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How can anyone support abortion

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posted on Jul, 29 2004 @ 02:03 PM
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If my wife/sister/mother/girlfriend wants to have an abortion, it's her damn uterus and she can decide what she wants to do with it.

You can't force someone to have an unwanted child just because YOU are religious.


Better to abort the child than allow it to be raised by someone who didn't want it in the first place.

[edit on 29-7-2004 by Jakomo]




posted on Jul, 30 2004 @ 01:38 AM
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Give me a break Jak. I can't believe you came in to add that. You still have those warnings on?



OK...

Next...



posted on Aug, 14 2004 @ 11:29 PM
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mwm1331,

the term pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. it also refers to choices in pre-planning and education. since about 60% of abortions are due to lack of birth control, if women were better educated and more birth control options made available to women of all classes and social status the number of abortions would drop drastically. the other abortions are due to rape incest and problems in pregnancy, and are a medical neccesity. i see no reason why a woman should have to die because of complications in a pregnancy, especally when the baby has no chance of living, when there is a legal medical alternative.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 12:36 AM
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Teenage,

No birth control? I'm sorry, but anyone who gets pregnant because birth control is not availible to them must be living in a cave.

I know 60% of abortions aren't performed on the growing cave woman population.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 12:58 AM
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You gotta be a real #ing idiot if:

You aren't aware of birth control
or depo provera a contraceptive/birth control/needle you take every 6 months
the morning after pill for those stupid drunken slip ups or even heat of the moment sexual encounters
and condoms

after all of this i'm pretty sure you know whats going on, if you aren't taking any form of bith control or using a condom there's gotta be some kind of subconscious voice telling you to get pregnant not to mention forgetting to use a condom... I'm sorry but you gotta know, if not, you must be real #ing retarded, and if thats the case, then I agree, please don't spawn anymore #ing retards, we got enough already, I don't need to see anymore raccoon hat wearing skunk smelling moldy cheese eating trailor park leeches...



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
If my wife/sister/mother/girlfriend wants to have an abortion, it's her damn uterus and she can decide what she wants to do with it.

You can't force someone to have an unwanted child just because YOU are religious.


Better to abort the child than allow it to be raised by someone who didn't want it in the first place.

[edit on 29-7-2004 by Jakomo]


Yes but it is a natural human right for you not to commit murder.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 10:28 AM
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I believe in whats good for the people as a whole.. not a few select groups.

I feel as if a mothers life would be better if she aborted her unborn child.. then so be it.

Why should the child have to be born into a world of poverty, drug abuse, domestic abuse, or sent to a foster home with no identity.. or just plain out uncaring. And the conservatives who are anti-abortion.... you will be crying when you have to pay the welfare benefits for that mother. So what is your solution?

I am against this entire christian movement to install a theocracy.... sort of like the ban on stem cell research. Research that could possibly save lives and help the population as a whole.. why should ones religious belief be more important than the population?



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by RedOctober90
I believe in whats good for the people as a whole.. not a few select groups.

I feel as if a mothers life would be better if she aborted her unborn child.. then so be it.

Why should the child have to be born into a world of poverty, drug abuse, domestic abuse, or sent to a foster home with no identity.. or just plain out uncaring. And the conservatives who are anti-abortion.... you will be crying when you have to pay the welfare benefits for that mother. So what is your solution?

I am against this entire christian movement to install a theocracy.... sort of like the ban on stem cell research. Research that could possibly save lives and help the population as a whole.. why should ones religious belief be more important than the population?



Well, I am against retarded people, old people, human vegetables, and homeless people.

They are a drain on people as a whole, so let's kill them. As a matter of fact, I think any kid who lives in a loveless environment, or a crack house, and abusive home, and even gets mad at their folks for not getting them an Xbox should be steered to the nearest "Mankind Betterment Facility" for immediate termination. Maybe we can feed the poor from the extracts of their bodies. Waste not, want not right?

As for the theocracy idea, I think that if that was a serious plan, it would have been enacted a couple hundred years ago before all those pesky heathens moved in.


[edit on 15-8-2004 by KrazyJethro]



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 11:20 PM
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Well conservative American ideals don't exactly call for immediate termination of everyone not making $100,000 a year and living in a big house. Not everyone lives the life you do, does what you do, and thinks like you do.

Your conservative viewpoints sound alot more like ideals Adolf Hitler would of believed in. Kill Kill Kill... kill anyone not meeting my exact specifications.

