reply to post by Ben81
I always thought that the "Big Bang" was a theory.
God was behind Big Bang, pope says, page 3
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reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 04:42 PM by Ben81
Originally posted by cluckerspud
reply to post by Ben81
I always thought that the "Big Bang" was a theory.
indeed
big bang is theorical when we ask ourself
who created the universe that have so many galaxies and trillions of planets
a mighty big explosion .. its plausible
do we have any other theories on how the univers started ??
reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 05:21 PM by Rosha
The pope telling christians around the world what to think isnt a new idea.
As for a creative mind at work in the universe, well again, its not a new thought or even a solely religous theory that the universe was not a chance occurance...so why this pronouncement being made by this paticular human being would carry as much or any more weight than a scholar with the degrees *to* know, like Einstein saying the same thing about " God not throwing the dice' and even Hawkins giving leway to evidence of a 'creative force' at work decades ago, is beyond me.
That this particular man could presume to know or allued to *knowing* the mind of God and how that mind works, is sheer arrogance - imo. Ive never met a scientist who would claim or presume such a thing...results of their own research if not personal humility would keep them from doing so.
Also...and as science doesnt claim omnicience, even today 33 top scientists are openly questioning the validity of big bang theory..see here:www.cosmologystatement.org... which they are free to do only as they keep an open mind to the possibilities....and arent presuming to be Gods voice.
An Open Letter to the Scientific Community
Cosmology Statement.org (Published in New Scientist, May 22-28 issue, 2004, p. 20)
The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed-- inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory.
In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, RAISE SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THE UNDERLYING THEORY.
So the pope is in fact "laying claim" in Gods name, to this theory is an error - he is taking it as 'fact' when its only..and only ever was.... an unprooven THEORY!
See the " Big Bang religion" here: home.pacbell.net...
I wont take on board anything that comes with a 'directive' that tries to make me think a certain way let alone those that use passive agressive peer pressure to compel ppl to think a certain way ' in order to be included' - no matter where it comes from. No group, or person, has the right to usurp peoples right *and* responsibility to choose their views for themselves.
R
As for a creative mind at work in the universe, well again, its not a new thought or even a solely religous theory that the universe was not a chance occurance...so why this pronouncement being made by this paticular human being would carry as much or any more weight than a scholar with the degrees *to* know, like Einstein saying the same thing about " God not throwing the dice' and even Hawkins giving leway to evidence of a 'creative force' at work decades ago, is beyond me.
That this particular man could presume to know or allued to *knowing* the mind of God and how that mind works, is sheer arrogance - imo. Ive never met a scientist who would claim or presume such a thing...results of their own research if not personal humility would keep them from doing so.
Also...and as science doesnt claim omnicience, even today 33 top scientists are openly questioning the validity of big bang theory..see here:www.cosmologystatement.org... which they are free to do only as they keep an open mind to the possibilities....and arent presuming to be Gods voice.
An Open Letter to the Scientific Community
Cosmology Statement.org (Published in New Scientist, May 22-28 issue, 2004, p. 20)
The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed-- inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory.
In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, RAISE SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THE UNDERLYING THEORY.
So the pope is in fact "laying claim" in Gods name, to this theory is an error - he is taking it as 'fact' when its only..and only ever was.... an unprooven THEORY!
See the " Big Bang religion" here: home.pacbell.net...
I wont take on board anything that comes with a 'directive' that tries to make me think a certain way let alone those that use passive agressive peer pressure to compel ppl to think a certain way ' in order to be included' - no matter where it comes from. No group, or person, has the right to usurp peoples right *and* responsibility to choose their views for themselves.
R
edit on 6-1-2011 by Rosha because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 05:27 PM by Bkrmn
reply to post by byteshertz
Although I posted the smart-assed comment above your own, I personally do believe in a Creator even though I can't prove it. It's more of a "feeling" or "knowing" within me, then when I ask myself where did he/she/it come from, I just don't have an answer. Who or what created the Creator? It's also my belief that whom or whatever created us, would also populate other worlds with lifeforms, and that those lifeforms don't neccessarily look like any we know of here on Earth. Perhaps we're part of an experiment in evolution, with slight adjustments being made every couple of thousand years or so. Oh well... I'll probably learn more after my time here on Earth is done!
Although I posted the smart-assed comment above your own, I personally do believe in a Creator even though I can't prove it. It's more of a "feeling" or "knowing" within me, then when I ask myself where did he/she/it come from, I just don't have an answer. Who or what created the Creator? It's also my belief that whom or whatever created us, would also populate other worlds with lifeforms, and that those lifeforms don't neccessarily look like any we know of here on Earth. Perhaps we're part of an experiment in evolution, with slight adjustments being made every couple of thousand years or so. Oh well... I'll probably learn more after my time here on Earth is done!
reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 05:41 PM by Maslo
Originally posted by cluckerspud
reply to post by Ben81
I always thought that the "Big Bang" was a theory.
