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America: Not A Christian Nation

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posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Dear Tradionaldrummer,
As I believed and feared, you're actually not really getting what I am trying to say. For some obscure reason you seem to think I wish to label the USA as a Christian Nation for any other reason than the one i'm stating and repeating, time after time may I add.

Iran is not a Muslim nation because it is an Islamist State. That is ludicrous. It is a Muslim Nation because it's people are by a vast majority, Muslim. The part about it being an Islamist State defines the State's religion, nothing else.

Nomenclature and the use of language to define things does, in fact, follow very distinct rules. You are oblivious to the one I am using to assist you in correctly defining the things you wanted to define in your OP. At no time did I ever say that the US is a Christian State, which is what your post was trying, and succeeding, in saying. There is, as far as I am aware, no Christian religious tie-in as you so frankly made evident in your OP.

I'm sorry you don't get my point however. It is futile to continue this discussion with you, you are only seeing an afront, when i'm providing assistance and guidance.

In closing I will comment on your statement: As previously stated, majority does not determine definition.

You Sir, really need to go back to your English textbooks, because it does.

Edit - The use of "majority" white nation is only because of political correctness. If you follow the actual rules, White Nation would be sufficient.

Regards,
T

edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: grammar

edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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The semantics here are cracking me up. Technically, it's not a "Christian nation" if there is even a single citizen who is not Christian. And it's not a "Christian state" either, of course. And even though some think it is either or both or so badly want it to be, the fact is, it's not. If this bothers you, get over it, I guess. This is never going to be a Christian or Dominionist state.

On a personal note, I'm getting mighty sick of gods and such being mentioned on live national TV by elected officials who every time they open their mouths and with their religious public rhetoric alienate and offend many. I understand they're either very sincere or going for the majority vote, but enough already. It doesn't belong in the political arena. Just leave that religion stuff to your private life and church and get on with the work of the secular government...of the people by the people and representing ALL the people.


edit on 1/11/2011 by ~Lucidity because: there was a typo or two



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by torqpoc

In closing I will comment on your statement: As previously stated, majority does not determine definition.

You Sir, really need to go back to your English textbooks, because it does.


So we are a Female nation. A White nation. Etc.

Sorry, but your logic does not hold. As someone else so aptly pointed out, a pile with 10 red M&Ms and 3 blue M&Ms does not make it a pile of red M&Ms. If you think an English textbook will tell you otherwise I challenge you to produce it.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Dear Traditionaldrummer,
Once more, why not? No.. as I stated as an example, masculine gender is the majority. So 99 females, 1 male, it would be masculine.

Any English textbook would state the above. You could start with the Oxford English Dictionary probably, or some form of the same. Or better still, why don't you get in touch with an English teacher and ask them to help you understand how the term Nation can be used to encompass a people living in a specific location, or race, gender etc..

As someone who has studied various languages, especially Latin, I guess i have the upper hand. If you wish to question it, why don't you do the research, it is after all your post.

I have nothing more to add, intelligent conversation is one thing, this is just inane.

Oxford definition of nation, noun: oxforddictionaries.com...

Regards,
T
edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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traditionaldrummer and torqpoc...call me crazy, but it seems to me, after a quick reading of all your posts, that you two may be in agreement? What am I missing here?



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by torqpoc
Dear Traditionaldrummer,
Once more, why not? No.. as I stated as an example, masculine gender is the majority. So 99 females, 1 male, it would be masculine.


Ummm. What?
1 male and 99 females would be masculine?

With all due respect, perhaps you shouldn't display arrogance about your mastery of language and intelligent conversation.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Dear Traditionaldrummer,

Arrogance is one thing, a willingness to help is another. I have stated my intentions quite clearly from the outset. If you wish to bring emotion into it, I can assure you I do have emotional feelings about this repetition, but it is not arrogance in the least.

I cannot be held responsible or thought of as arrogant, when stating the simple rules and use of a language. I also can't be accused of arrogance when simply advising you to in the very least contemplate trying to ascertain where your use of terminology may be incorrect, which is all I have stated from the outset.

Arrogance is something entirely different. Now for the sake of my own peace of mind, I will bid you farewell and wish you the very best in your endeavours to educate the masses that the US is not a Christian State.

Regards,
T

edit on 11-1-2011 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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Very interesting thread! traditionaldrummer, some really good posts in this thread.


I think people like to say it's a "Christian Nation" because that makes the Christians feel like they are in the right... and perhaps should have more political clout. Whatever. But whenever I have asked, "What does the term 'Christian Nation' mean"? All I get are circles of nonsense.