If you desire to kill mentally retarded.. or human vegtables.. that should be up to the guardians of those people... not by the corporate controlled government. Otherwise what makes our society any different than lets say the former government of Iraq.. where people are killed left and right. The United States is not an anarchy...... your idea of freedom sounds like anarchism... which simply doesen't and never did work.

Everyone is a drain on society in some factor.. why not kill everyone then.

What things are "worth" are things we name. People are not really worth anything if you throw out the factor of printed paper money and material goods. I don't subscribe to your system which puts human worth on how much paper money they are able to obtain.

I'd take even a theocracy over your death camp idea any time.

Society has people in it.. people have emotions... there are lives at stake.. people are not robots who follow a certain amount of parameters which you call "logic"

[edit on 15-8-2004 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 15-8-2004 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 15-8-2004 by RedOctober90]



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 10:47 AM
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As always Red, you confuse even yourself.

First you say this:


Originally posted by RedOctober90
I believe in whats good for the people as a whole.. not a few select groups.



Originally posted by RedOctober90
Society has people in it.. people have emotions... there are lives at stake.. people are not robots...


What ARE you for then. If it's good for people than we can eliminate what we want for the betterment of others, but not at other times?

Oh well. I'm obviously not for killing anyone, but was only furthering your first quote.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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krazy,

60% is the most conserative statistics i've heard. according to this website, www.abortiontv.com... Statesit's 95% i don't want to fight about numbers, there are a lot of abortions due to unwanted pregnancies.

and as far as the whole cave-woman theory, not everyone is taught about birthcontrol by their school or their parents, not everyone can afford birthcontrol, and not everyone has the common sence that you and i do. most doctors don't explain that the pill needs to be taken at the same exact time everyday in order to be mostly effective, and doesn't provide birthcontrol for the first month or two (depending on which pill) all i'm saying is that i think that providing young women (and men) with this "common sence" before they turn 14 and are sexually active and providing free birthcontrol for everybody would make the number of abortions drop drastically.

[edit on 18-8-2004 by teenagehousewife]



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 03:51 PM
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Well, birth control in question, just because you know about it doesn't mean anything. If you are religous you are condemed to hell for using condoms and the pill. And as said, not everyone is taught about it either due to bad parents or parents not allowing schools to teach it.

Anyways, men, abortion is about a parasite in a womans body until about the 2.5nd trimester and I for one am not going to tell a woman what to do unless I got a cup on.

And for those with religon reasons, thats nice, my religon says I have to kill you for not believeing in what I do. Does this mean I should have a law passed that says if you don't believe in my religon then you are to be killed? No, because it would be forcing religous beliefs on someone who doesn't want it, and last I heard there is something called seperation of church and state. So using religon as a reason for a law is illegal.

Also, a famous anti-abortion judge is a man who thinks women are less than men, are to be slaves to men, and can't get pregnant unless they enjoy sex meaning all rape victims who get pregnant are sluts asking for it. I like the 21st century, not the 12th century.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by mwm1331
How do you justify the so called "pro-choice" stance?


I know this thread is long - I just saw it and am jumping in cold.

Personally, I'm against abortion. As you said I think it's morally reprehensible. I mostly think its irresponsible; an unwillingness to own up to one's mistake. The easy way out. (Down the road, tho; there is a heavy emotional price to pay.)

There are also times when the life of a mother is in danger. I have no problem with that, given the woman's consent.

Politically speaking, I am not in favor of repealing Roe v. Wade. Knowing what I know about what women did before abortion was legal, I would never call for going back to that butchery. The simple fact of the matter is women will get abortions whether they're legal or not. We should at least make it safe and humane for them if they must.

The bottom line: It's between YOU and YOUR maker.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The bottom line: It's between YOU and YOUR maker.


Exactly. If you are against abortions, don't get one. I don't know how much more forcing of religious values I can take. If this continues, I forsee a civil war in this country, those who relentlessly push their religion vs. those who wish to progress as a species and leave that archaic way of thinking behind. Abortion, of course, should not be used as a form of birth control and people should think of consequences before having sex, but it's not for anybody to tell a woman she must carry a child against her will. KEEP YOUR RELIGION TO YOURSELF!



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 08:30 PM
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Here's my problem folks.

"The bottom line: It's between YOU and YOUR maker." and 27 agreed.

Well then, killing is against religion, legalize it.
Stealing is too, keep it to yourself.

The list goes on. Religion is the formula in which this society has been based.

SO, if it is between you and your maker, than anything you do is ok. What it really is, is that most find that to be a good excuse when they want to apply it.

