Moon Landing - Future Missions and a New Enemy -

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a702c92088ca.jpg[/atsimg]

Hello All,


First of all i want to make sure i have no problem with facts and statements etc that we did goto the Moon during the Apollo missions. I may have been swayed from time to time by theories etc but i pretty much agree we did go there.

Here is a clip i watched recently - i could not embedd.

www.abc.net.au...


I will also provide some further information and off site content for anyone interested in this subject.

I will give a breif introduction:

Basically during the Apollo mission's dust detectors were created to be placed on the Lunar surface during the missions.

The detectors were succesfully placed on the surface on the Apollo 11,14 and 15. One was flown on the Apollo 13 mission but did not make it to the Moon and destroyed on re-entry.

Currently all the data from those detectors which ran for about 2 years after the missions that placed them there is in storage and for the most part currently un-readable as they are recorded on magnetic data tapes.. ahh the good old days


The mission now is to find a working IBM magnetic tape reader from the 70's to translate all the data.

Approx 1% of the data was translated onto readable paper charts and is currently all we have of the 100's of tape drives in storage.



What has been noted so far is it seems the ''electro-static'' dust seems to more dangerous or ''sticky '' during the Lunar day and at it's worst at Lunar miday.

That is a brief overview of this new enemy we have to face on the Moon. Somthing that needs to be taken very seriously when considering further manned flights or a permanent base on the Moon.

A set of original NASA data tapes from moon landings in the 1960s now held in Western Australia may hold the keys to overcoming problems associated with the effects of lunar dust on future moon missions.

The 177 original (or primary) data tapes - most likely the only tapes of their kind in the world - contain the results of experiments using dust detectors on the surface of the moon by Apollo 11, 12 and 14 astronauts. They have been recently supplemented by secondary data from Apollo 12, 14 and 15 missions.

www.news.uwa.edu.au...


www.sciencedaily.com...

To make matters worse, lunar dust suffers from a terrible case of static cling. UV rays drive electrons out of lunar dust by day, while the solar wind bombards it with electrons by night. Cleaning the resulting charged particles with wet-wipes only makes them cling harder to camera lenses and helmet visors. Mian Abbas of the National Space Science and Technology Center in Huntsville, Alabama, will discuss electrostatic charging on the moon and how dust circulates in lunar skies.

www.abc.net.au...


www.lpi.usra.edu...


In regard to the IBM magnetic tape reader - if anyone has a working IBM 726 ( see link ) handy i am sure NASA would be greatfull

www-03.ibm.com...

I don't doubt we went to the moon. I've researched this for years, and it seems that although we did go, MANY of the photos we have been given from the mission are without a doubt not actual photos from the moon, but rather re-creations, such as the image above.

The reason for re-creations? Obviously to hide what would actually be seen on the surface. Take the photo above and many like it.. These photos are shot almost as if they were done by a professional photographer, meanwhile others are shown to be the grainier, more suitable photos you would get when using the chest attached camera the astronauts actually used, which by the way were taken without the astronauts being able to focus and/or look through the view finder.

Take the photo above, and you will see that besides the clear professional-like quality, the background mountain shot is clearly faked and/or painted in to hide the true nature of what was in the distance. You can see clearly where the surface meets the background in what can be seen as a clear defined line. Look close, and you will see that the mountains look rather smooth and almost CGI-like, unlike the surface of the moon. Yet, one has to take into account that the sheer professionalism and almost made-for-magazine quality of this photo may detail that the entire landscape is in fact nothing more than a shot from earth, on a sound-stage.

No one is saying we didn't go to the moon, but the evidence shows that there is something up there. Bases, structures and other things have been identified in countless photographs, not to mention audio from the astronauts while on the surface, speaking about these ruins and alien spacecrafts.

Look at the photos yourself, and you will see that many are edited and/or changed, as to hide the secret to the real lunar surroundings.

Best to all.

reply to post by Tvision


Yeah i know what you mean, i also beleive there is alot hidden about the Moon. I did originally start this thread to oppose all the people that think we didnt goto the Moon etc, but since i changed the title and ficused more on the dust issue.

There''s lots of good info on the Moon and it's mysteries out there.

To relate to your reply, i have looked around at many images, i do think some are from the Moon, but have been edited or photoshopped. I came across one, after adjusting lighting, highlights and shadow area's etc i noticed something very interesting in the background.
It wasnt a structure or UFO etc but you could tell the black horizon and above had been edited. It was like looking at a black surface that had been rubbed over with an eraser.

It's hard to explain but very obvious, i didnt save the image at the time but if i find it again i will post what i described.... here goes a couple hours of Lunar image searches...yawn

As per above i guess this is more a scientific look at the moon as opposed to a conspiracy standpoint..

reply to post by Havick007

What has been noted so far is it seems the ''electro-static'' dust seems to more dangerous or ''sticky '' during the Lunar day and at it's worst at Lunar miday.

Funny, the dust NEVER stuck to the LM landing pads..
Sorry, couldn't help myself...

Of course we went there, but I'm willing to bet it will be a long time before we go back..
New obstacles I hear may hinder future flights...CME's and all.

reply to post by Tvision


I don't know about the pics but there's no arguing that most seem to have a defined line between forground and background..
Very unusual in so many pics..As with the one above..

reply to post by backinblack


This is only a guess, but i would say due to there being no wind on Moon, the dust wouldnt come in contact with those parts of the lander. What i mean is once it had landed there was nothing to stir the dust up, unless an astronaut actually threw dust onto it that is.

