've ever thought of and researched. It's trying to find the meaning of my existence. So I do not believe everything the Bible has to say. I believe in Karma, like i've said. I believe it is a law in the afterlife.

Fair enough but you must admit that this is your own interpretation. What you have here are new age beliefs blended with Christianity. My question would merely be where do these beliefs stem from and why do you hold them? Why believe in Hell at all if you are going to disregard scripture's description of it and instead grasp at Near Death Experiences which take place when a cocktail of chemicals escapes into a dying persons brain.

You are right, this is personally my own beliefs. I have absolutely no religion in me at all, so to me they are not "blended with christianity." I have never been bapitized and rarely go to church, I just have my own beliefs. To me spirituality is not "new age" whatsoever.

These belief's stem from experiences, through finding my inner self after somewhat losing myself for a little bit. Disconnecting myself from my old friends and having more time alone to think, to research, to expand my mind and open it more than I ever thought. Although, I am always skeptical and aware that everything I may believe could really be false and there could be nothing after death at all, and if that's true than I would admit "hey, I was wrong." Really nobody knows.

Yet, through experiences, very prominent experiences, in my mind, body, and soul I now feel as if I am getting close to the true answers. Honestly if I could only put you in my shoes and literally let you experience the 3-5 things that have been totally unexplainable, that have happened to me in this life than you would know. Like most say, you have to experience it for yourself.

You have no idea how NDE's happen. Many doctors and scientist's agree it is very unexplainable. I believe it can be answered with a deeper step into science, a mixing of science and psuedoscience if you will. I really could understand how it could be some triggering after death in the brain, but why do some people explain the same places? Why can two people, who have never met and who have both had NDE's, explain a certain place they saw? What about Edgar Cayce? How can you explain all of the information he brought back while in a "trance" like state including medicinal cures that were previously unknown at the time, as he claims to have obtained it from the "hall of records"? How is it possible for him to give over 1400 readings and give an answer to someone on how to cure a certain disease/sickness that was previously unknown at the time? It doesn't make sense, but it is pure fact. He predicted the day he would die four day before it happened, how is that explainable after all of his other accurate predictions?

While I certainly don't dismiss the idea of an afterlife outright I think it highly unlikely given how much we know about life and death in regards to human beings. I find the idea that Hell exists to be absurd unless the God in control of the Universe is evil or is not All Powerful and is therefore not the God of the Universe.

I think it is highly likely given how much information scientist's have obtained about it. In the end im not worried about arguements about "God" and Jesus Christ, my arguement is about the existence of a spirit realm after this body dies, which I believe has already been proved. Why have some humans been dead for days, and then all of a sudden wake up on an autopsy table saying "God" told them it was time for them to come back? Im not trying to say it is 100% fact, but something beyond comprehnsion is in existence . When you think about the existence of this Universe, the existence of you, me, us, the past, this technology, and many strange theories physicist's put forth, if proven true this whole existence is mysterious and magical. To think all of this came from something so much smaller than the eye can see?

Not syaing anything I say is 100% true, like we've covered, these are my beliefs that I have obtained from reading, researching, and literally experiencing myself. Not saying what you believe is false either but like I said, although my beliefs are strong in the end im still skeptical about everything and open to many ideas.

Why did God create Satan? A being that would eventually refute God and turn to evil?

God gave all of His creation free will. We have a choice...that choice comes with consequences.

What is more rewarding? A lover that loves you freely or one that does what ever you want when you want it?

What is more rewarding...the "love" that comes from a hooker, or the love that is given freely from a loving partner?

Love freely given is so much more rewarding than love orchestrated....that is why God gave us the option to freely love Him or refuse Him..our choice.

A dad tells his son to be careful and drive safe when he turns 16 and gets his license... knowing full well that he will go out and see just how fast the car can go. Why? To give that son the option of proving or disproving his trust...to allow us to succeed and fail...to grow.

