Birds Falling From the Sky Not Unusual

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Crabs dying of hypothermia? You mean the same crabs as the ones in the article right? The ones that even make their habitat at the norwegian coast? You do realize that the average winters in Norway are as harsh if not harsher when compared to the winter the UK experienced this year right? Norway to my knowledge has never reported anything like what happened in the UK.. logically if those crabs were sensitive to extreme cold, Norway would be reporting on this on a yearly basis. And the quoted article from the UK would have referenced this if it were aplicable.
I can understand it if you simply dont want to wrap your mind around this and rather accept a statement from a renowned scientific community but if it stinks it stinks...
And all these mass-dying of animals all over the world creates a solid picture comparable to the bird in a coalmine. When the bird dies, the humans would do wise to take heed...

You are correct. That explanation is pure speculation. Yet, the phenomenon is most certainly natural. What is there to wrap my mind around? Paranoia? Unfounded speculation? Again, I'll stick to science. You...well, you can do whatever it is you do. No one is stopping you.

It was actually claimed in a news feed that these birds couldn't have been killed by a storm because they would have been battered until unrecognisable, also the poisoning was ruled out because the birds stomachs were empty and fireworks were ruled out because a lot died AFTER new years, long after any fireworks went off.

Also i could probably understand a bit more if it was an isolated incident but its not, its world wide and not just birds aether, all types of animal are just dying of unexplainable deaths, the best they can do is suspect it was the cold, but then again we have had much worse cold spells before and not had this amount of animal death.

by the way, as for the crabs, im from the UK and in the past we had terrible cold weather like now but we didn't ever had crabs dying.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Well if we'd start the discussion of what is wise then I'd say the route you're taking is better in every way. In the end I can eat myself up over this but I wont be able to change a thing, no matter what will come our way. However I find it so much more interesting to be "in the know". I can completely understand why you would choose to believe this to be a naturally occuring thing over being skeptic about the explanations given to the masses so far.

Its just that.... thats so boring

But seriously, until we hear of a plausible explanation for these events, something a layman could understand that is.. I am going to keep an open mind and take every possibility into account. And you have to admit, this whole mass-dieoff phenomena is quite puzzling isn't it? Especially the time-frame in wich this is all happening

Originally posted by EricLintScD
by the way, as for the crabs, im from the UK and in the past we had terrible cold weather like now but we didn't ever had crabs dying.

edit on 6-1-2011 by EricLintScD because: (no reason given)

Here is a study from 1966 discussing hypothermia in crabs. You must have access to view the paper though.

www.sciencedirect.com... ch&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1598602314&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=97ba e9ace65740fcf823808870fd5ccf&searchtype=a

So, we know it can and has happened. Only difference is that it happened along the shores of the UK this time. Unusual? yes. Outside the realm of a natural event? no.

Originally posted by faceoff85
And you have to admit, this whole mass-dieoff phenomena is quite puzzling isn't it? Especially the time-frame in wich this is all happening

Certainly it's puzzling. As is life in general. Life itself is a mystery, thus I try to stick to the theory that the simplest explanation is likely the correct one. Otherwise I would drive myself insane with speculation....mostly unwarranted.

Now, when crowds of people start mysteriously dropping dead in concentrated areas....all bets are off

Exactly....
The new fear trend

don't fall for it
don't create threads about it
its not serious yet

I disagree. You argue that there are mass deaths of birds happening every year, so therefore, ATS members have blown a natural occurance into a conspiracy theory. Then go on to give examples of one species and one location incidents of mass deaths to support this. THIS IS NOT WHAT IS HAPPENING. In the last several days, GLOBALLY, mass deaths are occuring of various birds, fish, and animals. Then the statistics...16 die-offs in the last 30 years. So, what an average of 2 a year? How many have happened in the last week? At least 6-7? The article ends with an example that happened 107 years ago? Which once again was an example of one species and one location. AND, furthermore, if these deaths normally go unnoticed that means that in addition to what has been reported there are more deaths that remain unknown.

hmmmmm, for being a historically common occurrence, where are the records, the numbers, the 'events', as they were?
my first clue was 'discovery' did the story --- talk about msm manipulations.
second clue -- lots of generalizations.
third clue -- best example quoted = estimate (lapland longspurs).
and i sure hope others caught this phrase as well

Most of the time, when many animals die at once, they do it far from our daily lives in fields, caves, forests or national wildlife refuges, where animals often live at unusually high concentrations, and diseases can spread rapidly.

could someone explain why this is even relevant.