During the decent and at touch down the booster or stabilzer rockets were blowing or pushing the dust away from the lander up untill the point it touched down.

The problem was the Astronauts were running around the surface and in some cases actually felll over and in doing so covered their suits with the dust.

I suppose the risk comes for future missions or creating a base ( a publicly known base ) in construction and this would affect the dust and whether it would hinder construction etc.

The same goes for contamination or internal or safe areas, after a moonwalk the astronaut returns covered in this dust which in turn is transfered into the Lander or base etc. In turn this could get itnto the breathing system and may be unsafe for inhalation etc.


Just theories really...

reply to post by Havick007


Maybe it's just static..Easy fixed..
I do find it crazy that NASA has all them data tapes but no tape deck to read them..
Only a Government agency could do something like that.

Never mind

reply to post by backinblack


Yeah it's actually really amazing, i couldnt beleive when i saw that story on Catalyst. I guess at that point in time they didnt take the dust too seriously.

Although in saying that, Neil Armstrong's first words after planting his foot on the surface, werent the iconic ones we remember today. Only seconds before he spoke the words we all remember there was something else he said, in reference to the dust.

Armstrong: I'm at the foot of the ladder. The LM footpads are only depressed in the surface about 1 or 2 inches, although the surface appears to be very, very fine grained, as you get close to it. It's almost like a powder. (The) ground mass is very fine. (Pause)

Well it was just before he made that first step....

Source: www.hq.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Chadwickus


???

What kinda post was that??

One thing that makes me laugh with the line " we gotta find the original equipment to be able to read ye olde tapes".
We live in the 21st century, we can create machines smaller and more efficient, we can COPY and recreate ANYTHING we have made before.
It's called being RETRO.
NASA need to stop looking for a machine they know to be unobtainable and recreate a machine able to read the tapes. They are afterall supposed to be intelligent people?.
I can understand if it's a private individual that holds the tapes and cannot afford to build one from scratch, but surely there would be supporters and suppliers to be in a position to help?

Just my 2 pence worth.

reply to post by Havick007


He said that BEFORE he actually stepped off the last rung of the ladder and ONTO the moon, he being on the ladder was still on the ship and therefore didn't need to say his historic line.
2nd line.

reply to post by DataWraith


Yeah i added that in at the bottom of the post. I know what ya mean

Oh hey you didnt have to write 2nd... you had a second lind

Originally posted by Havick007
In regard to the IBM magnetic tape reader - if anyone has a working IBM 726 ( see link ) handy i am sure NASA would be greatfull

Yes the dust and regolith are both nasty.

But why do they need to review the old dust tapes, it sounds like they found out what they wanted to know about the dust already:

www.lpi.usra.edu...

The Lunar Dust Detector studied the effects of lunar dust on the operation of the experiment package.

Prior to the Apollo landings, it was thought that there would be a heavy dust layer deposited on the ALSEP experiment package during lunar module ascent and possibly from other long-term sources. This experiment was designed to measure this dust layer deposition and was performed on Apollo 11, 12, 14, and 15. It was housed in the ALSEP central station and measured the power output from a set of solar cells. The dust accumulation proved to be much lower than expected, and the results from this experiment were also used to monitor the long-term degradation of solar cells from radiation and thermal effects. This was considered to be an engineering rather than a scientific experiment.

So the dust accumulation proved to be much lower than expected. What else do you want to know and why do we need to read the tapes?

Originally posted by Tvision
I don't doubt we went to the moon. I've researched this for years, and it seems that although we did go, MANY of the photos we have been given from the mission are without a doubt not actual photos from the moon, but rather re-creations, such as the image above.

Look at the photos yourself, and you will see that many are edited and/or changed, as to hide the secret to the real lunar surroundings.

Richard Hoagland makes claims like that and most people have figured out he's not playing with a full deck.

Just because you think the photos were made in a studio doesn't mean that's true. I've never seen any evidence for this and you sure didn't provide any.

Regarding altered images, yes NASA does alter some images for PR purposes, but they usually have the unaltered image available also if you look for it. They actually have different versions of the same photos in some cases. As far as I can tell most of the edits are to make the photos more attractive, with color enhancements and such, but when you find the original unaltered photo you find out that they weren't hiding any lunar bases with the edits.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Well for a start how much do you think it would cost to re-create a mag tape reader compaired to finding and repairing an original....it's all about money remember.... Stupid world we live in hmmmm.

Also Hoagland may be more educated than you beleive, i think in desperation he may have gone too far on some points, the can be said for lear etc but some of his points are valid and he has been doing this alot longer than many of us.....

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Also, i have sen some odd images, although some will argue paradoilia blah blah which puts me off sharing or posting... But do you think NASA would share or hide an Alien base ( if one was indeed found? )

Come on.....

reply to post by Tvision


Actually what you described is perfect for a zero atmo, low G world. And you wouldn't need to fake the photos. Just turn somewhere without such things. And clearly the man reflected in the helmet is using a camera he can adjust and, take a real photo with. The reason for the different qualities is obvious. Different cameras. As for the line. It's a mound. There's plenty without such a line and same quality. View distance also. You get the same thing in professional photos. It's called Depth of field.


farm4.static.flickr.com...

Without commenting on actual photographs on this thread but responding to the actual moon landing, I till feel that the original moon landing and moonwalk was faked to win the Space Race with the Soviet Union but further moon walks were genuine.

reply to post by Atlantien


That makes no sense, considering they were all so close together. You could've won the space race if you left them there to die.