Most of us remember when we left home...how so much smarter than our parents we were...we were gonna set the world on fire. And they let us because they loved us. Only later, because they allowed us, did we find out we were not so smart...and we were even humbled by our experience... but we grew...and we grew in love for them.

That is why God loves us, and because He loves us, He allows us to choose our route in life...make our own choices...hopefully we learn and grow.

Some leave home and later return, some leave and never return... the Bible is full of people that fell away from God and returned. It is equally full of people and beings( Satan) that fell away and never returned.

Because we are not perfect, God gave us His Son...His blood was a sacrifice, an atonement, a ransom, a payment for our sins...our short comings.

Would you give your kidney so someone you loved could live? Would you give a lung to a complete stranger so that they might live? Would you give your child so that a stranger might live a fulfilling life?

God did...He loves us that much. Satan had a choice at one time and he refused God... likewise we have a choice.

Do you choose love, forgiveness, peace, generosity, mercy, ... or will you live your life selfishly in a self centered world... with no thought to your family, friends, neighbors... or a complete stranger?

Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is a allegory. The Torah can be read in such a way that it allows 72 different opinions via the extension of freewill. There is the written Torah and the unwritten Torah called Oral Torah. Satan is a allegory for the word ego. Our ego has access not only to our conscious mind but our subconscious mind as well.

The reason why we have this Satan/Ego is it gives us the ability to sense danger or something that is wrong. If a bear jumps through the window it will tell you to get out of dodge via a new door you're about to make! But with some people it becomes like a smoke detector going off 24 hours a day, perceiving almost everything as dangerous. These people start by becoming arrogant sounding off on everything. They are constantly making noise about something. They start to have anxiety and panic attacks because there ego is being like a smoke detector going off the majority of the day. And when the ego is set to be so sensitive and unchecked it opens a floodgate of potential problem making actions you will set into motion. Via the self proclaimed paranoia your ego is falsely detecting.

You can think of ego as a test module for Mankind! Something that can help but if you relay on it more than you're supposed to you will start to experience the symptoms above. And everyone will start treating you different and set into motion long term actions of negativity.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Do you choose love, forgiveness, peace, generosity, mercy, ... or will you live your life selfishly in a self centered world... with no thought to your family, friends, neighbors... or a complete stranger?

That is a ridiculous question. You have set the terms of the answer by labeling love, forgiveness, peace, generosity and mercy on the side of God or believing in your God.

My belief in God may give me guidance on my Moral Good that I attempt to achieve everyday, but it in no way is requisite for me to believe in God to achieve those attributes.

I don't understand why religion makes claim that those attributes can only be achieved by following their God(s)....

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
This pondering upon this subject came to me after reading Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason. Obviously the book is a refutation upon Christianity and comes from a Deist point of view; as Thomas Paine self proclaimed.

He questioned why God, if we are to believe Him to be loving of His creation would create a being that would knowingly turn against Him. Why would He allow Satan to seduce Eve in the Garden of Eden? Why would He create a being that would have infinitely increasing powers that would allow him to: escape Hell and have the same powers of omnipotences upon the very people God has professed His love towards?

He should have read the book of Job. Then he'd have understood, maybe.

That's like asking a parent who's child became a serial killer.
"Why did you create a serial killer?"

A serial killer becomes serial killer by planning to kill and then acting on that plan, they are a free moral agent that choose to break the rules of civilization.
An Angel was created by God, at some point this particular Angel formulated a plan and executed it, when he did that he became Satan, as he was the very first intelligent creature in the universe to challenge God's sovereignty.
Others would follow.
So whereas God gave this Angel his life force at his creation and he was good, with his act of evil he transformed himself into Satan the Devil.

reply to post by queenannie38


He did. He also commented on the story of Job. He strongly believed that the Book of Job does not belong to the Bible and refers to Hebrew commentators at the time for this assertion.

He believed that the character represented in Job given the name Satan did not fit any Hebrew idea.