This event is not like 'most'. This is event is world-wide. These previously supposed occurrences are not even documented or referenced in the story.

And lastly, of all the mass die-offs i've researched, none have been recorded with similar location variables, within a specific species, or with similar injury patterns in most, if not all, of the various locations. Events like these have never been recorded, witnessed or documented for any comparisons of any kind. what a 'push' this story is.

Originally posted by Honor93
hmmmmm, for being a historically common occurrence, where are the records, the numbers, the 'events', as they were?

Scientific journals, such as Ibis referenced in the OP source article:

In a review study published in 2007 in the journal Ibis, researchers looked through European and North American bird journals and other references dating back to the late 19th century. They found frequent reports of deaths of birds in the hundreds, thousands or more.

and i sure hope others caught this phrase as well

Most of the time, when many animals die at once, they do it far from our daily lives in fields, caves, forests or national wildlife refuges, where animals often live at unusually high concentrations, and diseases can spread rapidly.

could someone explain why this is even relevant.

It is relevant because it establishes the fact that these incidents usually occur away from the visibility of humans. Thus, the average joe would have no idea how frequently this occurs.

This event is not like 'most'. This is event is world-wide. These previously supposed occurrences are not even documented or referenced in the story.

Certainly, this is somewhat puzzling; however, these incidents all seem to be occurring at or above a certain latitude, which also happens to be experiencing some of the coldest temperatures and hazardous weather in recent times.

And lastly, of all the mass die-offs i've researched

What research have you done? any field work? any lab analysis? any time spent in a library? Or is your definition of research centered around google search terms and youtube videos? Please tell me you have done actual research, as I would love to give it a look.

I completely agree with Aggie. The exact same is true in my specialization (meteors/meteor showers) - large meteors happen all the time, but because most occur over unpopulated areas, or during daylight, most people go their whole lives without seeing a major event. Then when they are reported on ATS, those with no real knowledge of how often these events occur start doing their chicken-little impressions.

Other similar examples can be found throughout nature too... How many people here have seen a nova/super-nova? Not many is my bet, and yet in the great scheme of things, they are relatively common events, and are occurring all the time, unseen by the vast majority.

Thank you Aggie Man for pointing out what the vast majority seem to be overlooking!

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by Honor93
hmmmmm, for being a historically common occurrence, where are the records, the numbers, the 'events', as they were?

Scientific journals, such as Ibis referenced in the OP.

and i sure hope others caught this phrase as well

Most of the time, when many animals die at once, they do it far from our daily lives in fields, caves, forests or national wildlife refuges, where animals often live at unusually high concentrations, and diseases can spread rapidly.

could someone explain why this is even relevant.

It is relevant because it establishes the fact that these occurrences usually occur away from the visibility of humans. Thus, the average joe would have no idea how frequently this occurs.

This event is not like 'most'. This is event is world-wide. These previously supposed occurrences are not even documented or referenced in the story.

Certainly, this is somewhat puzzling; however, these incidents all seem to bee occurring at or above a certain latitude, which also happens to be experiencing some of the coldest temperatures and hazardous weather in recent times.

And lastly, of all the mass die-offs i've researched

What research have you done? any field work? any lab analysis? any time spent in a library? Or is your definition of research centered around google search terms and youtube videos? Please tell me you have done actual research, as I would love to give it a look.

