God was behind Big Bang, pope says

Originally posted by Ben81

we dont need to know the how .. what magic or tech was used to created the universe

Where did that magic come from? Or that technology? Or whatever you might call that resulted in the observable universe.

There is no beginning and no end. Everything just is. It just is. If a piece of technology, a star, a human, or a planet could exist then it likely always did in some form.** Everything is possible, it just a matter of discovery.The question is, is it possible for it to exist within our "natural laws" or physics of the universe. At the very least, all the human beings alive on this planet today will not be able define what is possible. At least, they can define what they know, which is what they have experienced on the planet earth. Perhaps if you said everything is possible, you might be on the right track. We will never really know, perhaps our descendants will be lucky enough to learn the right answer, of course they might be wrong too.

If it can exist, it exists. You are right, it was no chance that we are here today. It was always meant to be.


It is hard for me to believe though that it was somehow guided by a "creator". I must say where did the creator come from? That is just a really unsatisfying conclusion for me.

**Edit: After reading that, after reading the preview of course, I felt it was pretty confusing.

What I meant was,

Any idea or invention was possible at any time because its really just a matter of the right arrangement of matter.

Also this idea is coming from this other Idea I got, probably inspired from something.

What if what we think exists. I can think of a car, and its right outside right? Well what if I think of some really cool plane, and then it happens to exist a hundred years from now?

But seriously, if Aristotle and those fools could figure out there were atoms just with their thought, perhaps other ridiculous ideas humans have might become a reality.

((I am having trouble articulating my thought, but I am going to leave my attempt posted anyways.))

where does exactly does Pope come up with this information? You know, I think the Pope might be an ATS member cause one of us could've come up with this stuff.

Originally posted by CX
So is this science and religion "getting along" as one member has suggested above....or is it the Pope finally admitting that the Big Bang was actualy responsible for the birth of the universe....but trying to save face by saying God still had some part to play in it?

I bet the Pope secretly has a copy of Scienific American nestling somewhere between the pages of his bible.

CX.

This is where I point out that the Big Bang theory was first put forward by a priest - and the term Big Bang was coined to ridicule him, by believers in the Steady State universe...
A Day without a yesterday
Wikipedia on Georges Lemaitre
Vicky

It wasnt that long ago that scientists were doubting their big bang theory because of newer discoveries outside of the big bang radius that disproved the current theory. Can't seem to find the link. Forget the pope anyway.

Come now, my atheist brothers and sisters. I understand your confusions.

The very first question on reality of existance would be 'If our Creator created us, then who created the Creator?'

To ask such questions would be to only base upon our 5 senses to derive the answer. We saw how we were 'created', through the complex biological reproductive systems and presume all beings that are 'created' can only be formed thus.

But is that the correct assumption? That's only based on our intellect on the 5 senses, one of which is what we saw. But science goes beyond our 5 senses, to experiment, to discover, and in discoveries, we realized that there are more ways that forms and lifeforms can be created other than the biological processes.

We know how elements can combine to become compounds, and as the atoms combine or let loose, other compounds are formed. This is no magic. This is only science as we know it, and there is so much more to learn about science. It would only be egoistical to claim we know it all today.

So how was the Supreme Being created? The answer would lay in complex elements and compounds that we have yet to know or understand, that exists as we daily make new discoveries in science.

Furthermore, we are only presuming the creation of a being based on our own mortal time frame. The Universe is billions of years by the terms of earth's time defination. Who is to say or dare claim 'other' beings would be similarly created within 9 earth months throughout our entire Universe?

Man, humble thyself and look at just the curves on your body. With your comprehension of maths, deduce the amount of calculations necessary to create those curves alone and know that it is not by chance you were made, but by billions of earth years of scientific trial and error.

Cheers!

reply to post by Ben81

The universe is not the result of chance
The universe is not the result of chance
The universe is not the result of chance
The universe is not the result of chance

How do you know?

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Come now, my atheist brothers and sisters. I understand your confusions.

The very first question on reality of existance would be 'If our Creator created us, then who created the Creator?'

Just a point in regards to your opening comment...and speaking only for myself, just because somone doesnt believe in the pope or roman catholic church or their intepretation of creation, doesnt mean they are an atheist.

Man, humble thyself and look at just the curves on your body. With your comprehension of maths, deduce the amount of calculations necessary to create those curves alone and know that it is not by chance you were made, but by billions of earth years of scientific trial and error.

Cheers!

and lots and lots of skittles!



R

reply to post by Ben81




I've been saying that for years. Makes perfect sense. God creates the primordial universe and then He installs what we call "evolution" to carry on from there. But this is too easy and eliminates the powerful, adversarial need that some religion people have to "be fighting the influence of Satan in the world by being against science". It's pretty pathetic when anyone has to have feelings of persecution in order to strengthen their excuses for being in the first place. Religion, though, is really good at this. They cannot just be nice. They always have to have opponents. Phooey I say to religion. Let's relate to God directly and leave religion behind shall we?

reply to post by alonzo730


I don't understand how people take offence when people say they are descended from apes. As if being made from a pile of dirt is any better (or a rib depending on your sex)

Science is an integral part of existence and there is no way we can divorce science from faith if we truly what to understand anything. There is a real God that created us all and He has once visited me in reality. Jesus is the backup plan for saving humanity from hell. God could have used any process; big, small or medium-bang to create our universe but to believe that the universe created itself from the laws of gravity defiles all common and uncommon sense because even the laws of physics states that a body would continue in its state of rest or if moving, will continue to move with a uniform velocity on a straight line unless it is acted upon by an external force. so the question is what external force triggered the big-bang? it must have been an extraordinary intelligence that is not constrained by the gravitational force of our universe...God
Don't mistake God with Religion. God did not create religion - Man did. And every religion has some elements of flaws and imperfection attributable to the selfishness innate in every "fallen" man.