Dead beat dads, whoa man, try using that excuse on him.

I'd go on, but you get my point. Don't want religion used against you, then don't use it to rebut a point of view.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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But you see, I was not talking about murdering another individual off the street, or not paying child support. I specifically stated it's nobody's right to force a woman to carry a child. Thats what this thread is about. It's HER body, not yours. As far as religion goes, keep trying to force it on us and see how fast things get ugly. I for one am willing to oppose it violently if need be (because history shows fundamentalists of any religion use violence to force their beliefs). It is something I am very strongly against and will NOT have these fairy tales forced on me. As for the murder of already born individuals, and other crimes, they have nothing to do with religion and are already illegal. And rightly so. How would anybody feel if a female in their family was found in an unfortunate situation where they may need an abortion (i.e. rape), and it was illegal, are you going to justify what you call the murder of an innocent party in that situation? If it's a moral issue, than it could never be justified, could it? Not to mention how many American women will end up dying in some Mexican chop shop because it's illegal in the USA.


[edit on 16-8-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by 27jd
But you see, I was not talking about murdering another individual off the street, or not paying child support. I specifically stated it's nobody's right to force a woman to carry a child. Thats what this thread is about. It's HER body, not yours. As far as religion goes, keep trying to force it on us and see how fast things get ugly. I for one am willing to oppose it violently if need be (because history shows fundamentalists of any religion use violence to force their beliefs).
[edit on 16-8-2004 by 27jd]


First off, what are you threatening me? Pretty lame.

Second, I don't know why you think that religion (which I have not used as a reason once, but you have) is the only reason to be against it. There are myraid places people get their morality, and this is a moral judgement.

I for one hope it's outlawed. Personally I am willing and ready to accept the result, and readily await the day my friend.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Here's my problem folks.

"The bottom line: It's between YOU and YOUR maker." and 27 agreed.

Well then, killing is against religion, legalize it.
Stealing is too, keep it to yourself.


Different subjects altogether.


The list goes on. Religion is the formula in which this society has been based.


Although the Judeo Christian view was one of the philosophical cornerstones of this nation's founding, it wasn't put into any law. Another of the cornerstones is the separation of church and state. NO ONE has the right, legal or otherwise, to impose their religious views/values/strictures upon any one else. Like it or not, that's the way it is and always has been here in the USA (thank God). I'm saying this as a Christian, too, btw. When the founders came here they were fleeing from religious tyranny, remember?


SO, if it is between you and your maker, than anything you do is ok.


I don't recall anyone saying that.
What's between God and myself is between God and myself. No one else. No one but me will stand before God and answer for what I have done.






[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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Am I religous? Yes.
Is my belief in reference to abortion based on my religon? No.

I read the bible and I see no teachings by Jesus ever mentioning abortion. The ten commandments say thou shalt not kill, but almost every religon exept satanism and islam say that. (satanism says dont get caught and Islam says only kill non muslims)
But thats not why I am against abortion. I believe people have the right to kill themselves. I believe that everyone has a right to thier own body, including the fetus. If a pregnant woman wishes to cut off her arm she has a right to, but if she has an abortion she is infringing on the rights of the fetus.
Whle some say it is no more than a "bundle of cells" That is only true for an amazingly short period of time. As medical Science, I, and many other posters have shown, far earlier than the 3rd month the fetus has a functioning brain, heart, lungs, nervous system, and by reacting to its environment has shown cogntive activity. If it thinks, how can you say it is not alive, and doesn't deserve the same basic unalienable rights as every other American.
The urge to protect children is the single strongest biological urge in the human species. People will risk thier own lives to save children they do not know. For an animal to risk its own survival to protect someone who offers no benefit to thier own genetic continuance shows how powerful this basic biological urge is. And yet we are using the sterlity of the medical industry to violate this most basc instinct.
The more medical science learns the earlier we push back the boundaries of the emergence of the same activities we normally (in fact in any extra-womb organism) use as an indictor of life. We kill cattle for food and its O.K. because they are not sentient. We only kill other human beings for self defense, or in war. But given that this fetus can hear, see, think, and feel how can we not label its execution murder?



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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It is not a question of whether abortion should or should not be done. It will occur, either legally, or illegally. So the question becomes, does one want the abortion to be performed in a hospital/docors office, or an alley/apartment? Face it, alcohol, drugs, speeding, prostitution,
abortion.....you can outlaw all of 'em, but you ain't gonna stop 'em from happening.



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