Ibis reports no such records anything like this current event cycle.
good reference -0- substance.
while it May be true that the average Joe wouldn't be aware of a Normal die-off, the scientists would be and they have no record of a Normal or Abnormal event to correlate these events from anytime in recorded history -- nice try

somewhat puzzling?? well, i guess that's better than 'a normal occurrence' ... so, please, if you agree that much ... don't put too much stock in what any msm source offers.

these incidents all seem to bee occurring at or above a certain latitude, which also happens to be experiencing some of the coldest temperatures and hazardous weather in recent times.

propaganda because temperature recording and records haven't been around long enough : www.sciencedaily.com... ... and, isn't quite a bit of the worlds land mass above the latitude of Australia? guess that would make all of the deaths in a 'polar' region according to you.
my research is none of your biz ... i share what i've learned ... i debunk BS and my references are solid ... unlike your 'discovery ' piece.

Originally posted by Honor93
Ibis reports no such records anything like this current event cycle.
good reference -0- substance.

Because Ibis is a Ornithological (bird) journal. It wouldn't make mention of other branches of the animal kingdom.

while it May be true that the average Joe wouldn't be aware of a Normal die-off, the scientists would be and they have no record of a Normal or Abnormal event to correlate these events from anytime in recorded history -- nice try

Back that statement up with something other than your opinion.

somewhat puzzling?? well, i guess that's better than 'a normal occurrence' ... so, please, if you agree that much ... don't put too much stock in what any msm source offers.

I don't put stock in MSM, I put my stock in science. I don't live in fantasy land, where opinion becomes fact.

propaganda because temperature recording and records haven't been around long enough : www.sciencedaily.com...

How far back do we need to go? Seriously, we know birds and other animals die in extreme weather conditions. And we are certainly experiencing some extremes this winter. That should be evidence enough.

my research is none of your biz

This quote sums up your credibility in a nutshell.

these types of things have been reported throughout the years. the thing is i dont ever recall hearing of so many happening in different places around the world in such a short amount of time.

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by EricLintScD
by the way, as for the crabs, im from the UK and in the past we had terrible cold weather like now but we didn't ever had crabs dying.

edit on 6-1-2011 by EricLintScD because: (no reason given)

Here is a study from 1966 discussing hypothermia in crabs. You must have access to view the paper though.

www.sciencedirect.com... ch&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1598602314&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=97ba e9ace65740fcf823808870fd5ccf&searchtype=a

So, we know it can and has happened. Only difference is that it happened along the shores of the UK this time. Unusual? yes. Outside the realm of a natural event? no.

edit on 6-1-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

The only problem with the theory these crabs suffered from hypothermia is that the water temperatures in the area is actually average for the time of year.. not only that, these waters are in the warmer part of their habitat.

So I question how possible it is for this species of crab to get hypothermia in that situation?

Map of current United Kingdom Sea Surface Temperatures based on measurements from oceanographic satellites
MAP

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Originally posted by Honor93
Ibis reports no such records anything like this current event cycle.
good reference -0- substance.
Because Ibis is a Ornithological (bird) journal. It wouldn't make mention of other branches of the animal kingdom.

ummm, nice deflection but last i checked it was the Birds that got everyones attention. and, the correlation between the global deaths of similar species isn't covered either.

while it May be true that the average Joe wouldn't be aware of a Normal die-off, the scientists would be and they have no record of a Normal or Abnormal event to correlate these events from anytime in recorded history -- nice try
Back that statement up with something other than your opinion.

do you mean this opinion? [the scientists would be] ... well, my opinion, your opinion, what's the difference and why aren't you required to back up yours? as for the rest, the first part is your opinion and the last is fact ... so what's your point here?

somewhat puzzling?? well, i guess that's better than 'a normal occurrence' ... so, please, if you agree that much ... don't put too much stock in what any msm source offers.
I don't put stock in MSM, I put my stock in science. I don't live in fantasy land, where opinion becomes fact.

by posting this article, you certainly fooled me

propaganda because temperature recording and records haven't been around long enough : www.sciencedaily.com...
How far back do we need to go?

far enough to make your statement/assumption truthful.