This is the first time I've seen people discussing that "Christian Nation" means the majority of people are Christian. And to that, I respond, "So what"? That's no reason to label the whole nation as one thing. Christian majority is the term they're looking for.

But as you said, if this is a Christian nation, then it's also a Female nation, a white nation and a pro-gay marriage nation.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by torqpoc
Dear Traditionaldrummer,

Arrogance is one thing, a willingness to help is another. I have stated my intentions quite clearly from the outset. If you wish to bring emotion into it, I can assure you I do have emotional feelings about this repetition, but it is not arrogance in the least.


That's odd, because you displayed a bit of it, though you may not be aware that you did.

Did you re-read the quoted post that you wrote? To summarize: 1% male makes things masculine? I am sorry to inform you that this makes little sense.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This is the first time I've seen people discussing that "Christian Nation" means the majority of people are Christian. And to that, I respond, "So what"? That's no reason to label the whole nation as one thing. Christian majority is the term they're looking for.


Correct, and this seems to be the last refuge of an argument that can be mustered in favor of the "christian nation" myth, particularly since there exists massive evidence to the contrary. Though "christian majority " is the correct term for this argument, it's not good enough. They want to justify the use of the term "christian nation" on this logic, which intentionally misconstrues the argument they base their conclusions on.



posted on Jan, 11 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by torqpoc
 



Okay let me preface by saying this, i know exactly what you mean and are trying to prove. However, this does not mean you can say i don't understand repeated times or insinuate at the same time that i somehow agree subconsciously with you. You are correct in saying that i have an emotional connection to politicians saying this, because it should warrant an emotional response when candidates make emotional pleas.


a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory:


Your definition leads me to believe the exact opposite of what you are trying to prove. If anything putting a label on the word nation, from your definition, would be a disservice to the very word if it is not common.


belonging to or participated in by a community as a whole; public; "for the common good"; "common lands are set aside for use by all members of a community"


American Nation is a correct use of labeling a nation, because we are "all" American. (I put all in quotes because i know someone is going to bring up illegal immigrants)
edit on 11-1-2011 by Stuffed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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the principals and ideals which founded this Nation (United States) are indeed of Protestant Christian origin. Reflected by the very drafting of the Constitution itself (it is where the ideals of the Constitution came from, the Bible) and this is also worded in many of the states Constitutions.

topic closed

edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
the principals and ideals which founded this Nation (United States) are indeed of Protestant Christian origin. Reflected by the very drafting of the Constitution itself


Commandment One: You shall worship no other god but me

Amendment One: You can worship whatever god you like
--------

I'd say your argument has a bit of a problem



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 

my argument only states that the "ideals" of the Nation are rooted in Christianity...

let me put this in other words for you, the words of the current president of the United States.


"Where we once were, we are no longer just a Christian Nation"
can you read between those lines ?


edit on 1/31/2011 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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to me it would only seem by remembering and being educated in the history of the United States that it indeed was the Christian ideas which made this all possible for us.

I think the reformers we're cool as heck if you ask me...



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 

my argument only states that the "ideals" of the Nation are rooted in Christianity...



I'm willing to listen to the evidence which supports your case.
---



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
to me it would only seem by remembering and being educated in the history of the United States that it indeed was the Christian ideas which made this all possible for us.

I think the reformers we're cool as heck if you ask me...


Which christian ideals and how so?
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posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
-Treaty Of Tripoli, Article 11. Ratified unanimously without debate June 7, 1797
here you would seem to need to go back a little further and realize that it was indeed the ideals of the Protestant reformers which gave rise to our separation and Declaration of Independence from Great Britain... the reformers chose not to be ruled by the British Church State but had their own ideals of the truth, which we got our hands on from William Tyndale and helped along by Martin Luther.


"One of the great strengths of the United States, is ... we have a very large Christian population -- we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. "
Barack Obama, April 2009
your words here would seem to be inaccurate or falsified ? (see video in above post for the actual words spoke by Obama in his speech)

great post ! but no S&F for you...



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 

my argument only states that the "ideals" of the Nation are rooted in Christianity...



I'm willing to listen to the evidence which supports your case.
---

the evidence is all around you...

btw I looked up Masonic Egalitarianism and found no such reference of the two words combined... I guess this too is a created word to be used at disposal ? on the other hand I did check wiki and found only reference to Christianity concerning Egalitarianism.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 31 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by Condemned0625
 


Really? You do understand that the purple symbol used in your little avatar space is SATANIC? America is indeed a secular nation. It is governed by the '...god of this world...', or '...nature's god...', who goes by other names, for example, Horus, who is represented as the eye in the capstone on top of the Egyptian pyramid on the one dollar bill!



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