I think we should prove the "theory" before we decide who is behind it. Just saying.
The word "theory" does not mean that it is not proven. Germ theory of disease and theory of relativity are not any less true because they are called theories.
en.wikipedia.org...
Hypothesis is what an unproven explanation is called.
reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 05:56 PM by impaired
reply to post by Ben81
I'm not talking about aliens... Not this time.
I'm talking about a creative force that just creates and nothing else - no judgements, no playing favorites, no being ostentatious - it just is.
That's what "god" should be. The gods of the Abrahamic religions and the religions themselves are created and run in such a way that they take responsibility and accountability away from people: If you repent you are forgiven (are you kidding me?!), or by people saying "God did it" or "Satan did it". No accountability. Promises of heaven for not being a good person - but only by accepting said god as lord and savior.
But the pope has to try to monopolize the creative force by putting a label on it and claiming it as their (The Vatican's own) god.
This is BS and that's why I can't stand the Abrahamic religions. People will continue to be stagnant or go backwards unless we stop taking religion so seriously and taking responsibility FOR OURSELVES.
^^^^ That's pretty noble and humble, right? But not according to fundamentalists; - I'm still going to hell! Burn, baby! Burn!
I'm not talking about aliens... Not this time.
I'm talking about a creative force that just creates and nothing else - no judgements, no playing favorites, no being ostentatious - it just is.
That's what "god" should be. The gods of the Abrahamic religions and the religions themselves are created and run in such a way that they take responsibility and accountability away from people: If you repent you are forgiven (are you kidding me?!), or by people saying "God did it" or "Satan did it". No accountability. Promises of heaven for not being a good person - but only by accepting said god as lord and savior.
But the pope has to try to monopolize the creative force by putting a label on it and claiming it as their (The Vatican's own) god.
This is BS and that's why I can't stand the Abrahamic religions. People will continue to be stagnant or go backwards unless we stop taking religion so seriously and taking responsibility FOR OURSELVES.
^^^^ That's pretty noble and humble, right? But not according to fundamentalists; - I'm still going to hell! Burn, baby! Burn!
edit on 1/6/2011
by impaired because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 07:17 PM by Kailassa
Originally posted by Condemned0625
Originally posted by journey2010
reply to post by Condemned0625
You say, "How can a deity exist infinitely into the past..." I cannot prove this through science, hence faith. But I will challenge you with this... "How can everything we are/will be/have been" be created from nothing?" Again, no answer. And if there was "something", then where did it come from? Either way you look at it, there has always had to be something in order to create everything we know. Neither of us can prove what that "something" is - whether it is science or religion, a certain amount of faith must exist in the fact that there has always been "something".
That's simple. Abiogenesis. It has been demonstrated in laboratories. Scientists can create organic matter from non-organic matter. They're not creating something from nothing, but it still proves that we can assemble non-living material in such a way that it becomes the building blocks of a living thing. Maybe there always was something, but it still needs a beginning. Science does not claim to know the definite answer to that question, but it does explain how this universe began. Nobody knows if matter can always have existed, but the same applies to a god. Just because science does not yet know the answer does not mean religion has the right to assert it has the answer. These gods and goddesses require explanations, beginnings and most importantly, evidence. I have no faith. I either know the answer or I don't know the answer, which means I'm honest. Faith is the belief in something without evidence to support it. However, I do have hope for certain things, but hope is not asserting something without evidence; it is simply wishing for something to happen or come true.
Abiogenesis only refers to the beginnings of life.
Abiogenesis is not relevant to the formation of the universe. That study comes under cosmology.
reply posted on 6-1-2011 @ 07:23 PM by Kailassa
reply to post by Ben81
The Pope, by saying the big bang and evolution can be accepted by Catholics, just wants to attract more people to Catholicism by holding the door open for those repelled by the idiocy of fundamentalists who insist on the rejection of scientific explanations of origins.
It's not truth he's after; he's just using an apparent acceptance of a measure of truth to promote Catholicism.
The Pope, by saying the big bang and evolution can be accepted by Catholics, just wants to attract more people to Catholicism by holding the door open for those repelled by the idiocy of fundamentalists who insist on the rejection of scientific explanations of origins.
It's not truth he's after; he's just using an apparent acceptance of a measure of truth to promote Catholicism.
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