Seriously, we know birds and other animals die in extreme weather conditions. And we are certainly experiencing some extremes this winter. That should be evidence enough.

surprise, it's not.

my research is none of your biz.
This quote sums up your credibility in a nutshell.

hahahahahahahaha, yet another who values 'credibility' on a conspiracy site ... now that's rich.
my research is mine, what makes you think you have any right to it, whatsoever?

you keep following msm ... i'm watching to see just where the 11ft, plus compounded inertia, amplified by the additional magnetism brought on by Niburu (especially at sunrise) and ever advancing over the last 90+ days, settles. that's much more fascinating than this conversation, anyway. have a nice day.
ohhh, almost forgot ... the variations in the magnetosphere and earthly vibrations also have my attention ... i do have animals ... so consider it an insider source

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Well, it could be disease that killed them too. I used hypothermia as an example of how there are naturally occurring phenomenon that easily explain these die-offs. By no means do I think that the deaths are exclusive to cold temperatures. However, I did find this:

Experts believe the crabs died from hypothermia after the UK’s coldest Deecember in 120 years.

www.mirror.co.uk... zarre-animal-deaths-115875-22830580/

I think it is important to note that no one said the crabs died in the UK, only that they washed ashore in the UK. They very well may have suffered from hypothermia in colder waters to the north and the currents carried them southward.

On a side note, and totally unrelated to your post....

There is plenty of speculation and paranoia abound in numerous threads here on ATS in regards to this issue. My main point of this thread was to bring some sense and rationality on this subject. I knew it would not be well received here on ATS (as I stated in the OP), yet I created the thread for discussion of this as a natural phenomenon. Seeking input from like minded people and perhaps, just maybe, calm some of the worried folks. What I did not intend was for this to become just another in the myriad of threads running wild with speculation of doom and government cover-ups.

discovery.com ?
Sorry i don't buy the explanations from discovery or the media at all.

See my thread massive disinformation campaign in the media, your actually buying into medias version.

reply to post by Aggie Man


I understand and understood where you where coming from, however, I was pointing to the flaws in the theory being put forward this could be hypothermia.

I for one, would be happy if these incidence where natural, as in common occurrence. since that would make things a lot neater

I come from a perspective that the first thing I want to check in each incidence is if these are all "native" rather an imported/migrated species as that makes a huge difference to me..

For example the British Black honey bee thrives in conditions where the Mediterranean or hybrid honey bees are being fed sugar water or dying off in vast numbers. Mother nature vs man

And that is the first part of the question.. how many of these species have been moved from their natural habitats and therefore like the bee susceptible to major issues.

Passing that point, I am more interested in native species that are having issues like the crabs, since they should (after these millennia) be adapted to the conditions.. and in the UK that means this type of year is more natural for the native species than those of the previous decade.

So there in lies my pondering.. hope that makes sense explaining the place I am coming from

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
discovery.com ?

Sorry i don't buy the explanations from discovery or the media at all.

See my thread massive disinformation campaign in the media, your actually buying into medias version.

Actually, I'm not using the MSM (i.e., discovery.com) as my basis; rather, I am using the scientific research that they summarized. Sure I quoted that as my original source, only because I meant to put this into the breaking news and I needed a source. They also quoted scientific studies, which can be verified by hitting the library and obtaining copies of the journals. The article is nowhere near quack journalism.

What am I basing my thoughts on? Well, for starters, I have a B.S. in Wildlife Biology and am a certified wildlife biologist. I have been familiarized with mass die-offs starting back in college; even taking part in the collection and analysis of the data and specimens. I subscribe to and read numerous scientific journals, which have a plethora of information as it relates to mass die-offs due to weather phenomenon, disease, starvation, poisoning, etc. I believe that my fact based knowledge holds some weight to the discussion. Now, I'm no specialist and I am not involved in the study of these cases; however, I have yet to see a bit of convincing evidence to suggest that these die-offs are anything other than natural. Save for flocks of birds getting struck by vehicles. Certainly, poisoning may play a role, but that is still to be determined.

I think it best to stay grounded on the issue, rather than jump on the conspiracy/paranoia boat; thus I created this thread rather than interjecting my thoughts into the doom/gloom/government conspiracy threads.