A comprehensive insight into the topic could also be found in the Blank Cheque

reply to post by Astyanax


simple deduction

reply to post by Astyanax


When we look at the world it is obvious that theres an unfathomable order and complexity to it; but as created beings with a finite perspective the order will always pose some paradox the farther and deeper we try to probe.

The Jews embraced paradox as intellectually exciting, whereas the greek western mind finds it anathema. G-d is a paradox. His creation and its working can only be somewhat known (unless we develop a way to understand matters that currently appear paradoxical). This is completely fine for many people.

The only reason why you believe as you do because you work from the assumption that all things are 'chaotic' and 'accidental' and 'chance'. Chance is a greek word and greek concept. The Jewish theology conversely is based on a firm belief that everything was intelligently designed; from the physical world to the spiritual, abstract (intellectual) world, to our very language and the science of linguistics. Everything demonstrates an order and intelligent design that anyone with an imagination can infer as some unfathomable force wanting us to know something about him through his works.

Originally posted by dontreally
Everything demonstrates an order and intelligent design that anyone with an imagination can infer as some unfathomable force wanting us to know something about him through his works.

No it doesn't. In fact, we see the opposite. For instance, various habitats on earth are extremely unfriendly towards humans, especially since something like 70% of the earth is covered in salt water which we can't drink.

LOL This topic is very interesting to me. Religion and science merging together. One side of the coin is about speculation and superstition and the other side of the same coin a discipline bassed on facts, studies and evidance. Hmmmm?? Ok this looks like the church is looking to gain some power here. They lost alot of it in the last half century. And now that science is gaining momentum, the church descides to jump on the wagon...suprise suprise. This comming from an institution that burned people at the steak for saying the earth was round. The are aslo saying the earth is what 5000 years old, right?? Gimme a break. This also comming from a "man" that defended pedophilia by saying and I quote "that paedophilia wasn’t considered an absolute evil”. I'm sorry but Pope Palpetine is not really an authority on science in my opignion.

Originally posted by PieKeeper

Originally posted by dontreally
Everything demonstrates an order and intelligent design that anyone with an imagination can infer as some unfathomable force wanting us to know something about him through his works.

No it doesn't. In fact, we see the opposite. For instance, various habitats on earth are extremely unfriendly towards humans, especially since something like 70% of the earth is covered in salt water which we can't drink.

There is always a balance ...
we see more salt water covering earth yes .. but there is at least 70% of dirt
the rest of the planet is water

what about Mars now

reply to post by Condemned0625


Exactly the people didn't know; but isn't the bible supposed to be the word of God? And if it really is the word of God shouldn't the bible state that the world is round and the universe is ever expanding with new worlds being born every moment and so on. Instead of having people prosecuted for heresy for saying the Earth revolves arround the sun?

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by Condemned0625

 

Exactly the people didn't know; but isn't the bible supposed to be the word of God? And if it really is the word of God shouldn't the bible state that the world is round and the universe is ever expanding with new worlds being born every moment and so on. Instead of having people prosecuted for heresy for saying the Earth revolves arround the sun?

The bible contain some word of God ...in a wisdom way that no human would even think off
but the rest of it .. by time and generation .. the story changed in a theatrical metaphores

We were made in the image of God .. we have all his qualities .. lets start using them in the correct way

shall we

reply to post by Ben81


I have read the bible and I think it's the greatest story ever told. The message is awesome. But if we were created in his image than God is an evil evil entity. More wars have been started due to that book than anything else. If people would think for them selves instead of having a book or preists tell them how to live their lives, we as humans would be 100's of years further in our evolution than we are now. Don't get me wrong, you seem like the good kind of christien, the kind that can make up his own mind and I tip my hat to you for that, but the majority are still so closed minded. But if you think you need god in your heart to be a good person think of this. How many people had god in their heart when they percicuted "witches", astonomers, goelogists etc.

reply to post by XLR8R


didnt read much of it .. but it has great passage ..like this one

The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters.
He restores my soul; He guides me in the paths of righteousness For His name's sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me

did you see the movie the book of Eli
it make a nice reference to the bible

Dear Lord, thank you for giving me the conviction and the strength to complete the task you entrusted to me. Thank you for guiding me straight and true through the many obstacles in my path and for keeping me resolute when all around seemed lost. Thank you for your protection and the many signs along the way. Thank you for any good I may have done, I am so sorry about the bad. Thank you for the friend I've made and please watch over her as you did for me. Thank you for finally allowing me to rest. I'm so very tired but I go now to my rest and peace knowing that I have done right with my time on this Earth. I fought the good fight, I finished the race, I kept the faith."

i dont neer any book to tell me there is a Creator somewhere .. do i need the absolute proof ? no

Originally posted by saabacura
where does exactly does Pope come up with this information? You know, I think the Pope might be an ATS member cause one of us could've come up with this stuff.

in the past they though the planet was flat .. they discovered it was round

in the past they though the universe was made up with a natural explosion .. they discovered that coincidence like these dont show up out of nowhere ..

and this is where we are more questions then before lol